Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[Mr.Grinch]

what's the point of having an awesome 6th man bargs when every minute he's on the court we're still gonna be stuck with a weak ass rebounding/defending bargs. whether he's scoring from the starting line-up or scoring from the bench, he's still a liability out on the court.

also, how will a defensive center help bargs when the defensive center is gonna be either giving up his own assignment or fouling out from trying to cover bargs man. bargs covering power forwards, seriously?

Bargnani can guard any player well one on one. I just think he needs to be more motivated next season and he'll be fine at power forward.

[Tim W.]

Bargnani can guard any player well one on one. I just think he needs to be more motivated next season and he'll be fine at power forward.

5 years of history says differently.

[KingRaptors]

Bargnani can guard any player well one on one. I just think he needs to be more motivated next season and he'll be fine at power forward.

I don't see how moving Bargnani to the 4 would make him more effective, as a big man you are REQUIRED to provide help-side defense and grab rebounds regardless if you are a 4 or 5. He's already defensively challenged in grabbing rebounds, why would you make him guard opposing teams power forward... bargnani just does not have the lateral quickness to guard opposing 4's ala Bosh, West, etc.

[pesterm1]

I think this thread brings up a few good points:

1/ If you keep Bargs as a starter you need to surround him with players that hide his defensive woes.

2/ If you move him to the bench you would need a solid defensive starting five to fully take advantage of his talents - like how JET and Crawford are supported.

Am I right in saying then if they decide to keep Bargs the whole team needs to be rebuilt with to cover for his weaknesses?

Your socratic methods and mind games wont work on me Jitsu. :|

[Bendit]

The first player off the bench for the Raptors was usually a big (Davis or Amir, depending on who was starting) and there have been plenty of great 6th men who were bigs, including Lamar Odom, Kevin McHale, Antawn Jamison, Cliff Robinson, Roy Tarpley, Bill Walton, all who won the 6th Man award. I think the best attribute of a 6th man is that he can come in and play multiple positions, which Bargnani can do. I do agree, though, that he's probably not suited to the role. He's always struggled when asked to come off the bench and is not the type of scorer that usually does well off the bench. He's not an instant offense guy but more a rhythm shooter.

Never would have thought Walton was a "sixth man" nor that one could be a hall of famer (McHale as well) either!! Sacrilege to mention such when relative journeymen like Bargs & Crawford are in the conversation. But you are correct about bigs having the role. I think Horry might be another one of note.

[Bendit]

Bargnani can guard any player well one on one. I just think he needs to be more motivated next season and he'll be fine at power forward.

"guard any player"? I dont think so. What do you think a Rose coming at him would do...or a Wallace...or even a Novitzki? Why wasnt he motivated this past season?

[blackjitsu]

Your socratic methods and mind games wont work on me Jitsu. :|

lol...

[nubreed000]

I guess you could say Bargs is a poor mans Jamal Crawford.

[SuperRaptor]

I cannot believe that 44% of the people on this forum grade bargnani's career as a "C" ... I think that most people here would agree that Brook Lopez is considered to be one of the best Centers in the league right now, he averaged 21 point and 6 rebounds last year, now Bargnani averaged 21 and 5 and we are pretty much saying he is the worst center in the league. The only difference between Lopez and Bargnani statistically is a half a block a game. Someone who scores over 20 points a game in the NBA and gets 5+ rebounds a game does not deserve a "C" rating.

Thats basically saying he is below average, if we talk to GM's out there you will find that his value to other teams is a LOT more than a below average player. Come on guys lets be objective here, no one is saying he is a franchise player, but he is a very gifted, talented player, who is an asset for this franchise. The team needs to do a better job of using his strengths to our advantage and making up for his shortfalls, this is a team sport, if bargnani could play average defense we still wouldnt have made the playoffs, so stop dumping on him.

Im not a bargnani lover, but I cant stand how people get all extreme, and completely write a player off.

[Tim W.]

I cannot believe that 44% of the people on this forum grade bargnani's career as a "C" ... I think that most people here would agree that Brook Lopez is considered to be one of the best Centers in the league right now, he averaged 21 point and 6 rebounds last year, now Bargnani averaged 21 and 5 and we are pretty much saying he is the worst center in the league. The only difference between Lopez and Bargnani statistically is a half a block a game. Someone who scores over 20 points a game in the NBA and gets 5+ rebounds a game does not deserve a "C" rating.

Thats basically saying he is below average, if we talk to GM's out there you will find that his value to other teams is a LOT more than a below average player. Come on guys lets be objective here, no one is saying he is a franchise player, but he is a very gifted, talented player, who is an asset for this franchise. The team needs to do a better job of using his strengths to our advantage and making up for his shortfalls, this is a team sport, if bargnani could play average defense we still wouldnt have made the playoffs, so stop dumping on him.

Im not a bargnani lover, but I cant stand how people get all extreme, and completely write a player off.

A few problems with your argument. The first is that a C is average, not below average.

Secondly, after the season Lopez had he dropped in the eyes of a lot of people. I don't think there are a lot of people that would rank him as one of the best centers in the league. I think he probably dropped out of the top ten. That's not to say he can't bounce back because he has shown he's better than he played last season, but at the moment, he's not where he once was.

Thirdly, you looked at ppg, rpg and bpg and tried to come to a conclusion based on three basic stats. I can't begin to tell you what's wrong with that. But I'll try. There's this thing that's called defense, that a player is supposed to play half of the time he's on the court. Brook Lopez is actually pretty decent at it. Bargnani is not. In fact he's extremely bad at it.

If one looks at Bargnani objectively, which you ask us to do, you'll notice that while he might get a B+ or even A on offense, he gets a failing grade on defense. Any way you look at that, I don't see how you can reasonably ranked him higher than a C.

[enlightenment]

Bargs as a 6th man could work,
He would be the highlight of our benches offence, and he would have to be playing defence against the other teams bench players, which is something you need to take into account!
I think Bargs will have an easier time being effective against jeff foster rather than roy hibbert

[Tim W.]

Bargs as a 6th man could work,
He would be the highlight of our benches offence, and he would have to be playing defence against the other teams bench players, which is something you need to take into account!
I think Bargs will have an easier time being effective against jeff foster rather than roy hibbert

Jeff Foster played 16 mpg, last season. And a 6th man generally plays at least 25 minutes a game, which would mean that Bargnani would be playing against the starting front line for probably 10-15 minutes a game. That's a long time to be at a disadvantage defensively.

[pran]

well commercial wise anyways. hahahaha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EquEeR9f6Qc

[Balls of Steel]

Scouts remain concerned about several aspects of Lithuanian power forward Donatas Motiejunas’s game.

"He doesn't really love basketball," a Central Division executive says. "He doesn't seem to appear to like to do anything that's even a little difficult. That scares you a little bit. The only thing he gets an excellent on is offensive rebounding and putbacks, and that's because he's doing it against midgets."

Said an Atlantic Division exec: "Right now, it's not even close. Vesely is a player and Motiejunas is an unknown. I've seen him play too many times when he would get two rebounds, three rebounds. He's projected in all these mocks to go top 10. I don't think so. I think he lacks passion for the game. He looks like he's got short arms. That might be a factor.

"He gets pushed under (the basket) a lot and then he reaches up. Guys are going up over him to get rebounds. He lacks fire, lacks emotion. Always has the same demeanor on the court. If you're 7 feet tall and you have any hope of coming over here you have to be, routinely, getting 10, 11 boards ... I can't get excited about him."

source

Sound familiar?

[Tim W.]

Scouts remain concerned about several aspects of Lithuanian power forward Donatas Motiejunas’s game.

"He doesn't really love basketball," a Central Division executive says. "He doesn't seem to appear to like to do anything that's even a little difficult. That scares you a little bit. The only thing he gets an excellent on is offensive rebounding and putbacks, and that's because he's doing it against midgets."

Said an Atlantic Division exec: "Right now, it's not even close. Vesely is a player and Motiejunas is an unknown. I've seen him play too many times when he would get two rebounds, three rebounds. He's projected in all these mocks to go top 10. I don't think so. I think he lacks passion for the game. He looks like he's got short arms. That might be a factor.

"He gets pushed under (the basket) a lot and then he reaches up. Guys are going up over him to get rebounds. He lacks fire, lacks emotion. Always has the same demeanor on the court. If you're 7 feet tall and you have any hope of coming over here you have to be, routinely, getting 10, 11 boards ... I can't get excited about him."

source

Sound familiar?

I read that, too, and that was my exact thought as well.

[ceez]

Id love Dano on the team.

[footarez]

we don't need another one like that,hell no

[WJF]

You haven't answered yet, do you want to watch me taking a sheet?

Classic!

[Raptors_]

5 years of history says differently.

+1

[noxleno]

I would trade Bargs for Gallo and....Mozgov...without hesitation.