View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #5461
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Nothing has to change this season because Jonas won't be here. I think Bargnani will be the odd man out at some point. Bargnani could be traded this off-season still...

  2. #5462
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    If Bargnani isn't traded before the deadline (which I still think he will be) then by next season I think it will become very apparent that Davis should be starting ahead of Bargnani. Plus Casey said he would sit anyone that isn't playing hard on defense. Unless he was lying, Davis will definitely be starting ahead of Bargnani.
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  3. #5463
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    i want to end one myth once and for all...

    Andrea Has been given royal treatment since day 1! This total nonesense.

    Firstly most #1 draft picks from this past decade were instant starters, who were given high volume playing time their rookie year regarless of their rookie mistakes. Andrea started on the bench and was often pulled for any rookie mistakes he made this despite being in the conversation for ROY up until he got injured the last quarter of the year and eventually lost out to Brandon Roy.

    For example Ed Davis was given much more of an opportunity his rookie year then Andrea.. its interesting to find out the stats how many games ed started his rookie year vs Andrea .. id bet ed started more games his rookie year then andrea his first two years..


    i can go on and on but to lazyy..

  4. #5464
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    i want to end one myth once and for all...

    Andrea Has been given royal treatment since day 1! This total nonesense.

    Firstly most #1 draft picks from this past decade were instant starters, who were given high volume playing time their rookie year regarless of their rookie mistakes. Andrea started on the bench and was often pulled for any rookie mistakes he made this despite being in the conversation for ROY up until he got injured the last quarter of the year and eventually lost out to Brandon Roy.

    For example Ed Davis was given much more of an opportunity his rookie year then Andrea.. its interesting to find out the stats how many games ed started his rookie year vs Andrea .. id bet ed started more games his rookie year then andrea his first two years..


    i can go on and on but to lazyy..
    I'm not touching the lazy reference, but Ed Davis played 24.6 mpg on a 22 win team in his rookie season, despite a lot of injuries to front court players. Bargnani played 25.1 mpg on a 47 win team, which was actually MORE than the starter (Nesterovic) at his position. And he has averaged more than 30 mpg over his career, despite consistently losing focus on defense and on the boards, on teams that were poor defensively and rebounders.

    Davis started more games because of injuries/illness to 3 front court players who were higher than him in the rotation (Bargnani- 35.7 mpg, Amir- 25.7 mpg and Reggie- 26.6 mpg, who missed 72 games between them. Nesterovic, Bosh and Garbajosa missed a total of 30 games between them. And Davis was older as a rookie, as well.

    You can pick and choose which stats you want to look at, but when you look at the big picture, your argument doesn't make sense. Sorry.
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  5. #5465
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Comparing Dre to Davis isn't the best road to prove a point on things being handed to or royal treatment. If that road is the one you want to make an argument for then the comparison of Dre and Demar would be much better if at all relevant.

    Demar was drafted onto a team that was built to win currently constructed and got handed the starting job. This was questionable with a defensive minded player in Wright to give better balance (demands less touches there for defensive purposes) or a much better offensive player (at the time) in Marco.

  6. #5466
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    When Bargnani entered the league he was pretty raw with exception of some excellent offensive skills. When you couple that with his white collar approach to the game it's clear why Sam Mitchell was resistent to giving him lots of burn in that first year. He wasn't ready and he didn't bring hustle. Ed Davis on the other hand goes out and does the blue collar work. He'll work away in the trenches, grabbing boards and working his tail off on defense. The kid is a little raw in areas but he makes up for it with hustle and determination. To summarize, Davis demanded everything he got with his play. It seemed like Colangelo had to demand everything Bargnani got because of his play...

  7. #5467
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    i know bargs has been complaining about not playing his "natural" position, but has Coangelo or Casey been on record as saying that Bargnani will play the PF position this year?

    This whole thing just doesn't make any sense. If you play Amir, Davis, and Bargs all exclusively at the 4 then the aren't enough minutes to go around. If you move Amir or Davis to C, does that really change anything anyway? You still have Amir/Bargs or Davis/Bargs on the floor together.

    It just doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure who, but another member posted something along these lines

    Bargs: "My natural position is Power Forward"

    Casey: "Great, you are now our starting Power Forward. Now go out there and guard Dwight Howard!"

    i'm soo cornfuzed right now.
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  8. #5468
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    I think your missing the point... there are 15 players on a roster.. some score some rebound some pass some run faster some jump higher.. the point is you assemble a team where players compliment each other.. for example bargnani can play inside and out which helps spread the floor for his teamates... and a defensive center would help bargnani on defense by ancoring the paint blocking shots etcc... you sign or get players who help solve a problem, you dont trade your best scorer because he's not your best defender as well
    bargnani isn't a good enough player to change the team for and his offense isn't even that good he's a 7 footer that takes extremely low percentage shots. if he shows the slightest pride in his defensive/rebounding game then maybe he wouldn't get so much flack.

  9. #5469
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    i know bargs has been complaining about not playing his "natural" position, but has Coangelo or Casey been on record as saying that Bargnani will play the PF position this year?
    You should first get them on record saying that Bargnani will play in Toronto next season. If he stays I'm not sure how they avoid him guarding centers given he's the biggest guy on the team.

  10. #5470
    Raptors Republic Starter matt's Avatar
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    Quote raptorsking wrote: View Post
    bargnani isn't a good enough player to change the team for and his offense isn't even that good he's a 7 footer that takes extremely low percentage shots. if he shows the slightest pride in his defensive/rebounding game then maybe he wouldn't get so much flack.
    Well nobody questions his offence, even though I would prefer him posting much more. Like you said, the problem lies with his rebounding and help defense, he doesn't take it as seriously as one would need to compete in the NBA. He has the tools to do it, but even HE mentions how lazy he is. Look below.

  11. #5471
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    You should first get them on record saying that Bargnani will play in Toronto next season. If he stays I'm not sure how they avoid him guarding centers given he's the biggest guy on the team.
    If he stays, and it's looking like that, there will be someone else starting as center. This does not mean Bargnani will never defend a center, but defensive duties of the big man in a man to man defense will probably be assigned on a game to game basis; if the center isn't as big an offensive threat as the power forward or not very quick Bargnani can defend the center and the new center will defend the power forward. Also, there will be some zone defense and when there is a new center, Bargnani does not need to be anchoring the defense (e.g. in a 1-3-1 zone). That should be good news for our defense.

    Btw, I expect that this will probably mean that Bargnani will grab between 1 or 2 boards more a game (still not a lot, i know). He will not be playing under the rim as much and get better possibilities to position himself for the rebound.

  12. #5472
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    Quote matt wrote: View Post
    Well nobody questions his offence, even though I would prefer him posting much more. Like you said, the problem lies with his rebounding and help defense, he doesn't take it as seriously as one would need to compete in the NBA. He has the tools to do it, but even HE mentions how lazy he is. Look below.
    In reality a LOT of people question his offense. For example:

    - too many long two's (which he shoots in the low 40's - very inefficient for a 2ptshot)
    - a dropoff in his 3point fg%
    - disappearing in games
    - not enough consistency in his shot when he's not 'hot' (not getting his legs in it, flat shots)

    In fact I think lots of people think and say we should not cater to Bargnani because he isn't good enough on offense to do this. Lots of his offensive inefficiency should be fixable, but the question is whether Bargnani has the basketball iq and will put the work in to make this happen.

  13. #5473
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    If he stays, and it's looking like that, there will be someone else starting as center. This does not mean Bargnani will never defend a center, but defensive duties of the big man in a man to man defense will probably be assigned on a game to game basis; if the center isn't as big an offensive threat as the power forward or not very quick Bargnani can defend the center and the new center will defend the power forward. Also, there will be some zone defense and when there is a new center, Bargnani does not need to be anchoring the defense (e.g. in a 1-3-1 zone). That should be good news for our defense.

    Btw, I expect that this will probably mean that Bargnani will grab between 1 or 2 boards more a game (still not a lot, i know). He will not be playing under the rim as much and get better possibilities to position himself for the rebound.
    What bothers me about this whole "Bargnani needs to play PF" argument is that Bargnani was never anchoring the defense. WHen the team played zones he was NEVER in the middle. That was either Davis or Amir. In fact, I don't think there will be very little difference in the defense because Bargnani pretty much played the PF position all of last season. He usually defended the easier frontcourt check and when the team played zone, he was on the left wing, not the middle.

    Bargnani got to play beside two good shotblockers and help defenders, in Amir and Davis, and the defense still was horrible.
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  14. #5474
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    In reality a LOT of people question his offense. For example:

    - too many long two's (which he shoots in the low 40's - very inefficient for a 2ptshot)
    - a dropoff in his 3point fg%
    - disappearing in games
    - not enough consistency in his shot when he's not 'hot' (not getting his legs in it, flat shots)

    In fact I think lots of people think and say we should not cater to Bargnani because he isn't good enough on offense to do this. Lots of his offensive inefficiency should be fixable, but the question is whether Bargnani has the basketball iq and will put the work in to make this happen.
    I questioned when people would call Bargnani a great scorer (I think he's a good one), but I have no problem with his offense. It's just not one that should be the first or second option. THe problem I have is that it's the only thing he does well. And actually the only thing he even does adequately.
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  15. #5475
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  16. #5476
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    Quote Rapzilla wrote: View Post


    Come on, man! Be the best! You can do it! *Happy Gilmore guy*
    And no mention of Primo?

  17. #5477
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    lol @ people giving him an F..

  18. #5478
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    I think they are saying "Budapest" not "be the best". Check it out from 1:11 on. And judging from everyone's accent it could be in Hungary.
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  19. #5479
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    bargs will be effective next year because his offense will make up for his lack of defense. not saying he will be better defensively, but his offense will make up for his lack of defense so i think he will have a positive impact
    Last edited by Mr.Grinch; Thu Jul 14th, 2011 at 11:53 AM.

  20. #5480
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    Quote Mr.Grinch wrote: View Post
    bargs will be effective next year because his offense will make up for his lack of defense. not saying he will be better defensively, but his offense will make up for his lack of defense so i think he will have a positive impact
    As opposed to last year when his offense didn't make up for his lack of defense?
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