View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #5721
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    Bargs even said on his Twitter that the team was too young, so even he knows. I think they're playing greece today so this will be the real challenge.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  2. #5722
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    It is not about who he is playing (for those of you who are claiming his competition was sub par) it is about boxing out. You want to see him boxing out no matter what, and I did not see any of that. Watching parts of the game, and watching his rebounds, he was not boxing out on every board. The majority of them were rebounds off of jumpers that just bounced towards him, which will not happen too much in the NBA because there are going to be committed rebounders going after that ball. Until I see him boxing out, committing to defense, and hustling for the ball on a rebound (which is something he did not do at all), I would have to say very little change has happened in his rebounding. What I saw that was good was playing some solid defense against a very aggressive BYU team.

    I am curious, what number of boards a game would satisfy you next year? I do not expect him to grab 9 a game, but anything near 7 a game would be a significant improvement, but does he need to do more for the Raptors to be successful?

  3. #5723
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    Toronto is a world class city. Is it Rome? I don't think he said that. There are very few cities that you would utter in the same breath as Rome...that doesn't mean you have to be an ass about it.

  4. #5724
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    It is not about who he is playing (for those of you who are claiming his competition was sub par) it is about boxing out. You want to see him boxing out no matter what, and I did not see any of that. Watching parts of the game, and watching his rebounds, he was not boxing out on every board. The majority of them were rebounds off of jumpers that just bounced towards him, which will not happen too much in the NBA because there are going to be committed rebounders going after that ball. Until I see him boxing out, committing to defense, and hustling for the ball on a rebound (which is something he did not do at all), I would have to say very little change has happened in his rebounding. What I saw that was good was playing some solid defense against a very aggressive BYU team.

    I am curious, what number of boards a game would satisfy you next year? I do not expect him to grab 9 a game, but anything near 7 a game would be a significant improvement, but does he need to do more for the Raptors to be successful?
    I've said it before, but it's not stats I'm looking for. Saying that he needs to grab this many rebounds or block this many shots kind of misses the point. What he needs to do is be committed to doing something other than score and be willing to do the little things. In 5 years in the NBA, we've seen none of that. None. That's probably a good indication that he simply isn't able to do that.
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  5. #5725
    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    I didn't compared Toronto to Rome. I just said Toronto was one of the best cities to live in the world. He is also a millionaire, so he shouldn't be too bored. Who is being an ass about what? Lighten up guys.

  6. #5726
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote East Coast wrote: View Post
    He's saying he doesn't have much free time during the season, and he keeps in touch with friends over the internet. I don't think it mean he's bored with Canada. Also, sounds like he's taking mma lessons? I couldn't picture that.
    mma would be one of the best things he could pick up. He needs an evident mean streak and a fire inside - plus JJ needs some locker room competition.

  7. #5727
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    talk to me when he's putting up big rebound numbers as RAPTOR......good optimism though; damn, why can't the NBA get their crap together?!
    Your ex came by; you can call me Jonas Valanciunas, cause I'm the king of rebounds!

  8. #5728
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    It is not about who he is playing (for those of you who are claiming his competition was sub par) it is about boxing out. You want to see him boxing out no matter what, and I did not see any of that. Watching parts of the game, and watching his rebounds, he was not boxing out on every board. The majority of them were rebounds off of jumpers that just bounced towards him, which will not happen too much in the NBA because there are going to be committed rebounders going after that ball. Until I see him boxing out, committing to defense, and hustling for the ball on a rebound (which is something he did not do at all), I would have to say very little change has happened in his rebounding. What I saw that was good was playing some solid defense against a very aggressive BYU team.

    I am curious, what number of boards a game would satisfy you next year? I do not expect him to grab 9 a game, but anything near 7 a game would be a significant improvement, but does he need to do more for the Raptors to be successful?
    I made sure to watch the video a second time before commenting on your post. Now, I am not saying Andrea will be bringing this type of rebounding to the NBA when it starts back up, but I will say this. He was boxing out, no not on every possession, but he was making contact and then going to pursue the ball. To say that the majority of his rebounds were off of jump shots and just came to him is inaccurate, he actually made an effort to go towards the ball and go and get it. He was not pursuing the ball like Denis Rodman, but he was far from flat footed either. It is this effort and attention to rebounding that has me a little hopeful that he will have a better season on the glass...it can't get any worse can it? Back to back 10 plus rebound games is nice to see, it does not mean anything yet, but it is worth following.

    To all the Andrea detractors I will ask this. If Demar had back to back games with 8 3 pointers made, even against weaker competition, would you not think that he will show an improved 3 point shot next year? Is this not at least a little similar to that?

  9. #5729
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    To all the Andrea detractors I will ask this. If Demar had back to back games with 8 3 pointers made, even against weaker competition, would you not think that he will show an improved 3 point shot next year? Is this not at least a little similar to that?
    As someone who has absolutely never been an Andrea detractor and has posted defenses of Andrea when I felt that bad arguments were made, let me answer this. I'm pretty sure DeRozan can hit lots of 3's in a row in practice and I will not be surprised if he would hit threes in a pick-up game. I would not at all be convinced he could do this in an nba game where you have actual opponents. To say a couple of months after a season has ended that a player who gets paid for basketball for probably close to 10 years (maybe 8, I haven't checked) suddenly is better at something is not something I believe very quickly. Boxing out against probably players of inferior strength, lower weight, less experience, etc. is quite something different as boxing out an nba pf or center.

  10. #5730
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    i'd love to James Johnson fight in UFC. I'm sure he'd beat the crap out of everyone.

  11. #5731
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    Quote Ambidextrious wrote: View Post
    How can you find yourself bored in one of the greatest cities in the world. The only drag is winter, its actually not that bad in Toronto. I know being from Ottawa, we have the extremes of all seasons. Very hot summers, and very cold winters, we get a lot of snow. I'm sure you know how it feels being from Alberta (depending on if you are from beautiful, warm Calgary under the Chinook or Chilly Edmonton, above the Chinook) Sure he's a little homesick, but c'mon your getting paid millions to play a sport you love. How are you ever bored? Sorry bargs we don't have it as good as you. We can't just up and leave. "HEY! BE A MAN DO THE RIGHT THING!"

    lol Russel peters is hilarious!

  12. #5732
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    As someone who has absolutely never been an Andrea detractor and has posted defenses of Andrea when I felt that bad arguments were made, let me answer this. I'm pretty sure DeRozan can hit lots of 3's in a row in practice and I will not be surprised if he would hit threes in a pick-up game. I would not at all be convinced he could do this in an nba game where you have actual opponents. To say a couple of months after a season has ended that a player who gets paid for basketball for probably close to 10 years (maybe 8, I haven't checked) suddenly is better at something is not something I believe very quickly. Boxing out against probably players of inferior strength, lower weight, less experience, etc. is quite something different as boxing out an nba pf or center.
    But we are not talking pick-up games, one game was vs. a National team and another against an organized NCAA team with players trying to prove something....not a no defense fast break game, there is a big difference. Again, I am not saying he will duplicate this in the NBA, but mentally he seemed more tuned in, and if that follows through to the NBA season it will be a benefit to him and the team. Golden State is working with Andris Beidrins mental game to help him regain his old form from 2-3 years ago, it plays a big part in a players success.

  13. #5733
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    To all the Andrea detractors I will ask this. If Demar had back to back games with 8 3 pointers made, even against weaker competition, would you not think that he will show an improved 3 point shot next year? Is this not at least a little similar to that?
    No, not at all. 3 point shooting requires good, consistent form, above all else. At this point, DeRozan hasn't shown the ability to hit the three even on an inconsistent basis. If he showed good form while shooting those 3s, then I think it's an indication that he's at least learned how to shoot them. Plus, 3 point shooting is an easily learned skill that simply takes practice. Lots of player have come into the NBA without a 3 pint shot and acquired one. It just takes practice. It's something you can do in an empty gym for as long as you want.

    Rebounding, on the other hand, is far more instinctual. It's hard to "learn" how to rebound. You can learn techniques, sure, but in the end, it's more mental than physical. Bargnani has absolutely no physical impediments to being able to rebound. As I already mentioned, he grabbed 17 against Indiana, a year and a half ago, and then went out the next game and grabbed 12 against New York. Then over the next 10 games he went out and averaged just 5.1 rpg.

    The problem with Bargnani is not that he can't rebound. It's that he can't rebound consistently. In his five years in the NBA, it's simply a skill he has never shown. And it's not a skill that easily acquired.
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  14. #5734
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    I made sure to watch the video a second time before commenting on your post. Now, I am not saying Andrea will be bringing this type of rebounding to the NBA when it starts back up, but I will say this. He was boxing out, no not on every possession, but he was making contact and then going to pursue the ball. To say that the majority of his rebounds were off of jump shots and just came to him is inaccurate, he actually made an effort to go towards the ball and go and get it. He was not pursuing the ball like Denis Rodman, but he was far from flat footed either. It is this effort and attention to rebounding that has me a little hopeful that he will have a better season on the glass...it can't get any worse can it? Back to back 10 plus rebound games is nice to see, it does not mean anything yet, but it is worth following.

    To all the Andrea detractors I will ask this. If Demar had back to back games with 8 3 pointers made, even against weaker competition, would you not think that he will show an improved 3 point shot next year? Is this not at least a little similar to that?
    I too made sure to watch the video again haha. First off, I was not saying that his rebounds were chance lol. Tim W said that he needs to be committed to something other then offense. I totally agree with that, and I did not see bargnani being committed to rebounding. He showed some attention to rebounding, but there was a lack of urgency. With the zone italy ran, he was in great position for rebounds (under the basket), but he just did not show the hustle that a committed rebounder should have. He only boxed out three times, and there were a few times under the basket where he should have but just jumped up instead. My expectations of his rebounding for this season (if we have one lol) do not rise after this game. Until he shows that hunger and hustle, he hasnt changed. What I did love though, was the offensive boards and him not giving up on offensive possesions when the rest of his team were making their way down the court.

    It is funny you bring up dennis rodman, bargnani has 5 inches, and thirty pounds on rodman, and the only difference between is one is committed to something other then offense.

    In regards to your last little statement, rebounding and three point shooting are really similar, like you need to have a good form and it needs to repeat every time. If DeMar has a good form, then I expect him to be a good shooter. Bargnani did not show good rebounding "form". The situations are different though, because this game was a strange game. In this situation where italy won 63-102 and BYU chucked three pointer after three pointer and stopped trying by the fourth, after a third quarter where they only had 9 points (to italy with 34). There were tons of misses. That and the zone that Italy played, Bargnani did not have to work for very many of his boards. Like I said, the reason he does not get games like this in the nba is because he does not work for many boards.

    This is just my opinion from what I am seeing. Maybe I am being a pessimist or you an optimist? lol.
    Last edited by Red and White; Thu Aug 25th, 2011 at 10:35 PM.

  15. #5735
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    Quote RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    Is there a box score for that game? lol proof may be required.
    Italia-Brigham Young University 102-63 (23-14, 43-36, 77-44)
    Italia. Cinciarini 7 (1/1, 1/1), Poeta 1(0/1 da tre), Mancinelli 10 (5/6, 0/1), Bargnani 17 (7/12), Gallinari 21 (4/7, 2/4), Belinelli 15 (5/10 da tre), Vitali 2 (1/3, 0/5), Maestranzi 5 (1/1, 1/1), Cusin 7 (2/2), Datome 10 (2/2, 1/4), Renzi, Carraretto 7 (3/3, 0/2). Allenatore: Simone Pianigiani
    Bringham Young University. Abouo 8 (2/7, 0/5), Cusick, Zylstra 26 (9/11, 2/7), Winder (0/1, 0/3), Rogers 3 (0/1, 1/5), Harrison 12 (2/8, 2/8), Harston 6 (2/8, 0/1), Sharp 4 (1/3, 0/1), Martineau 4 (1/1, 0/2), Allenatore: Dave Rose.
    Arbitri: Tomov (Bul), Somos (Gre), Cmikiewicz (Pol)
    Tiri. T2 Ita 26/37, BYU 17/40. T3 Ita 10/29, BYU 5/32. TL Ita 20/28, BYU 14/16. Rimbalzi: Ita 50 (Bargnani 19), BYU 34. Assist: Ita 19 (Mancinelli 5), BYU 12 (Harrison 3).
    Let's go Raptors!

  16. #5736
    Raptors Republic Rookie teoserio's Avatar
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    just for info: andrea also got 11 rebs vs greece in the final match of theat trophy and 10 vs bulgary

    Greece
    BYU
    Let's go Raptors!

  17. #5737
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    Quote teoserio wrote: View Post
    just for info: andrea also got 11 rebs vs greece in the final match of theat trophy and 10 vs bulgary

    Greece
    BYU
    Thanks, teoserio.

    Check out 1:03 in the Greece clip - maybe he has been doing some mma.

    And that first highlight (offensive rebound in the middle of 3 opponents and dunk on 2) was impressive.

    Of course the cynic in me says.............

  18. #5738
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    Quote teoserio wrote: View Post
    just for info: andrea also got 11 rebs vs greece in the final match of theat trophy and 10 vs bulgary

    Greece
    BYU
    Nice game against Greece, he hit some big shots to keep Italy in it. Nice to see his rebounding numbers stay up against a decent team, which Greece is.
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  19. #5739
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    He's looking energized and aggressive.

    Hopefully it keeps up.
    In Masai we Trust.

  20. #5740
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    Love seeing any positive news from any of our players. He's taking more heat this off season then ever before and hopefully he's taking it to heart. It's been a couple games with a good amount of boards but also seems to be more alert on the defensive end. Small sample and not looking into it too much but any good press is okay with me!

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