View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

Voters
127. You may not vote on this poll
  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
Page 309 of 527 FirstFirst ... 209 259 299 307 308 309 310 311 319 359 409 ... LastLast
Results 6,161 to 6,180 of 10537

Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #6161
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,975
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    The difference in contracts is 1 year, and $17 million. This trade wouldn't make any difference on the court though.

    The other scenario is using the amnesty on Bargnani. Would you rather have Villenueva, or an amnestied Bargnani?

  2. #6162
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,984
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default The case for one more year...... again

    By Dan Levine

    With the NBA on its way back, the local media landscape actually includes some Raptors-related content.

    And sure, there are free agents to discuss and new CBA rules to digest, but it’s quickly become apparent that Bryan Colangelo has no plans to spend much coin in the near future (Eric Koreen, National Post):

    “Let’s just say to go out and spend money [immediately] just to spend money would be probably swimming against the current idea of what the plan is all about,” Colangelo said.”

    “The plan is to acquire the right pieces, the correct pieces to keep adding to this young nucleus that we have or to put championship pieces together.”

    Regardless of what you think of that strategy/sentiment, it means that much of the spotlight will fall on the development of current players and new head coach Dwane Casey. Jonas Valanciunas is still a year away, and wins will ultimately be less important than a sense of direction and individual progression.

    Some of the more important players to follow will be DeMar DeRozan, Jerryd Bayless, Ed Davis and Amir Johnson. Davis and Johnson could battle for minutes at the power forward spot, while Bayless will look to prove he can handle the starting point guard position. DeRozan is up for an extension at the end of the season and 2012 will be an important year for him.

    Still, none of these players present the quagmire that is Andrea Bargnani.

    Entering his sixth season, Bargnani seemingly presents as many question marks as he did on draft day. Inconsistent defense and questionable effort are hallmarks of his game, but still, Bargnani has the ability to score at an elite level for a big man. And so, the Raptors continue to look for ways to win with him in the lineup, despite countless frustrating moments along the way.

    Many fans want Bargnani gone now. Others wanted him gone yesterday, or three seasons ago. Through it all, we often heard that each season was Bargnani’s “now or never” campaign, only to see him return to his starting role despite disappointing results. But 2011/2012 appears to actually, really be Bargnani’s last chance to prove himself in Toronto.

    As Tim Chisolm writes:

    “One of the reasons that the Raptors hired Dwane Casey as their head coach was so that he could try to hide Andrea Bargnani on defence the same way that he hid Dirk Nowitzki in Dallas. If Bargnani can be so hidden, then his place in Toronto’s future may be cemented. If he cannot be, then the Raptors need to divest themselves of his services. They have to see him play under Casey, though, to know one way or another.


    So why the urgency? Because no player on the roster requires as much compensating for as Bargnani; and if Colangelo is to make roster alterations to continue this rebuilding process, he needs to know if Bargnani is a piece worth compensating for anymore or not. This season was meant to be a freebie of sorts for Casey and Colangelo; a year where everyone knew losing was inevitable but they could tinker with their roster makeup before getting a windfall of cap space, a potentially dynamite draft pick in a loaded draft, and the arrival of the centre of the future, Jonas Valanciunas. After next summer, the expectations are going to heat up, and they can’t afford to continue assessing Bargnani in that environment. By next summer they need to know – one way or another – what they are doing with him, and they need this season to figure out what the answer to that question is.

    Chisolm nails this one right on the head. With the Raps expected to completely bottom out this season (if they hadn’t already), there is a mostly pressure-free environment to develop players. Bargnani is out of excuses at this point, and it will be interesting to see whether he can improve under coach Casey, or whether fans will be subjected to more of the same. If Bargnani can really be hidden on defense, it will make it much easier to appreciate his offensive contributions. On the other hand, it may be impossible to properly contend with a defender as putrid as Bargs.

    Take this next link with a grain of salt, but Ryan Wolstat of the Sun reports that Bargnani has been working hard on his game during the lockout, including recent sessions in Toronto with personal trainers. As Chris Rock would say, “Want a cookie?” This should be expected from Bargnani… but it’s still nice to see after years of laziness.

    Source


    The best case scenario will probably be Bargnani having a stellar individual year as the Raptors are brutal and he fetches some assets at the trade deadline or on draft day.


    I'm torn. In one breath I can see Bargnani shocking everyone (well, maybe not Tim lol). But in the other breath I can see Bargnani continuing to be, well, Bargnani.


    In the end I can see either way leaving Toronto in a good position moving forward to build a true contender.

  3. #6163
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,975
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    The worry is that Bargnani doesn't improve (much) under Casey, and lowers his trade value to the point that Colangelo doesn't pull the trigger on any future trades.

  4. #6164
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,984
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    The worry is that Bargnani doesn't improve (much) under Casey, and lowers his trade value to the point that Colangelo doesn't pull the trigger on any future trades.
    Some rational thinking is needed when thinking about Bargnani's trade value and Colangelo's ability to make a trade.


    Think about Turkoglu. Think about how awful he played. Think about how out of shape he was. Think about how difficult he was. Think about he was 31 in the summer of 2010. Think about the scathing remarks from Turkoglu in early June 2010.

    Now realize Turkoglu's remaining 4 years and over $40M was traded for Barbosa who was a cheaper and shorter contract as well as a better player.


    While Bargnani has his flaws he is nowhere near the bad contract or fading talent Turkoglu is and was.

    If Turkoglu can be traded for value, Bargnani will most definitely return value.

  5. #6165
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4,939
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Source


    The best case scenario will probably be Bargnani having a stellar individual year as the Raptors are brutal and he fetches some assets at the trade deadline or on draft day.


    I'm torn. In one breath I can see Bargnani shocking everyone (well, maybe not Tim lol). But in the other breath I can see Bargnani continuing to be, well, Bargnani.


    In the end I can see either way leaving Toronto in a good position moving forward to build a true contender.
    Well the season is here and he is too...so we wait. I figure by feb-Mar we shall all (at least most of us) have an opinion whether Casey and possibly a true centre was able to make a difference/uplift his game. Truly his last chance here.

  6. #6166
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    11,941
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think they should move the guy when the right offer comes along. I think one day it'll happen and it'll seem like it was out of the blue because that's how Colangelo operates. He doesn't show his hand. He could be shopping right now for all we know.

  7. #6167
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,975
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Some rational thinking is needed when thinking about Bargnani's trade value and Colangelo's ability to make a trade.


    Think about Turkoglu. Think about how awful he played. Think about how out of shape he was. Think abo
    ut how difficult he was. Think about he was 31 in the summer of 2010. Think about the scathing remarks from Turkoglu in early June 2010.

    Now realize Turkoglu's remaining 4 years and over $40M was traded for Barbosa who was a cheaper and shorter contract as well as a better player.


    While Bargnani has his flaws he is nowhere near the bad contract or fading talent Turkoglu is and was.

    If Turkoglu can be traded for value, Bargnani will most definitely return value.
    I realize Bargnani's contract is nowhere near as bad as Turk's, but I was more speaking about colangelo's state of mind. Trading Turk was a no brainer. Getting anyone in return would've been seen as a relative success. But in Bargnani's case, there's the risk of colangelo over valuing bargnani (especially after a poor showing under Casey), and thus being reluctant to pull the trigger on a trade thinking he can't get equal value in return

  8. #6168
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,984
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I realize Bargnani's contract is nowhere near as bad as Turk's, but I was more speaking about colangelo's state of mind. Trading Turk was a no brainer. Getting anyone in return would've been seen as a relative success. But in Bargnani's case, there's the risk of colangelo over valuing bargnani (especially after a poor showing under Casey), and thus being reluctant to pull the trigger on a trade thinking he can't get equal value in return
    I see.

    We'll have to disagree on our thoughts of Colangelo's thought process should he decide it is time for Bargnani to go.

  9. #6169
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,984
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Bargnani talking the talk

    The Eurobasket experience itself could turn out to be the perfect warm-up for Bargnani. The head coach of the Italian national team is Simone Pianigiani whose club team, Montespaschi Siena has been the class of Italy for the past half dozen years.

    Pianigiani may not be a Dwayne Casey coaching clone, but to hear Bargnani tell it their philosophies are very close.

    “Siena is known for its defensive play,” Bargnani said. “They have won the past six championships in Italy because of its defence.”

    Bargnani has never played for Casey but he seems to know a season where defence is stressed awaits him and he says he’s fine with that.

    “I think that’s great,” he said. “Our biggest problems in the past were with defence. We don’t have a problem scoring the basketball. It’s going to be a great thing for all of us.”
    Source

    I have edited the last paragraph to better reflect the true meaning which was lost in Andrea's mental translation from Italian to English:

    “My biggest problem in the past was with defence. I don’t have a problem scoring the basketball. It’s going to be a great thing for me.”

  10. #6170
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,975
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Maybe Bargnani as a PF isn't such a certainty after all:

    As for his own expected move back to his natural position of power forward, Bargnani said it was still too early to talk about it.

    I don't know. We're still talking about possibilities," Bargnani said pointing out that the collective bargaining agreement still isn't signed off on. "It's tough to talk now because we really don't know.

    "I'm just very excited to start. Whatever it is going to be, it's going to be," he said.
    http://m.lfpress.com/sports/basketba.../19061706.html

    If Bargnani really is in such great shape at the moment, his trade value should theoretically be higher now than it would be when scouts disect his game once real games start. The time to trade Bargnani is now.

  11. #6171
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Bargnani was never explosive to start with...




    (especially that dunk in the 2nd vid at 1:12) Ya, not explosive my ass.
    Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Sat Dec 3rd, 2011 at 11:24 PM.

  12. #6172
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,734
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    There was nothing explosive about those highlights at all. Explosive is someone like dwight howard, Bargnani is no where close to that. We don't have very many explosive players on our team. We have DeMar who is explosive some nights, Jerryd bayless some nights and James Johnson.

  13. #6173
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    There was nothing explosive about those highlights at all. Explosive is someone like dwight howard, Bargnani is no where close to that. We don't have very many explosive players on our team. We have DeMar who is explosive some nights, Jerryd bayless some nights and James Johnson.
    How is that not explosive for a 7 footer?


  14. #6174
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,734
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    your turning this into a bargnani thread calm down man.

  15. #6175
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    All the threads on this forum turn into a Bargs thread. lol. You still haven't said how he's not explosive... Howard is great but Barg is explosive (or at least was, much less now)...

    Anyways, back on topic...

  16. #6176
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Trying to steer this away from Bargnani, I think this debate is an interesting one. To me, there's a difference between athletic and explosive. I think a guy like Bargnani, or let's say Valanciunas, is athletic, but not explosive. To me, explosive is someone like DeRozan, who obviously has plenty of those fast twitch muscles. He can explode off the ground. Valanciunas is athletic because he's extremely fluid and coordinated for a guy his size. I agree Dwight Howard is explosive. He gets up quickly and gets up high. Tim Duncan, on the other hand, isn't explosive. Duncan is, or to be more precise was, quick and agile. Same goes for Dirk. No one is going to say he's explosive, but for his size, he's very agile, fluid and coordinated. You don't have to be explosive to be athletic.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  17. #6177
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Trying to steer this away from Bargnani, I think this debate is an interesting one. To me, there's a difference between athletic and explosive. I think a guy like Bargnani, or let's say Valanciunas, is athletic, but not explosive. To me, explosive is someone like DeRozan, who obviously has plenty of those fast twitch muscles. He can explode off the ground. Valanciunas is athletic because he's extremely fluid and coordinated for a guy his size. I agree Dwight Howard is explosive. He gets up quickly and gets up high. Tim Duncan, on the other hand, isn't explosive. Duncan is, or to be more precise was, quick and agile. Same goes for Dirk. No one is going to say he's explosive, but for his size, he's very agile, fluid and coordinated. You don't have to be explosive to be athletic.


    By your definition that was explosive...

  18. #6178
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post

    By your definition that was explosive...
    Put-tey-toh - Put-tah-toh
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  19. #6179
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Put-tey-toh - Put-tah-toh
    What?

  20. #6180
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,734
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    What?
    By that he means bargnani is not explosive and he looks goofy when he dunks the ball.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •