View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    8 6.50%
  • B

    47 38.21%
  • C

    29 23.58%
  • D

    18 14.63%
  • F

    21 17.07%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #6181
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Bargnani fans think he's explosive...Bargnani critics think he's not. Case closed.

    Btw, this reasoning applies to every single aspect of Bargnani's game. One side is never going to convince the other.

  2. #6182
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    While I did chime in, I don't really see why anyone really cares that much what a player is labelled. If Bargnani is explosive or simply athletic, does it make a difference? Lots of players who I would categorize as non-explosive athletes have gone on to win the MVP (Nash, Dirk, Duncan, Karl Malone, Magic, Bird etc), so its not as if it's a prerequisite for anything. In the end, it's what a player does with the tools he is given that matters most.
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  3. #6183
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    If Bargnani really is in such great shape at the moment, his trade value should theoretically be higher now than it would be when scouts disect his game once real games start. The time to trade Bargnani is now.
    Yes, because in an amateur league like the NBA there is no way they already know anything about Bargnani at all.

  4. #6184
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Yes, because in an amateur league like the NBA there is no way they already know anything about Bargnani at all.
    This is real life, not NBA 2K11. A player's trade value can fluctuate from year to year, or even month to month (shocking, isn't it?) If Bargnani's in better shape now compared to 12 months ago, there's a good chance some GMs will be impressed by that, prior to seeing him on the court and realizing he still stinks on defense.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Sun Dec 4th, 2011 at 08:00 PM.

  5. #6185
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    I've got to agree. If he's really in prime shape, a GM might feel that he's "finally put it together" and think he can finally come close to fulfilling his potential. If he ends up playing at a similar level as before, then the illusion is gone and another excuse is out the window. I really think the longer the Raptors keep Bargnani the lower his trade value goes down.

    My only hope, if he's not traded in the offseason, is that he comes out of the gate and plays well (which I wouldn't be surprised by) then Colangelo feels it's a perfect time to part with him.
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  6. #6186
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    This is real life, not NBA 2K11. A player's trade value can fluctuate from year to year, or even month to month (shocking, isn't it?) If Bargnani's in better shape now compared to 12 months ago, there's a good chance some GMs will be impressed by that, prior to seeing him on the court and realizing he still stinks on defense.
    I don't understand how the first part of your reaction is related to my remark, so I'll quietly ingore it. My point is that you are almost, or maybe totally, talking about fooling some gm/team, who won't know what we know. That's highly unlikely.

  7. #6187
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    This is real life, not NBA 2K11. A player's trade value can fluctuate from year to year, or even month to month (shocking, isn't it?) If Bargnani's in better shape now compared to 12 months ago, there's a good chance some GMs will be impressed by that, prior to seeing him on the court and realizing he still stinks on defense.
    How can a GM see a player is in better shape now without seeing him on the court?

  8. #6188
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    How can a GM see a player is in better shape now without seeing him on the court?
    He'll probably have to rely on published newspaper articles, Colangelo's sales pitch, and "inside sources".

  9. #6189
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    He'll probably have to rely on published newspaper articles, Colangelo's sales pitch, and "inside sources".
    $40 million decisions usually require due diligence. Relying on newspaper articles and seller's sales pitch are not due diligence.

    By "inside sources", do you mean "spies" are in place in the Raptors front office or training staff?

  10. #6190
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    $40 million decisions usually require due diligence. Relying on newspaper articles and seller's sales pitch are not due diligence.

    By "inside sources", do you mean "spies" are in place in the Raptors front office or training staff?
    If, for example, Turkoglu can be traded twice within an 18 month span following his season in Toronto, perhaps due diligence isn't as important a factor as we assume it should be with some GMs.

    As for "inside sources", your guess is as good as mine. I was just poking fun at the term we hear so often in the media, without having the slightest clue on its veracity.

  11. #6191
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    If, for example, Turkoglu can be traded twice within an 18 month span following his season in Toronto, perhaps due diligence isn't as important a factor as we assume it should be with some GMs.

    As for "inside sources", your guess is as good as mine. I was just poking fun at the term we hear so often in the media, without having the slightest clue on its veracity.
    Thanks for the answer as to the "inside sources" question.

    As for the other points, we will just disgaree.

  12. #6192
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Default Bargnani to get Canadian Citizenship

    http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityne...nadian-citizen

    If this is true, and Bargnani gets traded, that's gotta suck for him.

    On the other hand, I wonder if Bargnani would go through with this if he wasn't told by management that he's here to stay for the duration of his contract.

    Speculate away...

  13. #6193
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityne...nadian-citizen

    If this is true, and Bargnani gets traded, that's gotta suck for him.

    On the other hand, I wonder if Bargnani would go through with this if he wasn't told by management that he's here to stay for the duration of his contract.

    Speculate away...
    I don't think management can guarantee to any player they won't trade them (well, unless they're their franchise player). And I think players know that.

    I did see that news. I wonder if he'd try to get American citizenship if he was traded there, or whether he truly likes Canada that much.
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  14. #6194
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    I worked in the US eight years before I obtained my Green Card. When comparing the difficulties encountered in the work visa obtention process with friends born in other countries, I think Bargnani moves makes sense whether he expects to remain a Raptor or not.

  15. #6195
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    The worry is that Bargnani doesn't improve (much) under Casey, and lowers his trade value to the point that Colangelo doesn't pull the trigger on any future trades.
    Honestly, i really dont think this year will make much of a difference on Bargnani's trade value. If he "gets it" and plays defense and rebounds, people are going to think that it's pretty much expected coz he's on a crappy team coz the Raptors are pretty much destined to do bad this year, and if he doesnt improve, well, he's the same old Bargnani. If youve been a GM in the NBA for the past couple of years, you should pretty much well know that Bargnani is more known for his offense rather than defense, so if youre willing to acquire him, then you pretty much have your mind set that you need points from him, not rebounds or blocks. And in case he does rebound and defend better this year and youre going to acquire him because he showed flashes then i dont think youre a good GM. I think logically youd want to see him maintain those improvements for another year before you acquire him based on anything else other than scoring.

    I think if he improves this year, its should be more beneficial for the Raptors rather than the team who might be willing to trade for him. If he does at least become a decent rebounder and defender, then it would be a nightmare matchup to have him and JV in the frontcourt.

  16. #6196
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Im not being a smart-ass here but everybody's calling for Bargnani to improve his defense and rebounding, and IF he does improve this season, people are still lobbying for him to get traded. Im kinda confused.

    Does it mean that if Derozan improved his defense and 3 point shooting, the Raps should trade him as well? If Amir improves his scoring, trade him? If Bayless scores 20 a night and at the same time gets 10 asts, trade him as well?

    IF and with Bargnani its always a BIG IF, does become a decent rebounder and defender along with his 20 pts a game, why would you want some other team to take advantage of that rather than your own team? Its not like he wouldnt be a fit with the current or in-the-near-future Raptors, its not like he's become a headcase like Turk or VC. Its not like he's in his 30s.

  17. #6197
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    Default Bargnani to become a Canadian (?)

    Well this is out of the blue. But according to the report heis doing it because of tax reasons? It seems odd becuase Monaco (around the corner from Italy) is a favourite tax dodge haven for sporting and musical stars.

    But welcome to Canada...eh!

    http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityne...nadian-citizen

  18. #6198
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    He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named is a destroyer of hearts. Many victims believe the only solution is to banish him and then, hopefully, their hearts will regrow.

    Written tongue-in-cheek but I think there is an element of truth underneath it all.

  19. #6199
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Most places require you to live there for a specific amount of time to apply for citizenship.

  20. #6200
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Im not being a smart-ass here but everybody's calling for Bargnani to improve his defense and rebounding, and IF he does improve this season, people are still lobbying for him to get traded. Im kinda confused.

    Does it mean that if Derozan improved his defense and 3 point shooting, the Raps should trade him as well? If Amir improves his scoring, trade him? If Bayless scores 20 a night and at the same time gets 10 asts, trade him as well?

    IF and with Bargnani its always a BIG IF, does become a decent rebounder and defender along with his 20 pts a game, why would you want some other team to take advantage of that rather than your own team? Its not like he wouldnt be a fit with the current or in-the-near-future Raptors, its not like he's become a headcase like Turk or VC. Its not like he's in his 30s.
    Two reasons we're calling for the trade of Bargnani even if he improves his defense and rebounding. Both very important.

    The first is that even if Bargnani improves, there's no guarantee it won't be temporary. He's had a history of playing well in spurts, but it's something he's never been able to maintain. Eventually, most people fall back to their old ways. Bargnani doesn't have the type of personality that would lead me to believe he has the type of intensity it takes to change the type of player he is. I've seen way, way, way too many players in similar situations as Bargnani who have never been able to turn things around for more than a season. To me, it makes sense to trade him when his value is highest, and let someone else worry about it.

    Secondly, even if Bargnani improves his defense and rebounding, will it be enough for him to be able to be the type of big man who can contribute meaningful minutes on a contender without being a liability on defense and on the boards? Amare Stoudemire is a much better rebounder and defender than Bargnani, but I still wouldn't want a guy like that on my team because he'll end up hurting you in the playoffs. Same goes for Zach Randolph and Carlos Boozer.

    To win a Championship, in the NBA, you need to be a very good defensive team, and that usually starts with your front line. If you truly want to build a Championship team, it just makes too much sense not to keep a guy like Bargnani on the team.
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