Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[NoPropsneeded]

I've been Raptors fans for 15 years. They are the only team in any pro sport I cheer for. I had season tickets for the 4 years I lived in Toronto. I was in the Philly stands covered in beer and ketchup and spit when VC went off rim in the EC semi-finals. I've suffered through Thomas, Damon Stoudemire leaving, the Babcock years, VC being traded for a bag of balls, Bosh leaving, Chris Childs forgetting how to count, the red t-shirt debacle, the Araujo era, etc., etc. Don't judge my bona fides as a fan.

As for the "talent" comment, it's pretty clear when someone says a pro team has little or no talent that they mean pro-level talent. Not talent per se. Guys I played with in high school had talent, but not NBA-level talent. Second, let me ask you a question: how many guys on this Raptors would start on any one of the 16 playoff teams last year? Bargs on some. Maybe Calderon on a couple. Who else? "This team has lots of talent". Who?

If you want to quibble on semantics, then that's okay, I'll put it this way: this team does not have enough players playing at a high enough skill level to compete with other NBA teams. A good NBA team needs at least 8 highly skilled players that range from good to elite to superstar to win. The Raptors have one (Bargs), maybe two (Calderon). Everyone else is fungible. Derozan and Davis may grow into "top 8" players but neither is there yet.

i thought you said they had no talent

[Maleko]

Great post jimmie.

[Dr. James Naismith]

Thanks, and if you know anyone looking for one... ;-)

We've done guest spots for the blog here. If you think it might interest you jimmie don't hesitate to ask.

[Arsenalist]

I'm going to start describing some of my co-workers as "mentally soft"

I am totally going to do that. Like, today.

[Nilanka]

I think its funny how these guys are saying that to be a franchise player, you have to "turn the team around completely", and "show more than scoring ability (which i think he's shown but not just "great" at it).
How can you lead a franchise turnaround when the next best scorer on your team is averaging 14 a game, on 40% shooting? How can you turn a team around when your fellow starters are a combined 39pts per game? WTF? Even Lebron cant turn this team around. Or Kobe.

I think if Bargnani shows a bit more consistency on rebounding and defense, i dont mind him being a franchise player. And i think he'll do fine as one.

Rose is getting around 16 attempts per game, Kobe 23, Durant 18 and Dirk at 15 and Bargnani, 16. So it aint like Bargnani is ball hogging and getting all the plays set for him and none for Demar or the other starters. The major difference is Rose has Deng and Boozer, Kobe has Bynum and Gasol, Durant has Westbrook and Harden and Dirk has well....thats why theyre 5-5 right now, 8th seed in the west, champions last year. You cant turn a team around with a franchise player, you need a franchise player and other good players as well, who play good.

I think the main criteria differentiating Durant, Kobe, Rose, etc. from Bargnani is their personalities. All of those guys seem like the type to say, "if we lose, I'll kill somebody". Bargnani, through no fault of his own, just doesn't have that demeanor, which can be infectious in terms of work ethic.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

I think the main criteria differentiating Durant, Kobe, Rose, etc. from Bargnani is their personalities. All of those guys seem like the type to say, "if we lose, I'll kill somebody". Bargnani, through no fault of his own, just doesn't have that demeanor, which can be infectious in terms of work ethic.

I agree, but my point was, you cant carry a franchise by yourself, no matter how good of a player you are. A franchise player doesnt just need pieces around him, he needs pieces beside him, as evidenced by teams like Miami, OKC, Chicago, etc.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Just wanted ask at what point do we stop saying he has a high ceiling and can someone maybe make a poll cause I dont know how ..... personally I think it's over and no one should say that anymore, I mean he's been in the league for 6 fcuking years now ! I think we can't say that anymore.

hahahaha is that you Tim W?? We missed you! hahaha

[Matt52]

What made Andrea really effective his first 10 games was mixing it up. Fatigue was certainly an issue but I hope when he comes back he mixes it up again (post ups, drive, mid range, 3's, curling off screens). The straight leg jump shot certainly brought back painful memories.

[heinz57]

hahahaha is that you Tim W?? We missed you! hahaha

Where is Tim Dubs???? When i came back to the board i was expecting him to be all over it with the season starting.... but he's nowhere to be found

[Matt52]

Where is Tim Dubs???? When i came back to the board i was expecting him to be all over it with the season starting.... but he's nowhere to be found

Seems he has been missing in action since the start of the season, unfortunately. There was a bit of a disagreement over you know who and he has not been heard from since.

[jimmie]

I am totally going to do that. Like, today.

You're just starting now? ;-)

@Doc: I'll keep it in mind; thanks for the offer. Like most of us, hanging out on the site is mainly for entertainment, and I'm not sure I'd have the commitment to actually take it further than that, but if the mood strikes, maybe I'll give it a shot sometime and submit something to the powers-that-be...

[Dr. James Naismith]

@Doc: I'll keep it in mind; thanks for the offer. Like most of us, hanging out on the site is mainly for entertainment, and I'm not sure I'd have the commitment to actually take it further than that, but if the mood strikes, maybe I'll give it a shot sometime and submit something to the powers-that-be...

Absolutely jimmie! Cheers

[LBF]

Seems he has been missing in action since the start of the season, unfortunately. There was a bit of a disagreement over you know who and he has not been heard from since.

he's probably calling everyone out on his blog which no one reads...

I mean, whoops.

he probably joined over at wherever that is that budahfan now posts and they compare amir and bargnani all day.

btw, it seems everytime i quote it repeats the last word of each sentence. probably means i have a virus.

[Apollo]

I'm not sure what happened to Tim. Perhaps he's waiting for Bargnani to falter before he comments on him again? That might be a long vacation based on what I've seen so far.

budahfan, haven't heard that name in a long time. He certainly would be within his rights to be dropping excessive "told ya so" comments around here if he hadn't gone MIA long, long ago.

As for the quote problem, I think it's a PC issue and not a site issue.

[Hassan]

agreed, hopefully barnes

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

I'm not sure what happened to Tim. Perhaps he's waiting for Bargnani to falter before he comments on him again? That might be a long vacation based on what I've seen so far.

budahfan, haven't heard that name in a long time. He certainly would be within his rights to be dropping excessive "told ya so" comments around here if he hadn't gone MIA long, long ago.

As for the quote problem, I think it's a PC issue and not a site issue.

hahaha i think Tim's biggest problem, and ive told him this lots of times so im not talking behind his back right now, was he always seemed to try and aim at changing people's minds about topics that he disagreed with. To me, he always seemed to tell me, youre wrong, and im right, so dont think that way. And that really irritated me at times.

Well Bargnani only had 2 rebs the other day, we still havent heard from him. He's probably using a different name now and being more subtle with his posts.

[Apollo]

Tim makes some really good contributions around here. Hope to see him back. He could be on vacation.

[irgigi]

I'm not sure what happened to Tim.

for me it seems he is not posting because he was (or he think he was, i'm not going too deep into it) accused for going offtopic, while "posting negative comments (again, i'm not the one to judge)" on Bargnani in thread called something like "If Bargnani was playing like today, would you like keep him in a team". He was prolly pissed on, and said - FU..

Tim makes some really good contributions around here. Hope to see him back. He could be on vacation.

True, he was making good points, it would be nice to see him back.

[jimmie]

He didn't seem like the type to get too bent out of shape by personal criticisms/attacks on the interweb; seemed pretty level-headed for that level of insecurity, IMO. My guess is that 'real life' has simply gotten in the way of posting lately. I hope it's nothing serious.

[EDIT] Ironic, though, that this discussion of "wherefore Tim W." is being played out in the "Everything Bargnani" thread... I guess it goes to show how much Tim has become defined here by his opinions of one player. I agree that he has a lot of good thoughts to add on the Raptors in general, so hopefully he'll be back.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

He didn't seem like the type to get too bent out of shape by personal criticisms/attacks on the interweb; seemed pretty level-headed for that level of insecurity, IMO. My guess is that 'real life' has simply gotten in the way of posting lately. I hope it's nothing serious.

[EDIT] Ironic, though, that this discussion of "wherefore Tim W." is being played out in the "Everything Bargnani" thread... I guess it goes to show how much Tim has become defined here by his opinions of one player. I agree that he has a lot of good thoughts to add on the Raptors in general, so hopefully he'll be back.

hahaha boost the guys ego will you.