Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[ReubenJRD]

Bargnani gets benched for being abysmal. Comes back in and shows out strong. I liked it.



Some people were giving excuses that this game is too fast for him, he can't match up with the speed.

IMO, the greatest players can play whatever situation, whatever pace, whatever schemes there are. If it's too fast for them, then they shouldn't get the big bucks if they can't play uptempo. If you can't play in a half-court set than I don't believe you deserve the big bucks either.

The best players can play whatever pace, i.e Dirk Nowitzki (2011 Finals), Lamarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, Josh Smith, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol...

Notice I placed the best power forwards out there, being I've watched a good amount of games for each of the players, great all-around ability, post or perimeter, run the floor, good handle on the basketball, solid post passers, can score at a high level, Bargnani has those things. But the thing he can't do as well as the 8 men up top, is being able to transition his game into a pace that doesn't fit his style. All of those men up except Josh Smith are all half-court-ridden players, but they can play in an up-tempo style and really produce.

Sure, Bargnani needs to continue to improve defensively, and needs to rebound the basketball like he was in the beginning of the season, but if he can't play in a different style, especially when the best of teams are so good in a fast pace game (Miami, Oklahoma, L.A Lakers/Clippers, Chicago, Indiana) it'll be useless.

Just my opinion though.

[Soft Euro]

I am not questioning Bargnani's offensive ability. Almost an elite scorer and definitely the best raptor. I am not saying his defense has not improved under Casey. It is still pathetic for a 7-foot center and I am picking and choosing plays to highlight his weakness. He has peaked and we don't need a star 6th man. When you are a rebuilding a team you go back to basics. give me a post-up rebounder at 4 anyday. Miami game proving my point once again - excels against Joel anthony but struggles otherwise. Bosh having his way inside. They are not even bothering with playing Lebron on him. And let me assure you they will if they thought it was worth it.

My post was about making unfounded claims and using them to support your point of view. You totally ignore this, but start bringing up new points against Bargnani which have absolutely nothing with my argument against your rhetorics.

Casey would bench you for this and Colangelo would probably waive you because you don't want to be accountable.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

lol gay isn't a race

hahahahaha im such an idiot

gender slur, i meant.

[Matt52]

The Raptors are now 13-16 with Bargnani in the lineup this season - and don't forget that includes the dreadful 10 games we all endured upon his 2nd return from calf injury.

Last 5 games (Raptors are 4-1):
34.8 minutes
25.0 points
8.4-16.6
.506%
2.0-4.8 3pt
.417 3pt%
6.2-6.6 ft
.939 ft%
4.4 rebounds
2.0 assists
0.4 blk
1.0 stl
1.8 to


Bargnani contributions in wins (13 games):
35.9 minutes
24.1 points
8.2-17.8
.463%
1.7-4.9 3pt
.344 3pt%
5.9-6.5
.907%
6.2 rebounds
1.8 assists
0.5 stl
0.5 blk
2.5 to


Bargnani contributions in losses (16 games):
32.2 minutes
16.5 points
5.8-14.3
.408%
0.7-2.9
.239 3pt%
4.2-4.9
.859 ft%
4.9 rebs
2.1 ast
0.5 blk
0.6 stl
2.3 to


Is it too early to say he has returned to his early season, pre-injury form based on last 5 games?

*We all know he can't rebound and his help D is atrocious - been there, done that, he isn't changing*

[ReubenJRD]

The Raptors are now 13-16 with Bargnani in the lineup this season - and don't forget that includes the dreadful 10 games we all endured upon his 2nd return from calf injury.

Last 5 games (Raptors are 4-1):
34.8 minutes
25.0 points
8.4-16.6
.506%
2.0-4.8 3pt
.417 3pt%
6.2-6.6 ft
.939 ft%
4.4 rebounds
2.0 assists
0.4 blk
1.0 stl
1.8 to


Bargnani contributions in wins (13 games):
35.9 minutes
24.1 points
8.2-17.8
.463%
1.7-4.9 3pt
.344 3pt%
5.9-6.5
.907%
6.2 rebounds
1.8 assists
0.5 stl
0.5 blk
2.5 to


Bargnani contributions in losses (16 games):
32.2 minutes
16.5 points
5.8-14.3
.408%
0.7-2.9
.239 3pt%
4.2-4.9
.859 ft%
4.9 rebs
2.1 ast
0.5 blk
0.6 stl
2.3 to


Is it too early to say he has returned to his early season, pre-injury form based on last 5 games?

*We all know he can't rebound and his help D is atrocious - been there, done that, he isn't changing*

To be totally honest, I don't give a jack about his offense in this point of his career. There is no doubt about his ability to score, but my outlook on him is how he can impact a game on the boards and defensively.

He was awesome defensively and on the boards before the injury, now it's like there is no push against Bargnani to complete his "goals." I'm not feeling the same vibe that I felt in the beginning of the season with Andrea Bargnani....

Someone feed him some Primo Pasta and sauce....

[Absinthe]

I haven't seen him throw up an airball 3 in a little bit, so that's one good indication for me, lol. Still, I'd say it's a little early. I'll wait another 5 games to see where he's at. I am optimistic though.


Looking at the last 5 opponents: Nuggets (W, no Nene), Heat (L), Wizards (W), Bobcats (W), Sixers (W, struggling team).

Looking at the next 5 opponents: Cleveland, OKC, Pacers, Eighty-Sixers (get it?), Boston.

By the numbers, when Bargs scores more, the team wins. By common sense, when he's rolling offensively, the team as a whole has an easier time on offense.
Given that the team also plays defense on that given night, they give themselves a better shot at winning, compared to when Bargs isn't getting it done on O.

It will be interesting to see if he can be consistently produce offensively while also having to expend more physical and mental energy on his individual and help-defense, due to the tougher crop of opponents (minus Cleveland, perhaps the Sixers if they continue to struggle).
Not bothering with discussing boards here.

[Matt52]

To be totally honest, I don't give a jack about his offense in this point of his career. There is no doubt about his ability to score, but my outlook on him is how he can impact a game on the boards and defensively.

He was awesome defensively and on the boards before the injury, now it's like there is no push against Bargnani to complete his "goals." I'm not feeling the same vibe that I felt in the beginning of the season with Andrea Bargnani....

Someone feed him some Primo Pasta and sauce....

Unfortunately you will always be disappointed. That just isn't him. I'd love him to rebound and defend but I'd rather have Bargnani putting up his current numbers and have the Raptors win than have him rebound and defend and have the Raptors lose. At the end of the day, winning is what matters and if he doesn't grab a single rebound and the Raptors still win, I'm fine with that.

What I find incredible is he can play horrendous for 10 games and the Raptors are still 13-16 with him in the lineup. Given the team is going to add some serious talent this summer and they are 3 games under .500 with him, things might be interesting faster than anyone imagined.

[ReubenJRD]

Unfortunately you will always be disappointed. That just isn't him. I'd love him to rebound and defend but I'd rather have Bargnani putting up his current numbers and have the Raptors win than have him rebound and defend and have the Raptors lose. At the end of the day, winning is what matters and if he doesn't grab a single rebound and the Raptors still win, I'm fine with that.

What I find incredible is he can play horrendous for 10 games and the Raptors are still 13-16 with him in the lineup. Given the team is going to add some serious talent this summer and they are 3 games under .500 with him, things might be interesting faster than anyone imagined.

It's the attention he calls offensively, like I've said with Demar multiple times, as soon as he steps on the floor, the defense is paying attention meticulously.

We've already seen his ability this season to be able to play defense and rebound and still win. I don't think it's too much to ask of him to be able to rotate defensively, and grab 2 more boards than his average. Is it? I don't think so. If he can do it, than he should do it consistently.

[Chr1s1anL]

It's the attention he calls offensively, like I've said with Demar multiple times, as soon as he steps on the floor, the defense is paying attention meticulously.

We've already seen his ability this season to be able to play defense and rebound and still win. I don't think it's too much to ask of him to be able to rotate defensively, and grab 2 more boards than his average. Is it? I don't think so. If he can do it, than he should do it consistently.

+1

[Absinthe]

Jack Armstrong certainly thinks he's back, lol.

[Matt52]

Jack Armstrong certainly thinks he's back, lol.

For the 1st quarter he was. Don't know what happened after that.

[Matt52]

Via HoopsHype.com:

Emiliano Carchia: More Bargnani: 'With Casey as head coach we can build something important in the future. He's even more motivated now that we're not in POs' Twitter

Emiliano Carchia: Bargnani gave an interview to Tuttosport: 'This is my best season in the NBA. I feel I am a new player and I love coach Casey' Twitter

[LBF]

interesting andrea loves the guy that played him til he broke.

was so ridiculous when he played him luike 80 minutes during a back 2 back. I'm not going to lie i'm not sure d case is much more equipped than jay was/is. Excellent d. coord.

but, offence and time management not so much. If jay is willing to be an assistant coach again along with his other role or just drop that all together. Would do wonders for the raps, him dictating offence and casey defence, you have yourself a very bright near future.

[Matt52]

interesting andrea loves the guy that played him til he broke.

was so ridiculous when he played him luike 80 minutes during a back 2 back. I'm not going to lie i'm not sure d case is much more equipped than jay was/is. Excellent d. coord.

but, offence and time management not so much. If jay is willing to be an assistant coach again along with his other role or just drop that all together. Would do wonders for the raps, him dictating offence and casey defence, you have yourself a very bright near future.

Offense isn't Casey's problem. Lack of talent is.

There was no pre season and has been very little practice time. The emphasis was on defense from the beginning. The offense has come around. In March they averaged over 96 points per game which is on par with playoff teams like Chicago, Indiana, and LAL; better than playoff teams like Boston, Orlando, Philly, Dallas, and Memphis; and better than any non-playoff Eastern Conference team other than Milwaukee.

I do agree minute management is a concern, although I think the lesson might have been learned regarding individual player boundaries. Also, lack of talent factors in to the reliance on Bargnani so much earlier in the year as well.

[Miekenstien]

I do agree minute management is a concern, although I think the lesson might have been learned regarding individual player boundaries. Also, lack of talent factors in to the reliance on Bargnani so much earlier in the year as well.

he had to know how far he could push bargs and now he knows. it was good for his growth. like in semi pro, they had to play until they puked.

next year this team will be 8-9 deep with match up role players in as depth.

[LBF]

Offense isn't Casey's problem. Lack of talent is.

There was no pre season and has been very little practice time. The emphasis was on defense from the beginning. The offense has come around. In March they averaged over 96 points per game which is on par with playoff teams like Chicago, Indiana, and LAL; better than playoff teams like Boston, Orlando, Philly, Dallas, and Memphis; and better than any non-playoff Eastern Conference team other than Milwaukee.

I do agree minute management is a concern, although I think the lesson might have been learned regarding individual player boundaries. Also, lack of talent factors in to the reliance on Bargnani so much earlier in the year as well.

alright, well the points are good. but, the schemes and time management. I don't know I think he could use a guy like jay to help out.

i'm not going to lie, I haven't seen much raptors games outside the highlights. there is just nothing about this team this year that is intriguing.

but, i watch sports talk shows and highlights and from what I see and hear, the offense is just out of whack.

it needs to be fixed if we are going to take the next step.

[Matt52]

alright, well the points are good. but, the schemes and time management. I don't know I think he could use a guy like jay to help out.

i'm not going to lie, I haven't seen much raptors games outside the highlights. there is just nothing about this team this year that is intriguing.

but, i watch sports talk shows and highlights and from what I see and hear, the offense is just out of whack.

it needs to be fixed if we are going to take the next step.

I've seen every game this year minus a half versus Charlotte and the last half of 1st overtime and 2nd OT versus Utah (damn PVR).

Guys are getting open looks, they just aren't hitting them. DeRozan struggled at the start of the year. Butler started the first 12 games. Barbosa started slow. Bargnani came back awful. Kleiza has been inconsistent. JJ struggled at the start of the year shooting and spent some time with assistant coach to work on his mechanics - he has shown improvement but he'll never be a shooter in the league.

The problem isn't the offense, it is the lack of talent running it.

I wouldn't waste my time with the blowhards on talk shows and highlights are just that.

In my opinion, if it is not already clear - haha, is more talent is needed to take the next step. I cannot wait until this off season.

[Matt52]

Bargnani with 'tight left calf'. 10 game dive underway?

[Miekenstien]

Bargnani with 'tight left calf'. 10 game dive underway?

another 10 day caller up. no point playing when you can try your best with less and lose.

[saints91]

Bargnani with 'tight left calf'. 10 game dive underway?

9 games are left. I can definitely see us losing the next 6 with Bargs in the lineup; Pacers[tonight], Boston, 76ers, the Hawks[twice on a back to back], and the Heat. Besides those match-ups we have the Bucks and the Pistons on a back to back and the Nets on the season closer.

I think we have two to three more wins left in us. At this point I'll be happy with 0.