View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #861
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    Quote Introcollapse wrote: View Post
    Oh jeeze. Vinnie, don't argue with Buddah.
    got that tupac mentality... i hit em up !

  2. #862
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    would you trade Bargnani for Javale McGee?
    McGee looked great at the end of last season, but he's really a complete unknown. Who knows what he'll end up doing? He's a great shotblocker, but his defensive IQ is not high. McGee could end up being a very good player, but I simply haven't watched enough of him to know.

    Quote Blasterfi9 wrote: View Post
    Yes he's a year older... but, still it would technically make them younger overall -_-. Also considering they're cnetres with the o'neals, they have good defence if not as good D with Jermaine who also plays better offence then Perkins. If i was boston i totally do that deal in a second perks for Bargs. It can really bolster their bench by a mile, and on top of that no way Raptors do the trade. Kendricks is out for like half the season from early reports, you honeslty think the raptors do this trade for damged goods and end up with wat Anderson or Alabi starting at centre, and the only postion we won't suck at completely become out biggest weakness from playing undersized or unskilled players?
    Even with the O'Neals, Boston needs Perkins if it wants to win a Championship. Shaq is pretty much done, and may actually have a detrimental effect on Boston. And Shaq is one of the few big men in the NBA that doesn't make Jermaine look like a creaky old man. If either of those two are back next season, I'd be surprised. Well, I'd be surprised if they are back and in the rotation.

    Bargnani doesn't make that team better. He'll hurt them on the boards and on the defensive end. Besides, you think that Bargnani is going to get extended minutes on a team that is so focused on defense? You think Doc Rivers is going to turn a blind eye to Bargnani's inability to play team defense? With Pierce, ROndo, Allen and Garnett, they only thing Bargnani would be doing is spotting up at the three point line, waiting for someone to throw him the ball. You really think Boston is going to trade one of the best defensive centers in the league for a spot up shooter. Basically, he would be filling Brian Scalabrine's roll. And he played less than 10 mpg.

    Boston doesn't need him and would be a very poor fit.

    As for the Raptors, who cares who they have to play at center for half the season? Are they really vying for anything? Hell, they could put start Amir and Davis.

  3. #863
    Raptors Republic Rookie Blasterfi9's Avatar
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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    do you think boston would risk losing a center who has proven to be one of the best defenders at that position in the league for bargnani ?

    is boston more likely to win a title with perkins defending dwight, noah, and gasol or are they more likely to win with bargs ?
    Yes i think they are willing to trade for bargnani when it especially helps in the short term that team aint gettin younger tey need to gel and they need to do it now, makes no sense for them if a deal like this pops up to sit around till middle of the season when they get Perks back as well as two other centres, and all three that have very similar play styles to one another.

  4. #864
    Raptors Republic Rookie Blasterfi9's Avatar
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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    do you think boston would risk losing a center who has proven to be one of the best defenders at that position in the league for bargnani ?

    is boston more likely to win a title with perkins defending dwight, noah, and gasol or are they more likely to win with bargs ?
    Yes i totally think they would, they dont care bout long term, its all about short term. That team aint gettin older and if they want to win it all, they gotta do it soon. trading for bargs would helps immensely short term, and on top of that Perks comes back in the middle of the season that screws up w.e chemsitry they had, and on top of that they end up with three centres all who play the same style. Wats the point in the that, if Bargs was tossed over to them for damaged goods in Perkins whose gonna be really rusty when he gets back they trade no question for healthy bargs for the time being. Of course raps would again nvr do this trade

  5. #865
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    Quote Blasterfi9 wrote: View Post
    Yes i totally think they would, they dont care bout long term, its all about short term. That team aint gettin older and if they want to win it all, they gotta do it soon. trading for bargs would helps immensely short term, and on top of that Perks comes back in the middle of the season that screws up w.e chemsitry they had, and on top of that they end up with three centres all who play the same style. Wats the point in the that, if Bargs was tossed over to them for damaged goods in Perkins whose gonna be really rusty when he gets back they trade no question for healthy bargs for the time being. Of course raps would again nvr do this trade
    couldnt disagree more....

    you dont trade a defensive center who is young and has proven himself by guarding some of the best bigs in the league for a 1 dimensional big who cant rebound or defend.

    it is much harder to find a good defensive big then a guy like bargnani who cant defend anyone or rebound

    clearly there's no convincing you so lets just agree to disagree...

  6. #866
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    still confused as to why these guys keep hammering the raps, bargnani, BC. last time i checked this is a raptors forum. maybe its hate the raptors forum. care to fill me in admins?

    um, points win championships, defense helps win championships. how can the opponents rebound if a team keeps making shots? the key is to play solid, decent defense and make sure you always score the basketball. last time i checked, the NBA counts points, whoever has the most points wins the game. maybe in your island teams win with rebounds and blocks but not here in our normal world.

    "also when you really understand basketball, you know rebounding and defense are as important if not more important than scoring..." - wow. id like to see artest, battier, perkins, garnett and rondo win a championship against durant, james, anthony, bryant and wade.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 01:03 AM.

  7. #867
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    couldnt disagree more....

    you dont trade a defensive center who is young and has proven himself by guarding some of the best bigs in the league for a 1 dimensional big who cant rebound or defend.

    it is much harder to find a good defensive big then a guy like bargnani who cant defend anyone or rebound

    clearly there's no convincing you so lets just agree to disagree...
    i think youre 100% correct. perkins is indeed one of kind. if he's so proven and can keep up with the best bigs in the league, how come he gets 4mil a year and dhow 16mil? why isnt perkins the highest paid player in boston?? and bargs gets 10mil for scoring 16pts and getting 6 rebs a game with 1.4 blks while perkins gets 10/7/1.7???? this is an outrage! the raptors should get perkins, pay him as much as dhow and lets get the parade started coz we got perkins and defense wins championships! take that miami heat! they got a combined 80 points at least with their big three but hey, who needs points when you got kendrick perkins!!!!

  8. #868
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    still confused as to why these guys keep hammering the raps, bargnani, BC. last time i checked this is a raptors forum. maybe its hate the raptors forum. care to fill me in admins?
    It's a Raptor forum, which means discussion of all things Raptors. It doesn't mean fawning over the Raptors, even if you don't think it's deserved.

    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    um, points win championships, defense helps win championships. how can the opponents rebound if a team keeps making shots? the key is to play solid, decent defense and make sure you always score the basketball. last time i checked, the NBA counts points, whoever has the most points wins the game. maybe in your island teams win with rebounds and blocks but not here in our normal world.
    Well, if you look at the past NBA Champions, every single one of them were good defensive teams with at least one All-Defensive player on it. Meanwhile, great scoring teams over the years usually fail to reach the Finals. It's not the team that scores the most points that wins. It's the team that stops the other team from scoring more points than them that wins.

    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    "also when you really understand basketball, you know rebounding and defense are as important if not more important than scoring..." - wow. id like to see artest, battier, perkins, garnett and rondo win a championship against durant, james, anthony, bryant and wade.
    Well, considering James, Bryant and Wade all have been All-Defensive 1st or 2nd team members, that second team is going to be pretty damn good at defense, too.

    How about Rondo, Kobe, Gerald Wallace, LeBron and Dwight Howard (The All-Defensive first team this past season) against Durant, Carmelo, Monta Ellis, Dirk and Stoudemire (all top ten in scoring). Which team do YOU think is going to win?

  9. #869
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    i think youre 100% correct. perkins is indeed one of kind. if he's so proven and can keep up with the best bigs in the league, how come he gets 4mil a year and dhow 16mil? why isnt perkins the highest paid player in boston?? and bargs gets 10mil for scoring 16pts and getting 6 rebs a game with 1.4 blks while perkins gets 10/7/1.7???? this is an outrage! the raptors should get perkins, pay him as much as dhow and lets get the parade started coz we got perkins and defense wins championships! take that miami heat! they got a combined 80 points at least with their big three but hey, who needs points when you got kendrick perkins!!!!
    By that logic, Calderon is as good a player as Rondo, because they make about the same.

  10. #870
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    um, points win championships, defense helps win championships. how can the opponents rebound if a team keeps making shots? the key is to play solid, decent defense and make sure you always score the basketball. last time i checked, the NBA counts points, whoever has the most points wins the game. maybe in your island teams win with rebounds and blocks but not here in our normal world.
    hahah even an all-star team misses some shots

  11. #871
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    "also when you really understand basketball, you know rebounding and defense are as important if not more important than scoring..." - wow. id like to see artest, battier, perkins, garnett and rondo win a championship against durant, james, anthony, bryant and wade.
    see the theory behind this is good defense will always keep you in games...

    on nites when the shooters are struggling, they will still be in the game and have a chance to win as long as the defensive effort is there...

    this is not a new concept in basketball but i dont think you have ever heard about it

  12. #872
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    um, points win championships, defense helps win championships. how can the opponents rebound if a team keeps making shots? the key is to play solid, decent defense and make sure you always score the basketball. last time i checked, the NBA counts points, whoever has the most points wins the game. maybe in your island teams win with rebounds and blocks but not here in our normal world.
    exactly so having good defense prevents the other team from scoring more than you.

    orl, bos and the lakers ranked 3rd, 4th, and 5th last season in defensive rating, which measures points against per 100 possessions which im sure you're very familiar with.

    now when mentioning orlando, boston, and the lakers, can you tell me if anything common about these teams jumps out you ?

    hint : think of all the teams to have made it to the nba finals in the last 3 years.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2010.html
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2010.html
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2010.html

    also im sure you know this too:

    the lakers and celtics werent even in the top 10 in offensive rating last season

  13. #873
    Raptors Republic Rookie madeupid25's Avatar
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    Allright. Cards on the table time, gentleman. I think Perk starts if / when he returns healthy. Colangelo would not trade Barney for Perk, but other GM's might consider it. How come every thread ends up as a Buddah / Vinnie Paz debate? Buddahfan, explain yourself, r u a devout follower of the Dalai Lama? Or just a big Cheech and Chong fan? Vinne Paz, don't no one give a fuck about Jedi Mind Tricks so go on with your bad self... Either way, I guess Im saying, can't we all just get along?
    Last edited by madeupid25; Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 03:12 AM.

  14. #874
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    Quote madeupid25 wrote: View Post
    I think Perk starts if / when he returns healthy. How come every thread ends up as a Buddah / Vinnie Paz debate? Buddahfan, explain yourself, r u a devout follower of the Dalai Lama? Or just a big Cheech and Chong fan? Vinne Paz, don't no one give a fuck about Jedi Mind Tricks so go on with your bad self... Either way, I guess Im saying, can't we all just get along?
    hahahhaha you're so right... we need a to focus on things we all agree on...

    maybe we should start a thread about your favorite things related to the raptors :

    my top 3:

    1. the raptors dance pak

    2. raps tv

    3. the acc

  15. #875
    Raptors Republic Rookie madeupid25's Avatar
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    I don't know if you're trying to be patronizing but...

    Yes, I love the Raps Dance Pak...

    Paul Jones has got it going on...

    ACC is the bomb... It's real easy to smoke doobies (while watching ridiculous big screen) outside of there with T.O.'s finest standing just a few feet away...

    Please don't tell me about my fav thing about the Raps cuz u don't know me friend... But fyi... At this time... my fav thing about the Raps is the young G'Z and I will give props to douchebag BC for making that happen.

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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    still confused as to why these guys keep hammering the raps, bargnani, BC. last time i checked this is a raptors forum. maybe its hate the raptors forum. care to fill me in admins?

    um, points win championships, defense helps win championships. how can the opponents rebound if a team keeps making shots? the key is to play solid, decent defense and make sure you always score the basketball. last time i checked, the NBA counts points, whoever has the most points wins the game. maybe in your island teams win with rebounds and blocks but not here in our normal world.

    "also when you really understand basketball, you know rebounding and defense are as important if not more important than scoring..." - wow. id like to see artest, battier, perkins, garnett and rondo win a championship against durant, james, anthony, bryant and wade.

    wow. just...wow. i'm pretty sure that when FAQ starts going off about THFs, you're who he's thinking of. bang that drum, my man...
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  17. #877
    Raptors Republic Rookie lusset blither's Avatar
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    Quote Paradigm Shift wrote: View Post
    about how BC had this "formula" for something like B-Ball acumen or some notion that included both physical and mental attributes. All the talk was about how this kid blew the test out of the water.

    Does anyone else recall this? If so, can you explain what we have seen Bargnani's game over the last few years that would correlate with such a measure?
    All I can recall from that year is that he had very good results at his Caliper test...
    ka mate, ka ora, whiti te rā!!, hī!

  18. #878
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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    u need help...

    THERE IS VALUE in defense, and just cuz you dont see it, doesnt mean everyone doesnt.

    ask celtic fans how much they value the efforts of a tony allen, pj brown, or james posey...

    those guys are always more valued than a nate robinson or marquis daniels...

    real fans know and you who said you watched a lot of piston games should know it too.
    I don't think he said there was no value to defence. He was just saying fans tend to only look on offence because that's how you score points and the name of the game is scoring. And if points were given for defence, there would be much more recognition and value of a player's defencive capabilities. Then again, I could be mistaken.

    As for the topic, obviously we're going to value Bargnani more for his offence because that is his strength, just like Perkins' strength is his defence. It really depends on the team you're on. If Bargnani was on Boston where his defence would be shadowed by KG, etc. He wouldn't be frowned upon for his defence. If Perkins was on the Raptors, he would be no where near a top 10 center in this league because of the fact that he can't create anything on a team with no playmakers. Makes him look terrible, plus his defence/rebounding will be less valued because no wins are being produced.

    All I know is that overall, I would take Bargnani over Perkins (and other centers like him) if I'm the current version of the Raptors. He still has a chance to learn to play better defence than Perkins has a chance to hit 100 3-pointers in a season.

  19. #879
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote madeupid25 wrote: View Post
    ACC is the bomb... It's real easy to smoke doobies
    They say it is better to have your girlfriend make some brownies

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  20. #880
    Raptors Republic Rookie noxleno's Avatar
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    Wow, this thread filled up really fast...no surprise there given the nature of the thread. For the record, I voted YES in the poll; my logic being that while Bargnani may not be a top ten player at doing the things that are typically required at center (rebounding, interior defense, etc) , he is still better overallthan some of the older, more traditional centers that one might include in such a list. In reality, Bargnani shouldn't even apply in a conversation about centers, but since he does, and is listed as a PF/C, then with all aspects of the game considered he is more valuable in general when not considered as a C.

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