Relax guys, it's one game. Preseason at that. Did you also notice how he was doubled every time in the post (something he isn't used to all)?
He's still the best on the team at creating his own shot.
Honestly the Bargs hate is getting pretty tedious. He's def not our savior but we're stuck with him for a while, so please quit the whining all the time. He could still grow to be an awesome 2nd option, but until we get someone better suck it up princess.
Eh follow my TWITTER!
There isn't really a go to guy anymore in the NBA. The only possibility is a teams most clutch player. Bargnani hasn't shown to be clutch. The best teams have a rotation of 3+ players who can drop 20 points on any given night. The raptors will have that balance this year with Bargnani being one of them, Kleiza the second, and the third player is yet to emerge.
If Bargnani can average 20/7/2 all-star consideration numbers (realistic goals for him). And secondly, if he can improve his defense and shot selection then we can stop having these conversations.
-"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
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Canadian High School/Prep School prospects.
http://crownmagonline.com/
http://www.flagrantfouls.com/
Bargnani is the go to guy (albeit by default)... god help us all.
BC has to trade him as soon as his value peaks! As we all know he needs to play with another big who can rebound and defend, so which teams does that leave as trade partners?...
I think Weems is our clutch playerRaptorsss wrote:
He was... but as it turns out he is not that interested in becoming great.
"I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"
It's coming. Been really busy lately.
Obviously Bynum, Yao and Oden seem to be injury prone, so while they're better players than Bargnani, I can see people not wanting them over him.
Perkins will mis time with injury this season, but he's not injury prone.
Kaman was injured for a couple of seasons, but has, for the most part, been healthy the majority of the time, including last season. There's no reason to believe he's going to be injured.
Horford made the All-Star team, is a far, far better defender and rebounder than Bargnani is, scored only 3 fewer points per game than Bargnani while taking 4 fewer shots and being the fourth option. Ya, I'd say he's better than Bargnani. Easily.
Okur does pretty much everything Bargnani does on the offensive end, but actually rebounds the ball and isn't a liability on the defensive end. Not sure how Bargnani is better.
Nene might be close, but, in the end, he plays excellent defense and scored only 4 fewer ppg than Bargnani, while shooting close to 60% the last two seasons. Bargnani is a more versatile scorer, Nene does the little things that helps his team win, plus he gets to the line at a much, much higher rate than Bargnani despite shooting a lot less.
As for Bargnani's impact, you seem to value offensive impact more than defensive. If Bargnani isn't scoring, he's got very little impact on the game, which showed last night against Phoenix. That's the big problem with Bargnani. He really only impacts the game in one area, and because of how he gets his offense, he can't be counted on consistently. A guy like Nene is going to have an impact throughout the game because he doesn't need the ball to do it. Bargnani does.
I actually agree with this. He wasn't a bad pick. He was the wrong one, but not a bad one. There are only 3 players that are most definitely better than Bargnani (Roy, Gay and Rondo) and none of them were really thought of as potential #1 picks.
I agree he wasn't drafted for his defense. I just value defense.
I'm guessing you don't watch a lot of Brandon Roy. If you had, you certainly wouldn't choose Bargnani over him. Roy struggled with injuries last season, but still managed to average 21.5 pg, 4.7 apg and 4.4 rpg while shooting the same percentage from the field as Bargnani. And it was considered an off season for him. He's a special player and there isn't a GM in the NBA that wouldn't pick him before Bargnani now.
I've been waiting, impatiently
Not only do we both agree, so does ESPN.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...had&id=2484931
The review? Bargnani's performance was impressive, if flawed. While his stat line -- 16 points, 7-for-13 shooting, five rebounds and three blocks in 25 minutes -- was solid, he made a number of defensive mistakes.
He often looked confused as to whom he was guarding. Blatt's demand that he guard threes, fours and fives in different situations seemed to have his head spinning. He also was pushed around in the paint by physical players such as Bagaric and Travis Watson. A few silly fouls kept him off the court a little longer than Blatt would have liked.
And on offense Bargnani was too passive at times, passing up shots.
But for his first appearance in the Italian League finals?
"I thought he was great," Blatt said after the game. "People forget how young he is and that this is his first year playing in games like these. I couldn't be prouder. He helped us win this game tonight from beginning to end. He makes mistakes, but he's been doing this at this level for one year. I've been doing it for 25 and I still make a few."
I talked to several NBA executives after the game, and all came away impressed.
"If you know anything about basketball overseas," one executive said, "then you know the type of pressure and competition that kid played against tonight. The players are better than college and the intensity is greater than just about anything you'll ever come up against. Do you know how crazy you all [in the media] would be going if an NBA rookie put up a performance like that in the Finals? He's going to be just fine."
"I'm not objective," Blatt said. "But I'm a big believer in his potential and I'm amazed at what he's been able to do. He has the basketball life of a 1-year-old. He's handled the pressure and scrutiny he's under beautifully. He has the physical tools and the mental and emotional makeup of a star. He's bigger, tougher and stronger than people think. He's passionate, willful and determined. If he can go to the right place, his upside is enormous."
Il Mago might eventually be a bust in the NBA. Or he might be star.
He might not become the next Nowitzki or Gasol, but he's no Tskitishvili either. Unlike Skita, he's performed on the big stage, without smoke and mirrors.
And maybe, just maybe, if he has one trick left up his sleeve, he'll be the No. 1 pick in the 2006 NBA Draft.
Linas Kleiza is the Go to Guy....many people will be surprised...
Forget last season. It is history and meaningless in Triano's plans.
Too early to tell who will be the go to guy, but if it wouldn't surprise me it was Kleiza taking over the Bosh role but not quite so much so.
Start Dorsey at the PF and keep the quick second unit. Dorsey is the best Raptors rebounder. He would do a better job of compensating for Bargnani's terrible rebounding than Johnson would. Dorsey also has the bulk and strength to defend the heavier and stronger Centers in the league. No way Johnson should be starting unless he can do a lot better than 5 fouls per 15 minutes.
Second unit
-------------------
Johnson
Weems
Barbosa
Jack
Anderson for now and then Davis - When he is ready.
Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s
Memories some so sweet, indeed
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Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.“As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
Funny he used too imply the same thing about Jose,fortunatelyl Larry Brown and Cheese Eyes blew up that myth a few months ago....
lol @ kleiza being the go to guy,hilarious !
There is no go to guy....Whoever has the open shot,whoever is shooting well on a particular night will get a shot at being a hero...
*** @ a career 10 and 4 guy being GO TO
2009-10 Clutch Stats - Per 48
There are times when I HATE Stats - but times when one needs to counter the BS
.
I checked out 82games.com, and found some stats that sorta surprised me.
2009-10 Clutch Stats - 5 minutes left - Neither team ahead by more than 5 points.
- FG% > Bargnani had the highest average for a Raptor (and that includes Bosh).
- RBs > Bargnani was behind "dearly departed" Turk & Bosh. (8.8 Rbs per 48)
- Plus/Minus > Bargnani was 26th overall (at +17), behind Turk (+21) and Calderon/Jack (both at +18). By the way, Bosh clocked in at +13.
http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT13.HTM
What does this mean?
Only that I keep reading all these crap stats, telling me Andrea is a joke. Does this mean he's a superstar - NO. It just means that Andrea can be our go-to guy. At least until we find that Franchise player we keep hoping we'll find under some rock.
.
On a side note, Dampier's numbers were interesting.
FG% : .923 (#1 last year)
Rbs : 14.4 (higher than any other Raptor player)
+/- : +19 (only Turk was higher for the Raps)
.
Now that is some intelligent insight. Thanks for the breakdown and hopefully this will reduce some of the unfounded bashing of Bargnani...
If Barg's averages 9 rebounds a game the Raptor's make the playoffs- book it....
Kleiza and Derozan should be the go to scorers, though we also need Jack to be aggressive.
Bargnani can't create his own shot and doesn't do anything on the glass. He hasn't earned the go to guy status.
Does Bargnani Deserve His Guaranteed Starting Position?
I believe that we all have heard BC & Jay say that Bargnani is the only Raptor with a guaranteed starting spot (Kleiza has also been mentioned as being a projected starter based on his FIBA play by BC/Jay) going into the preseason. But after 2 preseason games Bargnani has played like a scrub in what should be his breakout year according to BC when he drafted him calling it a 5 year project- well it's now currently the start of year 5 and he comes out of the gates playing like garbage- wtf? With Jay/BC saying in the media that AB isn't the go to guy in 2010-11. As well as taking leadership responsibilities away from him via the media ie promoting Kleiza, Reggie & Jack when questioned- when Bargnani has been in TO longer than anyone except Calderon (who's most likely on his way out once BC finds a suitable deal).
Have we (fans/followers) been bamboozeled by BC?
All the various things that BC & Jay have criticized Bosh for lacking post free agency in the media while he was a Raptor they are now protecting Bargnani from the same media pressures- why is that?
The constant coddling of Bargnani from BC, Gherardini & Jay has got to stop if TO ever wants to be a competitive NBA team as the players see this happening first hand every day and it could cause friction within the team especially when the player in question isn't producing at a high level in practice and/or games.
I know it's only 2 preseason games in but AB's lackadaisical effort seems like a constant trend with Bargnani over the course of his career. If I was in charge I would sit his ass down until he posted up, rotated properly on D and crashed the boards replacing him with a less skilled but more hungry player like Dorsey in the line up. Maybe then he'll get the message or it may destroy his already fragile pre packaged ego. Il Mago or Il Drago?
Last edited by SirChillyMost; Sun Oct 10th, 2010 at 10:35 PM.
Sure, I'll be willing to take that bet. The most Bargnani has ever managed in a month is 7.1 rpg. And his next highest month was 6.7 rpg. If Bargnani averages over 7.0 rpg, I'll be shocked. The 8-9 range is getting into the WTF range.
Why suddenly make this personal? How old are we?
Why? Last season, the Raptors were a poor rebounding team and he still managed to only grab 6.1 rpg. Obviously there were rebounds available to grab, the other team just ended up grabbing them. It's not as if the rebounds Bosh grabbed were going to the Raptors, anyway.
And it's also not as if Bosh is being replaced in the lineup by weaker rebounders. Amir, Evans and Dorsey are all excellent rebounders and rebound at a rate similar to, if not better than Bosh, and Davis should also be a very good rebounder, as well. Plus, Kleiza is a better rebounder than TUrkoglu. If anything, there will be FEWER rebounding "chances" for Bargnani this season than last.
Bargnani improved his offense alot last year, but everything else about him has stayed the same ever since he was drafted. His lack of movement, defense, enthusiasm ... I never expected anything big from him, and honestly, did you?
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