Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[smushmush]

OK, putting Bargs in the same basket as Graham and Araujo is just plain mean. His problem is that people had great expectations being the no.1 pick in the draft, but let's face it they were unrealistic. That must have been one of the all-time worst draft classes, and BC saw in him a guy who can stretch the floor. He is exactly that kind of player. What everyone was hoping was that he can improve his defense and rebounding and become one of the best big men in the league, but we can safely say that won't happen. So he is what he is, a good shooting big man (which always has value in this league), but poor defender.
The real question is does Bargs fit into Raptor plans? If we are in total rebuild mode of course we would trade him for a descent offer, but after the off-season does anyone really think BC wants to go that way?

Guy, it is not mean - when you play without meeting expectations required of your position in the NBA, you are termed a "bust". Some become busts because of injuries(Greg Oden, Sam Bowie) but I sympathise with such players but some players a la Bill Walton, Zydrunas Illgauskas also had injuries but were able to manage it to have a succesful NBA career. If you are a Top 5 center or any other position in the league, you are at least expected to be average at meeting expectations required of your position or even show some improvements.

[smushmush]

OK, putting Bargs in the same basket as Graham and Araujo is just plain mean. His problem is that people had great expectations being the no.1 pick in the draft, but let's face it they were unrealistic. That must have been one of the all-time worst draft classes, and BC saw in him a guy who can stretch the floor. He is exactly that kind of player. What everyone was hoping was that he can improve his defense and rebounding and become one of the best big men in the league, but we can safely say that won't happen. So he is what he is, a good shooting big man (which always has value in this league), but poor defender.
The real question is does Bargs fit into Raptor plans? If we are in total rebuild mode of course we would trade him for a descent offer, but after the off-season does anyone really think BC wants to go that way?

But the good shooting big man should not be starting in the league and playing huge minutes when his position demands he rebounds, set solid screens and help defend. Good shooting big men are better off the bench and playing limited minutes on a playoff team - that is the difference between a team willing to win and a mediocre, bottom-feeder team.

[MangoKid]

He probably gets lowball offers with bad contracts.

[Hotshot]

Better then the Turkoglu offers.

[Tim W.]

Fair enough.

But I was against giving Jose that contract at the time because he had never played a full season as the primary starter for TO. Subsequent to that contract he has been very injury prone to say the least unlike Jack who hasn't missed a regular season game in 3 years but one would need a crystal ball to see that coming.

This is actually wrong. Calderon played all 82 games the season prior to receiving his big contract, and only missed 5 games the season before. His first season in the league he did miss some games due to injury, but to say he was very injury prone when he signed his contract is simply incorrect.

Bargnani got his contract extension based on exactly what? Potential? I'll give Barg's 20 regular season games to gauge where his play is at in relation to his contract. There are alot of bad contracts in the NBA- can't argue that, & Barg's may or may not end up as one of them- it's all up to Bargnani.

Bargnani did get a lot of his money based on potential, but that's the case with all young players. You think Rudy Gay got the max because he deserved it? If Bargnani didn't have his contract extended and instead became a free agent this past summer, I'm pretty sure he'd be getting more than he is right now. In that sense, and the fact that he's the 16th highest paid center and around the 16th best center, I'd say his contract is pretty fair.

As well, Jose & Bargnani (the 2 highest paid Raptor's for 2010-11) are tying up 17 million real dollars (Barg's is a BYC....***) that could be used to upgrade TO significantly not to mention that either one or both could eventually be on the bench this season when the Rap's start games.

Yes, their contracts, together, are quite a bit of money. Thankfully, neither of us are paying them. And since they wouldn't have been in the running to sign any big name free agents, anyway, what would have been the advantage to not having those contracts? At this point, those contracts are absolutely no hindrance to the team. And next summer, they'll have a bunch of cap space, anyway.

The last time they had cap space (AND an All-Star on the roster), the best the Raptors could get was Turkoglu (better, cheaper players turned them down). Who would the Raptors be able to sign that would not only improve them significantly, but also help maintain the development of the younger players and not mortgage the future of the team? It's not as if the Raptors don't have a huge TPE they couldn't use to improve the team if they wanted to. The problem is that even if they improve the team by ten games, they'd still barely make the playoffs and would it make them better off in the long run?

[LBF]

I'm Back!!!

It's been a while since I was on this site..I have been really buziiii,and now that raptor season is upon us,I will be more available.....anyway back 2 my topic.
Yes...I'm one who is not impress with Andrea and never will be.
Andrea has been with this franchise for 4 years going on 5 and he is still LOST...
Especially now that raptors are playing different offensive style and that Defense comes first.
Does he need big man play beside him..u bet ure Ass he does,now we know how much it was RuPaul that made him go...
Honestly what I want this franchise 2 do is get his value at highest and move him for talent that could benefit raptors organazation.
I might be out the lunch with this,but if u disagree with me or agree post ure msg...
Cheers!!!!

Go Raptors!!!

oh yeah good to see ya. who are you again?

[sleepz]

I remember BC saying in an interview earlier this past summer that he gets trade offers for Bargnani all the time but he never mentioned the specifics or exact trade particulars.

I was wondering what type of offers has BC turned down for Bargnani over the years.

Is AB an irreplaceable part of BC's Euro based basketball ideology & philosophy experiment in TO?

Is Bargnani part of the Raptor's future or is his value better used as a trade assest to gain better parts for TO?

Can anyone enlighten me as to why BC seemingly to refuses the thought of ever parting ways with Bargnani?

I believe he has also said in the past that he is the player that gets the most inquiries as to his availability. Of course we will never know who has been offered or even if there are offers. The one thing I do know is that he will NEVER trade Bargnani as his ego won't allow him to. It would be akin to admitting failure or a mistake (which he has done with Turkoglu mind you) but this failure would be too much as it would say or indicate that Andrea was a bust and he was the GM who selected him.

The problem is Colangelo is the main culprit for Andrea's shortcomings or expectations as he gave him a cushy support system and never challenged the kid to be accountable and get better in his area's of weakness. If you don't have to work hard for something or experience setvbacks or failures you tend not to value potential success as much.

Colangelo should be well aware of this considering he was a direct recipient of the "meritocracy" principle as he was in line for the GM job after his pops left Phoenix.

You don't force a player into the rotation (made that mistake with DeRozan as well) or fire a coach who doesn't play your prized possession as much as you want. There's a good reason why players sit down if they are not performing or doing what a coach needs them to.

I'm not a big Bargnani fan but I am starting to almost feel sorry for him as the hounds have now been let loose and he's rockin that milkbone underwear.

[SirChillyMost]

This is actually wrong. Calderon played all 82 games the season prior to receiving his big contract, and only missed 5 games the season before. His first season in the league he did miss some games due to injury, but to say he was very injury prone when he signed his contract is simply incorrect.

Was Jose the PRIMARY STARTER at pg for TO all those 82 games pre his big contract? No he wasn't. And ever since Jose got his big contract along with the starting pg job he has been very injury prone- fact.

Bargnani did get a lot of his money based on potential, but that's the case with all young players. You think Rudy Gay got the max because he deserved it? If Bargnani didn't have his contract extended and instead became a free agent this past summer, I'm pretty sure he'd be getting more than he is right now. In that sense, and the fact that he's the 16th highest paid center and around the 16th best center, I'd say his contract is pretty fair.

Rudy Gay wasn't drafted number 1 overall, Bargnani was and yet I'd take Gay over Bargnani contract and all right now. Potential gets folks fired unless there's a MLSE/Stern master plan ie Europeanize the Raptor's from the front office onto the basketball court. Also, it might not have been a bad idea to let Bargnani test the f/a waters.....but he's BC "Golden Child"..........***

Yes, their contracts, together, are quite a bit of money. Thankfully, neither of us are paying them. And since they wouldn't have been in the running to sign any big name free agents, anyway, what would have been the advantage to not having those contracts? At this point, those contracts are absolutely no hindrance to the team. And next summer, they'll have a bunch of cap space, anyway.

It's not just their contracts it's the players themselves that are a hindrance to the Rap's. You never know who will come once you dangle the money. Money talks bs walks. Next summer they may still have Calderon & Bargnani as well.....***

The last time they had cap space (AND an All-Star on the roster), the best the Raptors could get was Turkoglu (better, cheaper players turned them down). Who would the Raptors be able to sign that would not only improve them significantly, but also help maintain the development of the younger players and not mortgage the future of the team? It's not as if the Raptors don't have a huge TPE they couldn't use to improve the team if they wanted to. The problem is that even if they improve the team by ten games, they'd still barely make the playoffs and would it make them better off in the long run?

Why not use the TPE then. What was all BC's luxury tax talk about pre Bosh signing with Miami? Another Bull Chit PR spin in the wind? 4 plus years ago BC drafted Bargnani #1 overall- the future you speak of mortgaging is now for Bargnani. What's wrong with making the playoffs today as tomorrow is never promised? I live in the now and worry about tomorrow when it comes BC needs to acquire quality veteran NBA players now not some more projects and put a competitive respectable team on the court ASAP. He has the means ie TPE/expiring contracts/young talent, to get it done. Ex: Utah acquired Jefferson via their multi million dollar TPE to make sure that they will still be competitive after losing Boozer- BC????

[sleepz]

I wonder what the other players on the team think when they hear the coach and GM say that he is the only player guaranteed a starting spot?

I am positive that there are at least 3 or 4 other players on that team that look around during practice and think to themselves, "I'm the best player on this team".

Accountability and earning your minutes is the best way to go, especially for a team with no true star or a player who is head's above the rest of the squad talentwise.

BC will never trade Bargnani and the 5 year contract extension getting offered as quickly as it was is proof of that. His assistant GM is Bargnani's former GM overseas. Andrea is under contract longer than our $4 million per year, high collar, GM decision maker is. lol.

I'd rather get rid of Colangelo quicker than I would Bargnani. Andrea could be a valuable 6th man and would be in the running for 6th man of the year award every year if they brought him off the bench.

[kcharito]

12. He has to be good someday because he was once a number one over all

13. Brain Colangelo doesn't overly defend him and put positive spin on everything he does in a desperate attempt to make him successful because his career legacy will be harshly criticized for drafting him ahead of vastly superior players.

14. Bargniani is or he could be our franchise player
15. Bargniani is the next best thing in NBA
16. Bargniani is Center
17. Bargniani is a true 1st Draft Pick.

I think that Bargniani can contribute better if BC stops pressuring him with all that he is saying, because everyone knows that he is not as good as BC wants to "persuade" himself and the others...
He could be a very good power forward, or even sometimes a small forward, cause his strength is his shoot, and not his post moves or even his defense...He is too soft for 5 or even 4...If for example, the opponent's 4 is Garnett.

[Tim W.]

14. Bargniani is or he could be our franchise player
15. Bargniani is the next best thing in NBA
16. Bargniani is Center
17. Bargniani is a true 1st Draft Pick.

I think that Bargniani can contribute better if BC stops pressuring him with all that he is saying, because everyone knows that he is not as good as BC wants to "persuade" himself and the others...
He could be a very good power forward, or even sometimes a small forward, cause his strength is his shoot, and not his post moves or even his defense...He is too soft for 5 or even 4...If for example, the opponent's 4 is Garnett.

You lost me when you said he could be a very good power forward. Read #2...
http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...drea-bargnani/
...and then get back to me.

[Pele]

Bargs needs to get a lot better real fast. 25 - 7 against the bulls with clutch offensive and defensive plays.

[Karl Marx]

Just replace him with a REAL Center ASAP!

Earlier a poster here took me to task for having good old Karl as an avatar. I chose Karl for a reason: Down here in The People's Republic Of America, the Fascists (Republicans) think they will get back in power. This would be a bad thing for working class Americans and frankly, anyone who isn't rich already. My avatar (and my straight ticket Democratic ballot) are my protest against US Fascism. You Canadians seem to have a more Socialistic system: that is a GOOD thing!

[matt]

oh yeah good to see ya. who are you again?

How his thread managed to get to 3 pages is beyond me, usually people here in the republic ignore these idiots.

[RaptorRoo]

have you even watched a raptors game since 2005?

Nice rebuttal...That makes about as much sense as people like you giving up on Bargnani after 2 PRESEASON games.

[RaptorRoo]

Dream on. The fan base wants "Young Guns" - so try Solomon or Dorsey at the 5 instead.

Don't attempt to speak for the fan base when you don't even have a clue...

[Karl Marx]

RaptorRoo:

Anyone with eyes can see that the Raps would be farther ahead benching his sorry ass, like happened tonight.

[Thom]

The easy answer is no. The difficult answer is yes. He needs to have some plays drawn up for him and be the focus of the offense so we can figure out if he can be a consistent number one option. If he can handle the pressure and improve his game then the better for Bargnani and his trade value.

[Dr. James Naismith]

Nice to see that Chuck still wears this rose coloured glasses.

Reconnected with Andrea Bargnani who will be an All Star this year-book it

Source - Click here

[Ryan_1523]

Man.. Nothing's going through Bargnani at all. If they want him to be a critical part of the offense, maybe try running a few plays for him. He's looking sluggish.. Multiple occasions you see him jog down court on offense, stand at the top of the 3 point line until Raptors lose possession, jog back down and stand in the key.. Looking real ugly.

There's no doubt he can play, he just doesn't seem to fit into our offense at all.. I can't say what needs to be done, but we're looking really disorganized right now.. It is just pre-season, but we need to try something different before the season actually starts because this Chicago game is straight up depressing.