Gallinari has a crazy shot but seems very flat footed to nba star in the day and age
Gallinari has a crazy shot but seems very flat footed to nba star in the day and age
Let's put Bargnani's Left Nut under a microscope and talk about it 24/7. I'm sure we can say his left nut hangs lower then his right and it throws his defense off.
Let's blame the entire misfortunes of the Raptors on the #1 draft pick. Let's gas up the Andrea hate train and drive it over him one more time, because hell, he deserves. Let's let Andrea know how much we appreciate our #1 option and unload a truck load of shit on him EVERYDAY so he's FRESH and ready to go next game. Shit... I'm going to start telling my mom it her fault I'm not 6'7" and never made the NBA. That should make me feel better.....
The Raptors are in a Re-build with young players.... we are not going to the playoff this year... OH I got an Idea... lets direct all our negative energy towards our BEST option and then ask why he's not confident and why other player don't want to come here to our Roller Coaster Fans. YOUR AMAZING.....next.....YOU SUCK!!!!
This guy grew up in Rome Italy. A HUGE city that has dealt with TONS of controversy. Andrea's won't say much to the media about all the negative stuff cause he's got more class then that.
You know when my niece calls me the GodFather I defiantly get a confidence boost. A little go's a long way..............!
Reggie gets it!
Papi, I feel your frustration. Certainly Bargnani is not deserving of all the scrutiny he gets but with the prestige of being selected #1 so too is there lofty expectations. Many fans had lofty expectations, right or wrong, it is what it is. He deserves some criticism but he also deserves credit for improving every year.
I agree with you, Andrea Bargnani is a class act. He never causes trouble on or off the court and I am really hoping he can step up to the plate this year and prove the critics wrong. Toronto fans and media are a lot like Philly fans and media. Once a player is "marked" it's hard for that player to ever fall back into favor with the fans. Andrea Bargnani was marked from day one. What I hope happens is that if Bargnani finally steps up, leads and has an extremely successful season that the fans support him instead of what happened with Donovan McNabb in Philly. I have my doubts whether the fans will ever support Bargnani no matter how he turns out. I'm reminded of Mats Sundin and how hard he played for the Leafs. He was a great player, a great leader and gave it his all. Still, he couldn't get the devotion he deserved from his city. Erase Sundin's name and fill in McNabb's and it still works.
Last edited by Apollo; Thu Oct 21st, 2010 at 10:19 PM.
Once people stop associating Bargnani with being the number one pick, and recognize him for who he is - a player, the hate will remain.
I've accepted that Bargnani is who he is. He has shortcomings as all players do. Number one pick? So what? That was years ago. Move on.
The sentiments are well taken. I have generally been a supporter of Bargnani and his potential as a player and the person he is... but now in his fifth year my questions in December shall be..."Should AB continue to be the starting centre on the Raps" and "Will he be better coming off the bench" and "Should the team trade him to improve the team with the returning assets".
I believe he would have had enough time to adjust, become a major force on the team or time to cut bait. I am beyond thinking of him as a first overall...there were worse (Olowakandi and Kwame Brown relatively recently)
y would u talk bout a next manz nuts, u need a lil help bruh!
I for one don't care where he was drafted, and never, ever once criticized his personally. I don't have a problem with the way he conducts himself off the court and I have, on occasion, defended him from, what I felt, were inappropriate or simply incorrect criticisms.
That said, why on earth should we not criticize him for what he does on the court? Because of his role on the team, the number of minutes he plays and how vocal his fanbase is, I think Bargnani should expect criticism.
My one complaint is basically the idea behind this thread. His fans seem to think that he should be beyond criticism. He's not. He does one thing well, and that's shoot. He's a very poor rebounder, a very poor defender, and is simply not the offensive talent that he is talked up to be. His fans seem to vastly overrate him and often take it personally if you don't agree.
The idea of letting him alone to play his game would be fine if I thought his game wasn't so detrimental to the team. He's a big man who doesn't do the two most important things big men MUST do. Protect the paint and rebound. You can't win with a guy like that as your starting center (and he's even worse at PF, as I've gone over before).
I think it's great that he's a class and and is representing himself well. I think everyone one should be like that, regardless of what they do. But if I hire an accountant who can't add, I'm going to want to fire him regardless of how nice a guy he is.
I dont think AB has fallen out of favor with toronto fans. Ive been to games and seen how people cheer for him. Ive seen Bargnani jerseys all over toronto. I think the haters are mostly here in RR.
I absolutely agree that because he was a #1 pick, his game is much more magnified. But i dont think its fair to say he's a bust. Olawakandi was a bust, and so was Kwame. But Bargs is pretty much in the middle of the pack.
People here tend to exaggerate...."very poor rebounder, a very poor defender" i think is a little over the top. The guy averaged 6 rebounds (ranked 51st) and 1.4 shot blocks (ranked 14th) last season. I dont think one should label these as "poor" numbers, theyre average, but playing alongside Bosh who pretty much dominated the paint probably contributed to this. I think we should give him this season to see how he can adjust himself to being the #1 option, then you can throw him under the bus so to speak if he still puts up the same numbers.
i spent a bit of time during the offseason not coming to this board because offseason hypothetical chatter was pissing me off... like, not even really lurking or anything... just didnt want to hear it until actual basketball started... i'm not a fan of the business of basketball, just the game
when i finally came back, because preseason started, and i was kind of excited for the season thanks to the play of kleiza and barbosa, i'd say 8 out of 10 threads on the first page were bargs-bashing pages
you'd think he'd dissed toronto to go play for the heat or something.
actually... i take it back... i just went back and checked the last couple pages... almost every one of those threads was started by that SMH dude.. i must have come back to the board on a day he forgot to take his ritalin...
So do if I showed U a HUGE pile of Shat and in front of the pile was this little turd. Would you constantly blame the pile on the one piece of caca?
It just that the critic's seem to write the most reviews on players. Critic are negative in nature. They look for stuff to criticize about and beat the point to the ground. Critics seem to dominate the Web and drive opinions. But is their opinion correct? Is it the dominate opinion that represents the masses? No, but it usually gets the most traction because on the minions jump on the BandWagon for a little extra Horse Power.
"fans seem to think that he should be beyond criticism" I don't think *anybody* is beyond criticism. Criticism helps people improve by realizing their faults and improving on them. If you do nothing but tell me all the things I'm good at I will probably never improve because I'll think I have no faults. BUT... if you constantly tell me everyday that 'I suck' and all the little minions tell me 'I suck' well then..... you suck.... because I'm a little Mud Monkey trying to hold-up a Big Pile of guano.
Drea is our #1 option right now... he's is improving all the time. Maybe not the way you'd like him to but man can we support our guys more. What do you expect? Drea to put the team on his shoulders and part the Red Sea?
"His fans seem to vastly overrate him and often take it personally if you don't agree."
The spot light is difinatlly on him. The NBA is a business first and sports team second. Of course the media is going to talk about our #1 option a lot. We got nothing else to talk about. Does this mean we are overrating him? Or he's just the Poster Boy to sell tickets off. Who would come out in the Raptor's organization (that's getting a pay cheque) and openly chastise one of their biggest Marketing pieces? Nobody that values their job. Fans might take that as being 'Spoon Feed Cool Aid' about Bargnani talents. But it's just business. They gotta sell tickets. Do I get worked up because the Media is Sugar Coating the Raptors? No, I understand that if you got Lemons them make Lemon-Aid. Right now this team is one big Young Lemon.
And basketball is 90% mental is 10% physical. If you truly 'Believe' you'll hit that 3 ball.... you'll hit that 3ball!
I totally agree man. Bargs is by FAR our best player, and although statistically he has not matched some other former first round picks (who play other positions though), his performance on and off the court is fantastic. I love how people say an average of 17 and 6 and 1.5 blocks pg is "crap", considering he played 2nd fiddle in a non-motion offense based around CB.
Bargs is da man.
Bargs World Order
i hope he shaves more regularly this year. his beard always reminds me of that south park episode when Butters had testicles on his chin...
pure pube face
It is disgusting to listen to all the excuses being made for the SOFTEST so-called C/PF in the league! This softness is why Toronto doesn't win. Get hardcore thugs/bangers like Reg in large numbers so the Raps won't be laughed at anymore.
i would say 25% of the Raps misfortunes are on him. The rest is on Colangelo. Having said that Bargs still is an average player that wouldn't be able to start for any play-off team.
http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...drea-bargnani/Last season, Bargnani was 45th in the league in rebounding, despite being 42nd in minutes per game. 16 centers grabbed more rebounds than Bargnani did last season. All but 2 played fewer minutes than Bargnani. Per minute, Bargnani is even worse. Heís 79th overall or 30th in rebounding among centers. In fact, Bargnani was the second worst rebounding center in the entire league, ahead of only Ryan Hollins. And the only PFs who are worse rebounders are guys like Jeff Green and Rashard Lewis, who are naturally small forwards. Needless to say, Bargnani is a very, very poor rebounder.
THIS is what bugs me and why I'm often so vocal. Bargnani is a HORRIBLE rebounder. How can you say he's not? Just to add to my quote, among ALL centers, not just ones who qualified, Bargnani was 80th per 48 minutes. 80th!!!! You simply cannot defend that. You can sick your head in the sand all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that your statement is simply not true.
And no, Bosh didn't "take" rebounds away from Bargnani. Bargnani didn't rebound any better when Bosh was off the floor, and, besides, the Raptors were a poor rebounding team last year, so there were obviously rebounds available. They were just grabbed by the other team.
And in the preseason, he's rebounding at an even WORSE rate than last season.
As for you bringing up his shotblocking stats to defend his defense...
http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...drea-bargnani/One claim that some people make is that Bargnani is a good shotblocker so he MUST be a good interior defender. Well, no. Just as someone who gets a lot of steals is not automatically a great defender. Two perfect examples. Joe Dumars is one of the better perimeter defenders of all time, yet never averaged more than 1.1 spg his his entire career. On the other hand, Micheal Williams, who played his best years in Indiana and Minnesota, was a virtual sieve on defense, yet one year was second in the league in steals.
Same goes for blocks. One of the best big man defenders of all time was Dennis Rodman, who never even averaged a block per game. Karl Malone was another excellent defender who only averaged more than 1 bpg once in his entire career.
Personally, I love playing against shotblockers because they often arenít good defenders. They fall for fakes, are often out of position on defense and leave their man too quickly, making it easy to pass to them for a layup. A guy like Tyrus Thomas is a great shotblocker, but not a great defender. This is the case with Bargnani.
Bargnani actually gets a lot of his blocks on his man posting him up, often times without ever leaving his feet. Heís pretty good at doing this and CAN be a good post defender because he doesnít leave his feet. What he is not, however, is an intimidating lane presence. Players donít see him waiting for them and think twice. In fact if they see him waiting in the lane, itís often an invitation to drive the ball. Once in a while heíll get a block, but more often than not, the offensive player will get a layup.
Bargnani is a poor defender. Period. And with his defending more PFs so far, he's looking even worse because his only strength on defense is post defense, which he's not doing as much.
He literally doesn't seem to understand the basics of team defense. I don't know whether it's a concentration thing or what, but he doesn't rotate when he's supposed to, sometimes doesn't rotate at all and turns his back on the ball, which is something most kids learn not to do in grade school. Once in a while he'll get a block, but when you're 7 feet and play 36 mpg, you're bound to get a block every now and then when everyone is challenging you. Speaking of which, he's such a poor team defender that I've noticed teams actually focusing on driving at him. THAT is the sign of a bad defender.
"Bargnani was 80th per 48 minutes. 80th!!!! You simply cannot defend that."
How could Andrea grab rebounds when on *most* offensive plays coach has him parked out at the 3 point line?
I don't know what the opposing teams Shooting% was last years but I bet it was higher then most in the NBA. Meaning there wasn't a lot of opportunity for Defensive Rebounds because our team OVERALL defense was garbage.... But wait let's me get my Andrea Punching bag out one more time. Yep it was all your fault Andrea for your lack of help defense in a Wacked system.
How can a guy be blamed for his lack of Help defense when Calderon & Turkey-Glue hung him out to dry? How can a guy expect to play in a structured manner when the team clearly blew-up last year? I know Bargnani looks bewildered at times but maybe it's because he can't grasp the dilapidated team defense last year. He need a solid system to flourish. Not one that changes faster then Tiger's career.
You seem to have a lot of fire Tim W. but I think your riding Andrea a little to hard. We know how you feel about Bargnani, we read it over & over & over & over. Aren't your fingers exhausted from the Drea bashing train? Can you just let the train ride and bash....hmmmm I don't know.... somebody who deserves it. No wait.... lets bash our #1 option so he can feel welcome in T Dot. Big difference between talking about somebody's faults and Beating a Dead Horse into the Ground.
It all comes back to the #1 tag. Had he been taken 20th there would be no problem but he was taken 1st and with being taken first comes high expectations. In this case unrealistic expectations.
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