Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[Trife76]

Tell me about all those people who know baskball who respect your oppinion?

Why ? Who are you again ? lol

[Dan]

Trife, you see advanced statistics and don't have the brainpower to understand how it works... hence just saying it's crap from "nerds."

As a decently intelligent guy, I've seen that before - it's code for "I don't really understand how this formula works, so I can't actually disprove it or its relevance... I'll just say it's matrix crap from nerds!"

You're a clown, dude. It's not about co-signing - I can disagree with someone but respect their opinion. I don't think anyone here even respects what you're saying... so, quit being a tool and learn how to engage people properly.

or stop talking on message boards since you know everything already and won't listen to alternative opinions. actually, great idea!

[Captain Haddock]

Bargnani's 3 inches away from being one of the best SF's in the league.

[Arenick]

I can go with Bargs not getting rebounds because we have Evans tearing them all down, but here he has to step up and box out. But almost all is forgiven on 60% and 28 points. Just wished we had won the game. :-/

[Tim W.]

Tim, you've made 3 gem posts in this thread. They are so accurate about Bargnani that I think it's worth a sticky. I'm serious. I think I'll cut and paste them and frame them in my office. You've summed up what I've been thinking about Bargnani for the past 4 years. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. I'm putting you in my will.

[Tim W.]

"And, yes, DeMarcus Cousins out-muscled him a few times in the game in Sacramento the other night, about as much as Bargnani abused him earlier at the other end during parts of the game.

You remember the fourth quarter; some of you forget the other end and the fact that Cousins was only able to play 18 minutes because of foul trouble."

Dough Smith from The Star - November 03, 2010

It's a question of when those things happened. The last five minutes of a close game is the most important time in a game. Bargnani obviously had the best of Cousins early, but Cousins did what he was supposed to do an adjust to it. Cousins went by Bargnani several times after that for a basket and then handed him his ass on the offensive rebounds that killed the Raptors.

Doug Smith is a fine writer, but he's not a basketball analyst. His strengths are his reporting and his contacts, not his analysis. He knows the history of the game, and is great at finding out what's happening within the organization, but if you want to find out why, don't go to him.

[Tim W.]

Werd Tim sometimes says what im trying to say but without being long winded about it lol

Okay, you MUST be talking about someone else, then.

[Tim W.]

I'll have to disagree with you on that. If Orlando had Bargs (and paired him with Dwight), that team would have a dynamite Front Court. And it might be enough to take them to the Championship round.
.

Dwight Howard can certainly make up for Bargnani's inability to rebound and play team defense, but he can't nullify it. We saw what happens in the Kings game when a player who is a liability in certain essential areas is exposed. Teams isolate the weak defender and go at them. That's what team do right now to Bargnani. While Rashard Lewis is a horrible rebounder for a PF, he's actually a decent defender and does box out his man. That's the main reason he is able to play PF, even beside Howard, despite him being a natural SF.

[Liston]

Does he deserve a one-sided attack that doesn't take into consideration all the good things he did in the game - especially after a decent performance on the defensive end? I don't think so. This would have been so much more poignant after any number of games last year when he actually deserved heavy criticism - after the Monday night though it just seems petty.

Everyone has turned this simple example into an "attack" or "you're blaming Bargnani for the loss"
Since I captured them, I will say:
1) Bargnani has looked quite good offensively this year. We know he has these tools. Still needs to move the ball a little more, but progress has been made.
2) Bargnani is a solid post defender.
3) Bargnani is 25 years old, Cousins is 20 and has 3 games of NBA experience
4) Bargnani is the "go to" guy on our team.
5) Arguments that "it doesn't matter if Evans gets the rebounds" frustrate me to no end
6) Not once did I solely blame Bargnani for the loss. The lineup of Johnson, Andersen, Weems, Barbosa and Calderon was likely the primary reason.
7) Boxing out your own man on defense is as basic and fundamental as bball gets
8) Bargnani has a history of being a poor rebounder (don't give me the "but he plays outside" BS - he's poor on def rebounds as well).
9) Poor rebounding for a man that size, with that experience, is very frustrating
10) Bigs have outrebounded Bargnani at his own end of the floor. This is not acceptable.

There are improvements to Bargnani's game which deserve praise this year. There are also basic things that need to be improved upon. I simply pointed out one area. This is what we do.

[Trife76]

Trife, you see advanced statistics and don't have the brainpower to understand how it works... hence just saying it's crap from "nerds."

As a decently intelligent guy, I've seen that before - it's code for "I don't really understand how this formula works, so I can't actually disprove it or its relevance... I'll just say it's matrix crap from nerds!"

You're a clown, dude. It's not about co-signing - I can disagree with someone but respect their opinion. I don't think anyone here even respects what you're saying... so, quit being a tool and learn how to engage people properly.

or stop talking on message boards since you know everything already and won't listen to alternative opinions. actually, great idea!

Hows about you just stop following me around looking for attention Daniel..i know what those stats are and they are lame as is ur MO in this thread...I know allabout PER it doesnt quantify many things that happen on the court in that time period ur evaluating....

NOW please pay the rent or get off mines...

[Trife76]

Trife, you see advanced statistics and don't have the brainpower to understand how it works... hence just saying it's crap from "nerds."

As a decently intelligent guy, I've seen that before - it's code for "I don't really understand how this formula works, so I can't actually disprove it or its relevance... I'll just say it's matrix crap from nerds!"

You're a clown, dude. It's not about co-signing - I can disagree with someone but respect their opinion. I don't think anyone here even respects what you're saying... so, quit being a tool and learn how to engage people properly.

or stop talking on message boards since you know everything already and won't listen to alternative opinions. actually, great idea!

Also Daniel
its rather corny and clownish that you have made 2 posts in this thread and NONE about the topic at hand....rather 2 attempts to "get at me"

I think you should take some of ur own medicine young man and maybe trying arguing some basketball acumen before bothering to get back at me...

dweeeeb

[matt]

Bargnani's 3 inches away from being one of the best SF's in the league.

And I'm six inches aways from being a Porn star......

[matt]

Also Daniel
its rather corny and clownish that you have made 2 posts in this thread and NONE about the topic at hand....rather 2 attempts to "get at me"

I think you should take some of ur own medicine young man and maybe trying arguing some basketball acumen before bothering to get back at me...

dweeeeb

See Trife, we both agree on a lot of things but ur like a radical/extremist. You don't even try to look at what people are saying, you've already made up ur mind that Barney sucks and anything good he does has a negative impact on the team, you don't see "conversation," what you see is your words and those who oppose them.
We both know Barney doesn't suck, is he the ideal center for our team, or for any? heck no. Does he have toughness? Is he even italtian? sometimes I wonder. Point being is that we come in here, give our two cents, and hope we change peoples perspective (wake them up). We hope to give them insight on what is wrong with this team (Barney is a good start) and alter their view, lead them to right path of wisdom, give them..... ahh fuck it they'll never listen, but at least you try reasonably, not your "way"

[cornbreadd]

See Trife, we both agree on a lot of things but ur like a radical/extremist. You don't even try to look at what people are saying, you've already made up ur mind that Barney sucks and anything good he does has a negative impact on the team, you don't see "conversation," what you see is your words and those who oppose them.
We both know Barney doesn't suck, is he the ideal center for our team, or for any? heck no. Does he have toughness? Is he even italtian? sometimes I wonder. Point being is that we come in here, give our two cents, and hope we change peoples perspective (wake them up). We hope to give them insight on what is wrong with this team (Barney is a good start) and alter their view, lead them to right path of wisdom, give them..... ahh fuck it they'll never listen, but at least you try reasonably, not your "way"

That sort of reasoning and rational persepctive has no place on this thread

[matt]

That sort of reasoning and rational persepctive has no place on this thread

Well I don't care what you have to say BUT I will defend you rights to say it.

[theshareef]

Everyone has turned this simple example into an "attack" or "you're blaming Bargnani for the loss"

There are improvements to Bargnani's game which deserve praise this year. There are also basic things that need to be improved upon. I simply pointed out one area. This is what we do.

In using the word "attack" I was making reference to the posts following the original (which is just... I mean a series of pictures. Why would I equate that to an attack?) - more specifically, I felt that here, elsewhere on the internet and in my personal conversation people were using your pictures to say, "SEE HE SUCKS WE LOST BECAUSE OF HIM!!!" (something I never accused you of suggesting).

I posed a series of questions like "Where are the pictures of..." just to make the larger point that, amongst the most vocal anyway, it's very rare people go out of their way like this to credit Bargs for the good he does in game. (keeping in mind I'm on the TRADE HIM WHILE PEOPLE STILL THINK HE'S VALUABLE! bandwagon)

To me it just seems like tired, treaded ground: did we really need a shot for shot breakdown of something like this again? The "3" under "Rebs" didn't tell us that? After a game in which he played well? Maybe I've just stopped hoping he'd improve, but I felt this illuminated nothing.

It's like if after John Wall's near triple double someone posted a breakdown of all 8 turnovers - sure, it's a valid criticism but it misses the larger context of that player's contribution and casts an otherwise good performance in an unfairly dim light. It seems doubly silly because Bargs has been a terrible rebounder forever, Triano basically told us it hadn't improved, so what did you expect?

So I have no problem with the criticism itself - which is more than fair - it's just the context and timing of it's presentation seemed silly.

[JoePanini]

This thread should be closed

[Liston]

...amongst the most vocal anyway, it's very rare people go out of their way like this to credit Bargs for the good he does in game.

I wrote an entire piece on his improvement last year. I'll likely point out strengths again this year over the course of the season.
http://raptorsrepublic.com/2010/02/0...tter-bargnani/

[Frankthetank]

funny line. Trife if you could just be funny then we could except your stubborn point of view. But your not funny so we have to say funny things so people come to the forum. Next time your forum will be empty. Good luck and enjoy the rebuilding year. I do think we win 30 games min.. TO many crap teams in the east phil, new jersey, new york, wash, detroit, charlotte, cleveland. Were better then at least 4 of these teams

And I'm six inches aways from being a Porn star......

[theshareef]

I wrote an entire piece on his improvement last year. I'll likely point out strengths again this year over the course of the season.
http://raptorsrepublic.com/2010/02/0...tter-bargnani/

Cool, man. I wasn't really trying to make direct reference to you with that particular comment - the RR staff is mostly great about keeping things in perspective. Keep the stat breakdowns coming I always enjoy those.