I am sort of confused by this discussion. Bargs could improve or he could not, the fact is that right now he is good value for his contract. If he started averaging 9 rebounds a game, playing good D, and improved his scoring efficiency he would be worth significantly more than his contract, and in fact would probably by a max type guy.
Right now Bargs is owed $42 million over the next four years. That's $42 million for a 7 footer who plays average man D, spreads the floor well with his shooting, can play either the 5 or 4, and is still only 26. To put that in perspective, DeAndre Jordan, who will never be anywhere near the offensive player Bargs is and is basically on the same level as Amir Johnson at the moment (Shout out Tim W's blog) is getting 40 million for four years. Chandler, who admittedly is a champion and a great defensive anchor, is getting 60 million for 4 years 5 million a year more than Bargs, who is a far better offensive weapon. Basically if Bargs brings exactly the same thing this year that he brought last year, he is still a bargain compared to other bigs. Maybe this means we should trade him since his value is up, but for the moment I'm very happy with what he is bringing.
The key is how he should be used. Does he have to be Dirk? No. If he does some of the things Dirk does does that make us better? Yes. Opening up the floor on offense, creating mismatches, playing multiple positions, providing size, the guy just allows for so many different looks on offense and can make his teammates better by just being out there. He doesn't even have to be the number one option, in fact I'd like to see him take less shots and work on shooting a higher percentage, especially from 3. If Derozen can become a superstar type player, having a Bargnani to spread the floor and come out for the three will be very very effective.
Can he improve? I think it's ridiculous to say he can't, especially defensively. Regardless of whether or not he improves though, he is a very good player for what he is paid.
As far as him taking away minutes from Ed and Amir, I think you're making the assumption that minutes will not be earned this year and that Bargs will just play 35 minutes because he's Bargs. It will be a lot better for the development of these guys to have to earn minutes, which is what Casey preaches, than just being thrown out there because there is no one better.
"When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
Again, I've NEVER said that it was impossible for Bargnani to change. Never. Not once. I have said I have no faith in him doing so and that there is simply no evidence to support the argument that he will.
7 pages of posts in 24 hours...you have to like AB just for that alone.
The article title used the phrase "Sees Similarities Between" - this thread title used the words "thinks they're the same!!!". A simple example about how Raptors fans tend to exaggerate everything, good or bad, about Bargnani.
Last edited by Mess; Wed Dec 14th, 2011 at 04:24 PM.
Let me repeat that.
Bargnani is currently a liability on the court.
For all of DeAndre Jordan's weaknesses (and he does have them), he's not a liability to the team half the time he's on the court. There's a difference between not being an offensive threat and being a liability on offense. Reggie Evans was, for the most part, an offensive liability because even if you gave him the ball under the basket, there was a good chance he wouldn't put it in (although in his defense he's obviously a great offensive rebounder and an underrated passer, so that helps). Jordan shot over 65% from the field. No one can say he's a liability on offense, except in tight games when his free throw shooting could hurt his team, but he can simply be taken out, then.
Maybe im taking it too literally but this excerpt from your article kinda suggests youre expecting him to be traded before this season starts.Things seem to be going downhill fast for Bargnani in Toronto. All the evidence seems to point to Bargnani being traded before the start of next season. To me, it seemed like Colangelo has been planning it for sometime, slowly leaking the information out there in order to garner interest and ease the fans into the idea. His teammates, several of whom suggested the Raptors need a legit center, certainly don’t seem like they’d mind too much if Bargnani was in a different uniform. And if the Raptors are truly going to lose their identity of an offensive team that can’t play defense, they need to get rid of the poster child for that.
I think we truly are seeing the last days of Bargnani in Toronto.
Oh i guess now it changed coz of Casey? Figures.
Some coaches have an old school mentality, where sticking a small forward on a center would be unheard of. 7 foot jump shooters didn't exist 30 years ago, but times have changed, yet strategies may not have necessarily caught up.
Last edited by Nilanka; Wed Dec 14th, 2011 at 04:38 PM.
It looks like you do think you are Nostradamus. Just man up and say "I was really expecting him to get traded but it didnt happen, so lets move on". I wouldnt think any less of you as i do now.I think we truly are seeing the last days of Bargnani in Toronto.
Ive said this to you before, its never-ending. If Bargnani surprises us all, people are still going to say, well its not enough. If he continues to disappoint, well, people are going to say I told you so.
How do I view Dirk as a rebounder? For his career pretty close to average. This last year a below average rebounder. But he is also 33 years old (not 26), and provides a lot more on both ends of the floor.
But I fail to see how Dirk has anything to do with it.
No one is asking Bargnani to be 'great' at rebounding. Just around average... as was said in the first place. There were approx 36 big men (who played enough minutes/games) who average 10 rebounds per 36. There were 80 big men who averaged 10 rebounds per 36 (that includes all big men). Expecting Bargnani to average somewhere in the neighboorhood of 9-10 rebounds per game is not asking him to be great.
(just off hand there were 36 players who average a 24% DRR (rounded up)... I don't think being at the bottom end of 36 others is greatness)
hahahahaha. hey Apollo there's still 1 more week before the season starts.Welcome to at least one more season of Andrea Bargnani, Tim. Enjoy.
Maybe Casey is just hyping up Bargnani's pre-season work ethic so some GM will offer a trade!
In the article and Casey's defense, (and I admit haven't read through all 7 pages because I'm sure it's been derailed into a general AB discussion) I'd argue that Bargnani has the most similar offensive skillset to Dirk than any other player in the league. Similar, not equal. And I'm including the matchup problems they create as part of their skillset.
Why wouldn't you want Casey to run sets that worked for Dirk and put him into a good position to score or create for others?
Everyone knows the sets would be more effective if you had Dirk rather than Bargnani. But what else are the Raptors we going to run? JC and Amir pick and rolls? DD baseline backdoor alleyoops? That damn Longhorns (or whatever) play Sam Mitchell used to run every single time down the court?
That's all that article and quotes are saying - with some added hyperbole for confidence boosting and PR hype.
But I suppose you can't have an article that compliments Bargnani on his offensive game without everyone chiming in about how he's lacking in other (maybe every other) areas.
I wonder...if Phil Jackson was coaching the Raptors this year and he said he has some sets he wants to run for DD because they worked for Kobe, how big the outcry would be here in RR.
His team defense is "atrocious", particularly when he has to make more than one rotation, but then he has never had another good defensive player around him to key off. If we are going with the Nowitzki comparison, Dirk had his struggles on defense too. Once he had a good defensive center put beside him to work with he got better and eventually became the average player we see today. It's not rocket science, having no one on the team who knows how to play team D as a center gives no example for Bargs to follow. Maybe this will be corrected this season by the addition of Magloir and Casey, maybe not.
If you think DeAndre Jordan isn't a liability on offense, you haven't watched him enough. The guy is not only a terrible, terrible free throw shooter, he is useless beyond two feet from the basket, and he is just plain bad in the pick and roll. Without Blake to attract attention, he'd be useless. The only reason he isn't a complete loss is his freaky athleticism which could eventually let him become a better player. This is not Dwight Howard 2, Dwight has always been a pick and roll monster.
"When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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