View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #841
    Raptors Republic Rookie Blasterfi9's Avatar
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    Might as well let us be delusional... dark times look to be ahead for the raptors might as well let some of us be happy if it mean we think Bargs is that good at the moment -_-

  2. #842
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    when people are scared to deal with the truth, they will believe anything that helps them sleep at night...

    when you learn to deal with your emotions, and realize hey everything i thought about BC was not true, and yes i admit i was conned, its only then you can open your eyes and see the light...

    until then, many of us will continue to think bargs is a #1 player on a playoff team...

    also when you really understand basketball, you know rebounding and defense are as important if not more important than scoring... but some of us are mostly still attracted to the big who can shoot three's like a little shiny piece of foil...

  3. #843
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    i dont even think boston would trade their 27th overall pick kendrik perkins for bargnani.
    Last edited by vinnie_paz; Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 10:42 PM.

  4. #844
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    Bargnani is the type of player that, if you're a casual fan, it's easy to overrate. Looking at his skills individually, he looks great. He's a 7 footer that can do what few 7 footers can do. He DOES have above average ball handling skills, mobility and outside shooting skills for a guy his size. Once in a while he WILL do something that looks spectacular. And that makes you think he can do that on a regular basis if given the chance. If you ignore his weaknesses, it's easy to see why some people have a hard on for the guy. More importantly if you ignore how problematic those weaknesses can be, you're going to think that Bargnani is better than he actually is.

    He's a big man who is a below average rebounder and team defender, which are two very important qualities for a big man. It's like a 6'0 player who isn't a good ball handler or passer. He might be a fantastic shooter, but if you're 6 feet and can't handle the ball or pass very well, it's a major, major issue.

    His best quality is his scoring but can't create his own shot or get to the line. Again, we're talking about a major problem. Bargnani may be very mobile and an above average ball handler for his size, but if his absolute best quality is his scoring, and he can't create his own shot or get to the line, just how useful is that skill? It means he's going to have to depend on others creating for him and it also means he's going to be inconsistent, both of which have been the case over the course of his career.

    Bargnani is a small forward in a center's body. In just about every way. Unfortunately, he can't defend the small forward position. You could live with his rebounding numbers and poor team defense at the SF position, but not at the 4 or 5. There it's a major liability.

    Fans see what they want to see. They want to see a fabulous shooter who can do things that amaze them on the court. They don't want to hear about Bargnani's faults and what a liability they can be and why it means he's not a top 10 center. They overvalue scoring and undervalue defense and rebounding because the former seems to require more skill. It doesn't, but it looks a lot prettier.

  5. #845
    Raptors Republic Rookie Blasterfi9's Avatar
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    Ha i highly doubt that... Boston would trade perkins in a second for bargnani.... helps them get younger, add more offence.... and well cause Perkins is rly badly injured and wont be able to play for quite a while. Whole reason they went on an O'neal signing spree. BUT still, they totally do the trade -_-

  6. #846
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    The truth is there are no many good centres these days.
    And of those few that are there, half of them have a hard time to stay healthy enough
    to contribute.

  7. #847
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    The truth is there are no many good centres these days.
    And of those few that are there, half of them have a hard time to stay healthy enough
    to contribute.

  8. #848
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    Quote Blasterfi9 wrote: View Post
    Ha i highly doubt that... Boston would trade perkins in a second for bargnani.... helps them get younger, add more offence.... and well cause Perkins is rly badly injured and wont be able to play for quite a while. Whole reason they went on an O'neal signing spree. BUT still, they totally do the trade -_-
    Well, first of all, Kendrick Perkins is only a year older than Bargnani. And while trading for Bargnani would certainly give them more offense, it takes away a lot of defense and rebounding. This is exactly my point in my post above. Many fans value offense over defense and rebounding. Defense and rebounding gave the Celtics a Championship. They have four players on the roster already who can hit for 20 on a regular basis. Why on earth would they need Bargnani?

    As for the injury, that is a problem this coming season, but Perkins has been pretty healthy over the years, so there's no reason to think it's going to be a problem.

    No, I don't think Boston would trade Perkins for Bargnani. If I were the Raptors, I would do it, though.

  9. #849
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Well, first of all, Kendrick Perkins is only a year older than Bargnani. And while trading for Bargnani would certainly give them more offense, it takes away a lot of defense and rebounding. This is exactly my point in my post above. Many fans value offense over defense and rebounding. Defense and rebounding gave the Celtics a Championship. They have four players on the roster already who can hit for 20 on a regular basis. Why on earth would they need Bargnani?

    As for the injury, that is a problem this coming season, but Perkins has been pretty healthy over the years, so there's no reason to think it's going to be a problem.

    No, I don't think Boston would trade Perkins for Bargnani. If I were the Raptors, I would do it, though.
    would you trade Bargnani for Javale McGee?
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    Quote Blasterfi9 wrote: View Post
    Ha i highly doubt that... Boston would trade perkins in a second for bargnani.... helps them get younger, add more offence.... and well cause Perkins is rly badly injured and wont be able to play for quite a while. Whole reason they went on an O'neal signing spree. BUT still, they totally do the trade -_-
    perk is one of the few centers who can guard dwight... and he did a great job against gasol/bynum....

    isnt that more valuable than a guy who can just score ?

  11. #851
    Raptors Republic Rookie Blasterfi9's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Well, first of all, Kendrick Perkins is only a year older than Bargnani. And while trading for Bargnani would certainly give them more offense, it takes away a lot of defense and rebounding. This is exactly my point in my post above. Many fans value offense over defense and rebounding. Defense and rebounding gave the Celtics a Championship. They have four players on the roster already who can hit for 20 on a regular basis. Why on earth would they need Bargnani?

    As for the injury, that is a problem this coming season, but Perkins has been pretty healthy over the years, so there's no reason to think it's going to be a problem.

    No, I don't think Boston would trade Perkins for Bargnani. If I were the Raptors, I would do it, though.
    Yes he's a year older... but, still it would technically make them younger overall -_-. Also considering they're cnetres with the o'neals, they have good defence if not as good D with Jermaine who also plays better offence then Perkins. If i was boston i totally do that deal in a second perks for Bargs. It can really bolster their bench by a mile, and on top of that no way Raptors do the trade. Kendricks is out for like half the season from early reports, you honeslty think the raptors do this trade for damged goods and end up with wat Anderson or Alabi starting at centre, and the only postion we won't suck at completely become out biggest weakness from playing undersized or unskilled players?

  12. #852
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Bargnani is the type of player that, if you're a casual fan, it's easy to overrate. Looking at his skills individually, he looks great. He's a 7 footer that can do what few 7 footers can do. He DOES have above average ball handling skills, mobility and outside shooting skills for a guy his size. Once in a while he WILL do something that looks spectacular. And that makes you think he can do that on a regular basis if given the chance. If you ignore his weaknesses, it's easy to see why some people have a hard on for the guy. More importantly if you ignore how problematic those weaknesses can be, you're going to think that Bargnani is better than he actually is.

    He's a big man who is a below average rebounder and team defender, which are two very important qualities for a big man. It's like a 6'0 player who isn't a good ball handler or passer. He might be a fantastic shooter, but if you're 6 feet and can't handle the ball or pass very well, it's a major, major issue.

    His best quality is his scoring but can't create his own shot or get to the line. Again, we're talking about a major problem. Bargnani may be very mobile and an above average ball handler for his size, but if his absolute best quality is his scoring, and he can't create his own shot or get to the line, just how useful is that skill? It means he's going to have to depend on others creating for him and it also means he's going to be inconsistent, both of which have been the case over the course of his career.

    Bargnani is a small forward in a center's body. In just about every way. Unfortunately, he can't defend the small forward position. You could live with his rebounding numbers and poor team defense at the SF position, but not at the 4 or 5. There it's a major liability.

    Fans see what they want to see. They want to see a fabulous shooter who can do things that amaze them on the court. They don't want to hear about Bargnani's faults and what a liability they can be and why it means he's not a top 10 center. They overvalue scoring and undervalue defense and rebounding because the former seems to require more skill. It doesn't, but it looks a lot prettier.
    +100. This is a fair post, IMO. Kind of like the early Vince Carter, you get caught up in the excitement of the spectacular dunk once in a while, and ignore the massive flaws. Way too many flaws to build around or be the franchise guy.

    And the other thing we have to realize is that there are a number of mobile players over 6-10 who can things that Bargs can do and more. Troy Murphy, Mehmet Okur, Channing Frye, Matt Bonner, Charlie V, Ryan Anderson. Rasheed Wallace. Many of those guys are better rebounders. Bargs is not really all that special, and as the poster pointed out, some of what makes him special are highlight reel stuff that doesn't really win any games consistently.

  13. #853
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    would you trade Bargnani for Javale McGee?
    Throw in a second rounder and I would.

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    Quote Blasterfi9 wrote: View Post
    Yes he's a year older... but, still it would technically make them younger overall -_-. Also considering they're cnetres with the o'neals, they have good defence if not as good D with Jermaine who also plays better offence then Perkins. If i was boston i totally do that deal in a second perks for Bargs. It can really bolster their bench by a mile, and on top of that no way Raptors do the trade. Kendricks is out for like half the season from early reports, you honeslty think the raptors do this trade for damged goods and end up with wat Anderson or Alabi starting at centre, and the only postion we won't suck at completely become out biggest weakness from playing undersized or unskilled players?
    dude you're missing the point... o'neal and o'neal are temporary replacements and will only last a year or two... perk is the starting centre when he comes back. and for many years to come...

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    Quote Blasterfi9 wrote: View Post
    Yes he's a year older... but, still it would technically make them younger overall -_-. Also considering they're cnetres with the o'neals, they have good defence if not as good D with Jermaine who also plays better offence then Perkins. If i was boston i totally do that deal in a second perks for Bargs. It can really bolster their bench by a mile, and on top of that no way Raptors do the trade. Kendricks is out for like half the season from early reports, you honeslty think the raptors do this trade for damged goods and end up with wat Anderson or Alabi starting at centre, and the only postion we won't suck at completely become out biggest weakness from playing undersized or unskilled players?
    do you think boston would risk losing a center who has proven to be one of the best defenders at that position in the league for bargnani ?

    is boston more likely to win a title with perkins defending dwight, noah, and gasol or are they more likely to win with bargs ?

  16. #856
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    They overvalue scoring and undervalue defense and rebounding because the former seems to require more skill. It doesn't, but it looks a lot prettier.
    I think it is also because of the way that the game is played and scored.

    If each team got one point for an opposing teams turnover, two points for a missed shot and three for a steal but nothing for putting the ball through the rim than fans would value defense more than offense.

    In those circumstances every defensive stop whether it was a turnover, steal or missed shot would add to the team's point total.

    So in effect the game would be reversed. Teams would attempt to score to keep their opponents from adding points. Teams would work harder to stop their opponents from scoring because they would earn points form stopping their opponent from scoring.

    Fans would then take a lot more notice of defense.
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  17. #857
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    I think it is also because of the way that the game is played and scored.

    If each team got one point for an opposing teams turnover, two points for a missed shot and three for a steal but nothing for putting the ball through the rim than fans would value defense more than offense.

    In those circumstances every defensive stop whether it was a turnover, steal or missed shot would add to the team's point total.

    So in effect the game would be reversed. Teams would attempt to score to keep their opponents from adding points. Teams would work harder to stop their opponents from scoring because they would earn points form stopping their opponent from scoring.

    Fans would then take a lot more notice of defense.
    u need help...

    THERE IS VALUE in defense, and just cuz you dont see it, doesnt mean everyone doesnt.

    ask celtic fans how much they value the efforts of a tony allen, pj brown, or james posey...

    those guys are always more valued than a nate robinson or marquis daniels...

    real fans know and you who said you watched a lot of piston games should know it too.

  18. #858
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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    perk is the starting centre when he comes back.
    As much as I'd like to agree with you, Doc Rivers said after the Shaq presser that when Perkins returns from injury, his starting job is not guaranteed. He will have to play for it.

  19. #859
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    Oh jeeze. Vinnie, don't argue with Buddah.

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    Quote Introcollapse wrote: View Post
    As much as I'd like to agree with you, Doc Rivers said after the Shaq presser that when Perkins returns from injury, his starting job is not guaranteed. He will have to play for it.
    he just says that to keep shaq interested in the games when its mid january...

    i meant when the whole o'neal experiment is done and perk is back to 100%.

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