View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #1761
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    I'll repeat what Arsenalist stated earlier, Bargnani gets trashed way more than is warranted. The only person I used to ignore on this site was FAQ, now I'm starting to ignore posters who's stuff I used to enjoy reading because of their aversion to Bargnani. It's going to be a long five years (or until he gets traded).

  2. #1762
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    Most who remember me from RaptorsForum know I've always been extremely critical of Andrea, but recently I even feel alot of the criticism isn't warranted. Am I concerned about his issues with rebounding? Sure, but the positives right now to me regarding Andrea outweigh the lack of rebounding. JMO

  3. #1763
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    I'm with Michael G...quite a few well earned "ignore" posters....and with the Jazz front court tomorrow might be a good blog "blackout" day (can I resist? Probably not).

  4. #1764
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    Good point about bringing up Andreas shot %...whether he is in the post more is kinda irreelvant cuz we know he is a perimter player...but his FG % stinks for a big man...

  5. #1765
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    ^ Of course the BIGGER issue is with Andrea these are NOT isloated incidents which is why it accumulates into a thread like this....if Andrea had one lousy rebounding game where he missed assignments but its a continual consistent night to night thing...therefore the blame is more than warranted...

  6. #1766
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    And I prefer to demand that a player do, at least, the minimum his position calls for. But that's just me.
    Alright, granted, he's not rebounding like a frontcourt player needs to. But understanding that, what would you do about it? He has a guaranteed contract, and this club desperately needs his scoring. This team has a far greater weakness -- no wing offense at all. Scratch that. It has no wing production of any kind. If Bargnani suddenly went down with an injury, the team would be worse.

    Here is a summary of the five options available to the Raptors:

    1. Hope he gets better.
    2. Trade him.
    3. Cut him/buy him out.
    4. Bench him until he dummies up.
    5. Play him next to a frontcourt player who does well all the things Bargnani doesn't (Dwight Howard, for instance).

    Of course we can all just hope he gets better, but as Dave Berri says "hope is not a plan". Allegedly he can be traded (if Colangelo can be believed). But whatever comes back had better be able to score a lot of points. Bargnani could be bought out or released at great expense, but that wouldn't make the team better. Benching him wouldn't make the team better, and he'd likely just demand a trade, and he'd have leverage since he has a guaranteed contract and will be paid regardless of his court time.

    Realistically the only thing that can be done in the near term is to disguise his weaknesses by playing him next to a player like Evans, or ideally someone better than Evans (a shallow, one-dimensional player if there ever was one) who could be brought in using the TPE.

    This is the ideal type of player the Raptors need to aim for to play next to Bargnani. A player that can: defend the post, guard the rim, push big bodies out of the lane, score inside like a machine, block shots, pass the ball out of double-teams, and set screens and score off the pick and roll.

  7. #1767
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Andrea Bargnani 26 PT 8-19 FG 8-9 FT 2-3 3P 9/4 RB 3 AS 2 BL 0 ST 3 TO 4 PF 36 MN (Final, Jazz)
    Are you guys happy?

  8. #1768
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    They need to move him to power forward and put him beside a guy like chandler or haywood from dallas. Reggie is decent enough for now but his offense is to limited and to much of a liability. Reggie definitely got quick this summer and its helping his d but he doesn't block shots and is liability on O.
    WIthout ANdrea this team would be last in the league. At least ANdrea really can score. THis isn't a ball licking ceremony but so far is reality.
    The team is young and will make tonnes of errors but if they can come together and learn to play smart together they could be like the Oklahoma city in a year or two. Demar and sonny are really athletic young guys who could become good in a year or two. Much happier watching this team compared to the lazy team last year.

  9. #1769
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    Are you guys happy?

    4 rebs

    No

  10. #1770
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    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    They need to move him to power forward and put him beside a guy like chandler or haywood from dallas. Reggie is decent enough for now but his offense is to limited and to much of a liability. Reggie definitely got quick this summer and its helping his d but he doesn't block shots and is liability on O.
    WIthout ANdrea this team would be last in the league. At least ANdrea really can score. THis isn't a ball licking ceremony but so far is reality.
    The team is young and will make tonnes of errors but if they can come together and learn to play smart together they could be like the Oklahoma city in a year or two. Demar and sonny are really athletic young guys who could become good in a year or two. Much happier watching this team compared to the lazy team last year.

    They are going to be last in the league WITH Andrea so ur saying nothing at all....whoopty doo he scoring on a terrible team..somebody has to score on a terrible ass team...its meaningless much like ur weak arguments...

  11. #1771
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    Really people? I just want to end all of this with his score line against the Utah Jazz. 26 points (8-19, 2-3, 8-9) 9 rebounds (4 offensive, Reggie had 6 rebounds) 3 assists, 2 blocks. Now he also had a +/- of -19, worst of the team. Now, in the past three games, Andrea has ALWAYS had a positive +/-, and the games were all pretty close or we won. Now we lost by 20 (yes, I know it's the Jazz) but Bargnani got nearly a double-double.
    So I hope all you people are happy, cause he got rebounds. And did we win? What will you blame Bargnani on the loss now??

  12. #1772
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    Really people? I just want to end all of this with his score line against the Utah Jazz. 26 points (8-19, 2-3, 8-9) 9 rebounds (4 offensive, Reggie had 6 rebounds) 3 assists, 2 blocks. Now he also had a +/- of -19, worst of the team. Now, in the past three games, Andrea has ALWAYS had a positive +/-, and the games were all pretty close or we won. Now we lost by 20 (yes, I know it's the Jazz) but Bargnani got nearly a double-double.
    So I hope all you people are happy, cause he got rebounds. And did we win? What will you blame Bargnani on the loss now??
    They lost by 17 why are you even talking ?
    Anybody can score and pad stats when you get blown the f1uck out....and one game where he boards 9 times doesnt erase 4 seasons of crap....

    Seriously why are you talking ?
    Somebody has to score on bad teams...it doesnt mean a thing..he isnt going to no all star game...it just means he has freedom to do whatever he wants whenever he wants cuz this team is going to win 22 games this year which means theres no pressure on him....

    Andrea is never going to lead a winning/contending team and tonights stats aside he is mad inconsistent...tonight just proves he can pad his stats when getting blown out and ur dumbass looks at it like some kind of accomplishment...

  13. #1773
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    4 rebs

    No
    9. 4 offensive.

  14. #1774
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    9. 4 offensive.
    1 game lost by 17
    =
    meaningless

  15. #1775
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    1 game lost by 17
    =
    meaningless
    exactly my point. the games where he didn't rebound we won, or was close. The game where he rebounds we lose by 20. Which Bargnani do you prefer?

  16. #1776
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    Its funny. He's last on RPG (3) and second last in RPG per 48 (4.3), of all 55 centres. He's only better than Solomon jones.

    He's relatively high on the list in blocks, but he's low in steals.

    He's also second worst in TOPG.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...sition/centers

    Overall, I think he needs to get substantially better before this team starts winning (not padding his offensive stats). Or we get a Howard type player to play along side him (impossible).

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Let's get one thing straight, Bargnani's rebounding is not close to the teams biggest problem and it's not causing losses. I don't give a crap who grabs the board. If Evans grabs 15 and Bargnani grabs 4, I don't care. All I care is that somebody getting it. Meanwhile Andrea is shooting 50% from the field and 55% from downtown.

    FYI, #9. That's where the Raptors rank so far this season in fewest offensive rebounds allowed.

    Source: ESPN.com

    Same page, they ranked 7th in average rebounds per game this season so far. That's a +3.6 differential, good for 8th overall.

  17. #1777
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    exactly my point. the games where he didn't rebound we won, or was close. The game where he rebounds we lose by 20. Which Bargnani do you prefer?
    I prefer the one whos the 3rd option on the team or comes off the bench...

  18. #1778
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Alright, granted, he's not rebounding like a frontcourt player needs to. But understanding that, what would you do about it? He has a guaranteed contract, and this club desperately needs his scoring. This team has a far greater weakness -- no wing offense at all. Scratch that. It has no wing production of any kind. If Bargnani suddenly went down with an injury, the team would be worse.

    Here is a summary of the five options available to the Raptors:

    1. Hope he gets better.
    2. Trade him.
    3. Cut him/buy him out.
    4. Bench him until he dummies up.
    5. Play him next to a frontcourt player who does well all the things Bargnani doesn't (Dwight Howard, for instance).

    Of course we can all just hope he gets better, but as Dave Berri says "hope is not a plan". Allegedly he can be traded (if Colangelo can be believed). But whatever comes back had better be able to score a lot of points. Bargnani could be bought out or released at great expense, but that wouldn't make the team better. Benching him wouldn't make the team better, and he'd likely just demand a trade, and he'd have leverage since he has a guaranteed contract and will be paid regardless of his court time.

    Realistically the only thing that can be done in the near term is to disguise his weaknesses by playing him next to a player like Evans, or ideally someone better than Evans (a shallow, one-dimensional player if there ever was one) who could be brought in using the TPE.

    This is the ideal type of player the Raptors need to aim for to play next to Bargnani. A player that can: defend the post, guard the rim, push big bodies out of the lane, score inside like a machine, block shots, pass the ball out of double-teams, and set screens and score off the pick and roll.
    The only logical option is to trade him and try and find a team is entranced by his offensive skills. You can only hide a player's liabilities for so long, but they're often exposed during crunch time, like they were against Sacramento. No matter who you put him beside, it doesn't eliminate his weaknesses. They always rear their ugly head, and often at the worst times.

    As for those who feel the criticism is unwarranted, maybe we're all just sick and tired of seeing the same goddamn problems from the same player year after year, and sick of so many Raptor fans trying to tell us that the piece of junk jewelry they found is really a priceless diamond neckless.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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  19. #1779
    Raptors Republic Starter cornbreadd's Avatar
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    Andrea is never going to lead a winning/contending team and tonights stats aside he is mad inconsistent...tonight just proves he can pad his stats when getting blown out and ur dumbass looks at it like some kind of accomplishment...
    Nobody is saying that Andrea is a number 1 option on a contending team, Bosh wasn't and he is a better player than Bargs.

    That being said, I think your constant bashing of Bargs is unreasonable. You say his defenders are biased and stupid. but you are exactly the same. He can't rebound for shite, but he is the best scorer on the team and like it or not his man-on-man defense is not atrocious (help defense is another matter altogher though). Your are right, someone does have to put up points for the team, what's your point? He's not playing against inferior opposition, and he's getting to the line more than previous years, overall he has stepped it up.

    The role of a centre is traditionally to defend and rebound, but I don't see why you can't win with someone who is a non-traditional centre (Dirk). If you pair him with good players, next to a centre who can defend and rebound (Reggie cannot play good defense), a good point guard and wingers, then that team is going to do well.

  20. #1780
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    and Joseph you dont have a point because ur a ridiculous stan of this guy....

    We also didnt win either game he scored 26 and 28 points...so now ur point is what ?
    The game in Utah we werent going to win...so the stats are meaningless..the game in SAC we could have won...the rebounding and defense was a factor,you cant win this argument cuz you have no examples top support you
    Me on the other hand eveyr thing i said about him has been the truth....i said hed score and we'd be terrible....go back to 05-06 Mike James scored 20 a game and we stunk....does it mean he was an all star ? does it mean he was a front line player ? No it didnt mean anything other than someone HAS to score on a POS team.....
    ....now toss that uranium in the spin cycle...

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