Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[Tim W.]

Actually his rebounding and blocking has gotten better ever year... stat wise. It's still not great but he has improved...

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/playe...jLJlU.R9MTRwU6

You're looking at his totals. The main difference is that Bargnani is getting more minutes, not that his rebounding is getting any better. Bargnani averaged 10 more minutes a game from his rookie season to his fourth.

As for blocking, since it is absolutely no indication of how good a defender a player is, there's no point in looking at it (although it's not any better, either). Watching him play, I've seen really no improvement in his team defense. After four years, he still appears to have no real clue of what to do and when to do it. By the time you get to Bargnani's age, it should be instinctual, but it's not. Beyond all the hype and arguing, this should be extremely troubling to any Raptor fan. You should never, ever have to teach a 25 year old basketball player who's been playing in the NBA for four years basic team defense. It's not coaching because he's had some of the best coaching in the world the last ten years.

[nubreed000]

Haters

You guys are OK with "giving Demar a chance" though. His #'s and skillz aint sh*t compared to Bargs. Gimme a break.

lol 2 + 2 = 5!!

[black angus]

Is this really news - I thought everyone knew Bargs is a bench player - Toronto just doen's have any other options.

[dagon420]

I know this must come up every once in a while. But would you take Aldridge if you could do the draft over again?

[Buddahfan]

I would rather have

Roy
Gay
Rondo
Milsap

Over either of those guys

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Well Bargs proved once again today he can rebound and play well.

Andrea Bargnani 23 PT 8-19 FG 5-6 FT 2-5 3P 9/3 RB 2 AS 1 BL 2 ST 5 TO 0 PF 38 MN (Final, Bobcats)

[dagon420]

Yea, its all good in hindsight. Most of the top of that draft class sucked though. BC went with the guy with the most upside, but I would still take Aldridge though. Tyrus Thomas is starting to look promising too eh.

[Mack North]

I was all for getting Aldridge, but I don't know if he'd have faired much better than Bargs on the Raptors. He couldn't handle the C position IMO. Present moment I'd still take him over Bargnani, though I'd take all the guys Buddah mentioned over both as well. I've been on the Millsap bandwagon since he was a rook and killed the Raps one game early that season. Glad to see he's getting the chance to shine as a starter now.

[lyrical militia]

i rather have andrea no lie

[Buddahfan]

I would rather have

Roy
Gay
Rondo
Milsap

Over either of those guys

If you put those four guys on the court with Bargnani you would have a pretty good group of five.

C - Bargnani
PF - Milsap
SF - Gay
SG - Roy
PG - Rondo

Not too shabby.

[Mack North]

If you put those four guys on the court with Bargnani you would have a pretty good group of five.

C - Bargnani
PF - Milsap
SF - Gay
SG - Roy
PG - Rondo

Not too shabby.

And Rondo might be the best rebounder! lol, alright, close second to Millsap...

[Imperial]

Yeah, while also being allergic to clutch.

Who cares about his numbers when he can't come through when the team really needs him.

[Tim W.]

Well Bargs proved once again today he can rebound and play well.

Can we please not take specific games as proof of anything? Otherwise the next bad game he plays someone else will use that as "proof he sucks". He played well tonight, despite the turnovers. It's a long season, though. He's never had a problem having good rebound games once in a while. This is the same guy who grabbed 17 in a game last year. The problem is he finished the season with 6. Obviously consistency is the problem with rebounding. And it obviously still is.

I actually thought his defense was decent tonight, as well. Certainly not great, but decent. If he continues to play like this regularly, I will take back everything I've said about the guy.

[Tim W.]

Are we being offered the choice?

[Beaverboi]

At least we didn't take the guy that was picked third that year....

[JoePanini]

LOL @ the hate towards Bargnani. I am fan so obviously I am labeled as biased and all, also because I'm Italian. But I think the guy gets too much shit. When he has a good game, which didn't happen often last year although he has had 3 or maybe just maybe 4 decent games this year already, people still either hate or say it was one game. When he plays badly then people hate. So unless he drops 30 and grabs 10 rebounds he will pretty much always get hate. I think it is unfair towards him, I actually don't like complaining about our players unless it's something really annoying like Bargnani's turnover last night (but he had a good game overall, c'mon) but complaining is alright. But many here go beyond complaining, people actually try and pick on every little defect, finding all the possible reasons to hate him. I don't see why Bargnani gets all this heat, yet Kleiza who has been semi-decent doesn't, and Amir who has had 2 great games this season after playing like shit for the first 10 days is considered "better" than Bargnani. If you dislike him, that's alright, but when you've put your point out there, there is no need to just keep on going on and on about what he's bad at.
I'm sorry, but it really annoys be both as a Bargnani and Raptors fan.
This forum is for discussion, which is why I joined it. It is to discuss the Raptors, about the games and how they play. Even when you talk about Bargnani, but people here when they start talking about Bargnani they just rant about him.
Oh and by people I don't mean anyone in particular and not most people on this forum, just some people who are really persistent.

[Imperial]

Whether the team says it or not, Bargnani is #1 on this team. The #1 normally takes the most heat with the team struggles. Bargnani has been expected to do the heaving lifting on this team, Amir Johnson, has not. He only expect to bring energy and rebound, which he does when he's not fucking up by fouling everyone.

[Captain Haddock]

I will back up Panini on this point. Just from reading these forums, I get the impression that Andrea has individually come to each poster's house and done the nasty with their mothers.
Andrea is what he is, he is NOT the (only) reason the Raptors are 1-7. The reason we are 1-7 is because of:
1. A coach who starts Evans, who can rebound and....and....grow a beard. Oh and he's also overrated as a one on one defender, has horrible hands and immediately guarantees a double team on your best player.
2. A sophomore player who some have anointed the chosen one, even though he has yet to prove he's a deserving starter in this league. He's got potential, yes, but he's also kept some bad habits since last year that he should have exorcised by now (tunnel vision, poor screen and roll coverage, can get overly frustrated, etc.)
3. A bench that consists of a Brazilian with a broken arm, Buddahfan's love child who has been about as consistent this year as Rolex from Pacific Mall (it's funny because it's a place!), an Aussie who's called "the poor man's Bargnani" (albeit, with nice dream shake against Stoudemire capabilities), Jamario Moon v2.0, and Julian Wright, who...I like. I'll say it.
4. We have no one who can create their own shot aside from Barbosa, who looks like he'd rather die than pass to a teammate (although, would YOU pass to these teammates?)
5. A starting PG who seems to think he actually deserves to be a starting PG in the NBA while playing like D-league all star, and a backup PG who looks like a Brad Pitt in the cop car at the end of Seven.
6. A starting SF who...looked great in the World Championships, which always translates to NBA success and makes me long for the days of Turkeyglue and Belinelli.
7. Jay "I'm a nice guy, and Canadian too!" Triano
8. Bryan "I should be better than this" Colangelo

Honestly, we're like the Tea Party (movement, not so bad they're good band). We lost? Bargnani! We play terrible team D? Bargnani! We have no one who can create their own shot? Bargnani! Throw that bum out, let's elect these new bums who still report to the same chiefs, who still call all the shots and have left a situation so rotten that nothing short of bankruptcy and perhaps even a complete dissolution of power will save us!

[Multipaul]

I will back up Panini on this point. Just from reading these forums, I get the impression that Andrea has individually come to each poster's house and done the nasty with their mothers.
Andrea is what he is, he is NOT the (only) reason the Raptors are 1-7. The reason we are 1-7 is because of:
1. A coach who starts Evans, who can rebound and....and....grow a beard. Oh and he's also overrated as a one on one defender, has horrible hands and immediately guarantees a double team on your best player.
2. A sophomore player who some have anointed the chosen one, even though he has yet to prove he's a deserving starter in this league. He's got potential, yes, but he's also kept some bad habits since last year that he should have exorcised by now (tunnel vision, poor screen and roll coverage, can get overly frustrated, etc.)
3. A bench that consists of a Brazilian with a broken arm, Buddahfan's love child who has been about as consistent this year as Rolex from Pacific Mall (it's funny because it's a place!), an Aussie who's called "the poor man's Bargnani" (albeit, with nice dream shake against Stoudemire capabilities), Jamario Moon v2.0, and Julian Wright, who...I like. I'll say it.
4. We have no one who can create their own shot aside from Barbosa, who looks like he'd rather die than pass to a teammate (although, would YOU pass to these teammates?)
5. A starting PG who seems to think he actually deserves to be a starting PG in the NBA while playing like D-league all star, and a backup PG who looks like a Brad Pitt in the cop car at the end of Seven.
6. A starting SF who...looked great in the World Championships, which always translates to NBA success and makes me long for the days of Turkeyglue and Belinelli.
7. Jay "I'm a nice guy, and Canadian too!" Triano
8. Bryan "I should be better than this" Colangelo

Honestly, we're like the Tea Party (movement, not so bad they're good band). We lost? Bargnani! We play terrible team D? Bargnani! We have no one who can create their own shot? Bargnani! Throw that bum out, let's elect these new bums who still report to the same chiefs, who still call all the shots and have left a situation so rotten that nothing short of bankruptcy and perhaps even a complete dissolution of power will save us!

Well said bro. Bargs is the default scapegoat for the ignorant on this board.

[Bendit]

LOL @ the hate towards Bargnani. I am fan so obviously I am labeled as biased and all, also because I'm Italian. But I think the guy gets too much shit. When he has a good game, which didn't happen often last year although he has had 3 or maybe just maybe 4 decent games this year already, people still either hate or say it was one game. When he plays badly then people hate. So unless he drops 30 and grabs 10 rebounds he will pretty much always get hate. I think it is unfair towards him, I actually don't like complaining about our players unless it's something really annoying like Bargnani's turnover last night (but he had a good game overall, c'mon) but complaining is alright. But many here go beyond complaining, people actually try and pick on every little defect, finding all the possible reasons to hate him. I don't see why Bargnani gets all this heat, yet Kleiza who has been semi-decent doesn't, and Amir who has had 2 great games this season after playing like shit for the first 10 days is considered "better" than Bargnani. If you dislike him, that's alright, but when you've put your point out there, there is no need to just keep on going on and on about what he's bad at.
I'm sorry, but it really annoys be both as a Bargnani and Raptors fan.
This forum is for discussion, which is why I joined it. It is to discuss the Raptors, about the games and how they play. Even when you talk about Bargnani, but people here when they start talking about Bargnani they just rant about him.
Oh and by people I don't mean anyone in particular and not most people on this forum, just some people who are really persistent.

As someone who has much doubt about Bargnani's defensive game and his ability to improve going forward (because of age and his niche as a big man who can shoot from the outside solidified) he really shouldnt be blamed for that last shot situation. He was not put in a good position to shoot a 3, he was being guarded by one of the clutch man defenders in the league and there is doubt whether he was not fouled on the steal. And no, the record is not because of Bargnani's play entirely but the team...plenty of holes and "blame" in quite a few places. The org. really has to seriously look at whether long term B is the centre on the Raps in terms of the style they want to play and the complement he affords other players around him as the starting centre. At one point in a run&gun system envisioned by BC he was probably a good choice and would still be for such a team. We are not that anymore.