View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #1941
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    ^ Can you blame him for his lacklustre defense in the middle ?
    I saw him numerous times standing still,out of position and getting bullied by Tyrus Thomas of all people...

    and im not talking 1st qtr,im talking 4th qtr mid way thru having a SF push you out the lane and lay it up is just beyond soft...
    lets not forget Tyrus on 2 occassions blowing right by him 10 feet out for uncontested yams...

    are we going to talk about it ?

  2. #1942
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    I still think the whole team is bad at defense. I don't know one player that is an all around good defensive player. Jarett/jose we know how weak their defense is but weems, demar and kleiza have also stunk. Amir and Andrea look lost as they have to help on almost every play because of the lack of periemter defense. Andrea and Amir aren't strong enough to be big time presences in the lane and Reggie is vertically challenged and sometimes to slow. TYson Chandler and Diaw would have improved this defense significantly and would be the difference in some of these close games.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    You're looking at his totals. The main difference is that Bargnani is getting more minutes, not that his rebounding is getting any better. Bargnani averaged 10 more minutes a game from his rookie season to his fourth.

    As for blocking, since it is absolutely no indication of how good a defender a player is, there's no point in looking at it (although it's not any better, either). Watching him play, I've seen really no improvement in his team defense. After four years, he still appears to have no real clue of what to do and when to do it. By the time you get to Bargnani's age, it should be instinctual, but it's not. Beyond all the hype and arguing, this should be extremely troubling to any Raptor fan. You should never, ever have to teach a 25 year old basketball player who's been playing in the NBA for four years basic team defense. It's not coaching because he's had some of the best coaching in the world the last ten years.

  3. #1943
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    Bargni is a power forward playing centre. I would love to see him paired with athletic centre to take the pressure of him.

  4. #1944
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    No, Bargnani is not sole to blame. (ie. DeMar has a lacking IQ and consistent J, Reggie can build a house with fucking missed layups, Kleiza's post game/all around offense is nowhere to be seen...etc) But he's not free from it either.

    That's why this team sucks.

  5. #1945
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    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    Bargni is a power forward playing centre. I would love to see him paired with athletic centre to take the pressure of him.
    x2

  6. #1946
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    Chris Bosh was a guy who would of really shone with a true Centre. Bargs is just a one way player. Why does anyone even defend him?? You can see it in every single game, q by q, the guy has a skill: putting the ball through the basket. THAT'S IT! He has zero game beyond that. Nothing. Blocks a few shots, has a nice defensive set a couple of times a game but that's it. The other 34 minutes he's out there killing his own team.

  7. #1947
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    I'd take LA all day, every day. He's much more of a complete player. Much tougher defensively, a much better rebounder, much higher ball IQ, and though he doesn't have the same range he's every bit as able to rack up points. THis shouldn't even be a discussion.

  8. #1948
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    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    I still think the whole team is bad at defense. I don't know one player that is an all around good defensive player. Jarett/jose we know how weak their defense is but weems, demar and kleiza have also stunk. Amir and Andrea look lost as they have to help on almost every play because of the lack of periemter defense. Andrea and Amir aren't strong enough to be big time presences in the lane and Reggie is vertically challenged and sometimes to slow. TYson Chandler and Diaw would have improved this defense significantly and would be the difference in some of these close games.
    Well, I'd definitely say Amir is a good all around defensive player. He defends his man well and is the teams best interior team defender. When he's on the floor he almost always has a positive affect defensively. The lack of defense around him certainly doesn't make him look bad.

    Wright, from what I've little I've seen, seems to be an excellent all around defender.

    Weems and DeRozan are inconsistently good. Some games they look good, other games not so much. Both players are young and inexperienced, which may be a big part of it.

    Barbosa is much better defensively than he looked in Phoenix. His big problem is that he's undersized and opposing teams can take advantage of that.

    As for Chandler and Diaw, I do think Chandler would have made a big difference defensively, but Diaw isn't a good defensive player, so I don't know why you'd say that. He was at one point, but that day is long gone (unless he loses a ton of weight). Even the commentators talked about Charlotte's need to hide him defensively.

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    Bargni is a power forward playing centre. I would love to see him paired with athletic centre to take the pressure of him.
    I talked about this in another thread, but this argument makes absolutely no sense, especially considering he HAS been basically playing PF this year, because he's been defending PFs a lot and been defended by PFs a lot. That's happened because he's been paired with Reggie, who has been defending the centers more and been defended by the centers more, who would rather stay inside than follow Bargnani outside.

    So Bargnani, for all intent and purposes, HAS been playing PF this year and it still hasn't helped.
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  9. #1949
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    with the way Rondo's been ballin id taked him over all of them...

  10. #1950
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    Default Raptors could've done worse than Bargnani

    PORTLAND ó Whether itís at the ACC or here at the Rose Garden, any meeting between the Raptors and Trail Blazers evokes memories of draft night back in 2006.

    As much as fans in Toronto want to lament the selection of Andrea Bargnani over Brandon Roy, imagine the angst in Portland, where the hometown hoops team could have had Kevin Durant a year later.

    Up until Fridayís loss in Los Angeles to the Lakers, Bargnani led the Raptors in scoring in each of the previous tips, doing most of his damage on the perimeter when many would like to see him become more of a presence in the post.

    Maybe Bargnani is forever destined to be an outside threat, a guy who will go virtually invisible on the glass, but heís finally got a chance to expand his game and only in time can Bargnani be properly judged.

    At no point in his career will Bargnani be able to justify the Raptorsí trust when they made him the first overall pick, believing that a seven-footer with athleticism and an ability to put the ball on the floor was worth the risk and, as the intervening years have proven, the ridicule.

    Five games into the season and Bargnani has yet to be that consistent player at either ends of the floor, but there have been moments and those stretches of taking over games with his offence and being able to rebound the ball should be viewed as encouraging.

    You see the inroads made and the potential, but for Bargnani itís all about consistency.

    And letís face it: Heíll never be as good as Roy, but the two are different players given Roy can handle the ball at either position in the backcourt and is better off the dribble.

    With so much room to grow, you can see why the Raptors coveted Bargnani.

    The Greg Oden story is much murkier.

    Remember, Oden could have been available in 2006 had the NBA not changed its age eligibility for incoming players.

    And just imagine had the Raptors taken Oden, who may go down as the greatest bust among any first overall picks.

    Earlier in the week, when the deadline to extend players taken from the 2007 draft class expired, no extension was offered to Oden, who officially joins a list of infamy that features Kwame Brown as the poster child, a fellow first overall pick who was not extended.

    Injuries have plagued Oden almost from the beginning of his career, a pick that will now haunt the Blazers, who way back when took Sam Bowie, another fragile big, over Michael Jordan.

    No date on Odenís possible return has been set.

    Oden and Ohio State teammate Mike Conley Jr. were both lottery picks, but in an interesting twist only the point guard has had his deal extended in Memphis, where Rudy Gay, a member of Bargnaniís draft class, was given a lucrative deal this off-season.

    What is left in Portland is plenty of what ifs had Durant, an MVP in waiting, had been picked to play alongside Roy, a wing tandem that would rival any in basketball, even the LeBron James and Dwyane Wade combo.

    The Raptors knew Bargnani had to get stronger, both mentally and physically, be more assertive and more willing to go into the post.

    The hope is that Bargnani will be that dominant go-to guy, but at least heís been injury-free, unlike Oden.

    Defensively, Bargnani has to be more of a weak-side presence, be more aware of where the ball is located and his man.

    Oden had all the makings of the NBAís next great big man, a shot blocker, defender of the paint and a rebounder whose offence was limited and raw.

    No one could have envisioned the cruel fate that has hit Oden, but at the same time no one projected Roy to have the impact he has had.

    The bottom line is that the Raptors could have done worse.

    At least with Bargnani, thereís hope, which canít be said for Oden.
    http://www.torontosun.com/sports/bas.../16009331.html

    Great article.

  11. #1951
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    Oden has no hope? Pardon my French but that's a load of bullshit

  12. #1952
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    I think Oden is actually a better player. But his injuries have been really unfortunate. He is a good low post scorer, can attack defenders, is a great defender, great shot blocker, great rebounder or both ends. He is also extremely efficient, but his injuries have plagued him....

  13. #1953
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    When healthy, Oden is the better of the two. He makes more of an impact. Too bad he's made of porcelain. He's like Glass Joe's twin brother.

  14. #1954
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    Depending on the results of thorough medical exams of Oden by worldwide specialists I would swap Bargnani for Oden without even blinking an eyelash, especially if Portland threw in a 1st round draft pick.

    Their salaries about equal.
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  15. #1955
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Depending on the results of thorough medical exams of Oden by worldwide specialists I would swap Bargnani for Oden without even blinking an eyelash, especially if Portland threw in a 1st round draft pick.

    Their salaries about equal.
    I'd go even further to say that I'd swap Oden for Bargs right NOW and take a gamble that Oden gets healthy. Maybe try to squeeze a pick. Bargs just has way too many flaws in his game, making him difficult (read: impossible) to build around. He's a high end bench player on a great team - a taller Robert Horry, if you will.

    There's always a market even for oft-injured (Chandler) or bust (Darko) 7-footers. And if Oden doesn't come back this year, then it guarantees us a top 3 pick, but even better, we don't have to talk about Andrea anymore.

  16. #1956
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    I'd go even further to say that I'd swap Oden for Bargs right NOW and take a gamble that Oden gets healthy. Maybe try to squeeze a pick. Bargs just has way too many flaws in his game, making him difficult (read: impossible) to build around. He's a high end bench player on a great team - a taller Robert Horry, if you will.

    There's always a market even for oft-injured (Chandler) or bust (Darko) 7-footers. And if Oden doesn't come back this year, then it guarantees us a top 3 pick, but even better, we don't have to talk about Andrea anymore.
    Good points

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  17. #1957
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    Yeah they could have done worse. But they could have done a lot better too

  18. #1958
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    I e-mailed the guys at Portland Roundball Society to get a Portland fans opinion of a Bargs-Oden trade. Here is his exact response:

    "No way. I'd rather have the Bounty Soft dryer sheets Bear then Bargnani."

    I think we often talk ourselves into a trade thinking that the other teams might just be desperate enough to give us the top talent in the deal. And yes, sometimes a team might be...and yes, this is a blogger and not the GM of the Blazers...but Portland would not even make this trade without the draft picks coming our way in my opinion.

  19. #1959
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    You guys are insane to think about trading a guy like Bargs for a guy who can't even stay on the floor for a whole season.

  20. #1960
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    You guys are insane to think about trading a guy like Bargs for a guy who can't even stay on the floor for a whole season.
    Correction...he has stayed on the floor a whole season...just conveniently spread out over 3 seasons.

    But in actuality, you have a great point about Oden's durability RaptorsFan4Life. He has had some tough breaks (wordplay!) in terms on injuries. So my question for you is, if the rules were not changed about draft elegibility and Oden was available in 2006, would you have selected him over Bargs?

    I personally think I would. It goes down to a style thing. I think Oden, when healthy, can have a significantly larger impact on the game then Bargnani.

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