View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #6781
    Raptors Republic Starter AJ360's Avatar
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    I was one that definitely did not think he could be part of a winning culture... And he hasn't proved me wrong just yet... But I won't be disappointed if he does.

  2. #6782
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote e2thed wrote: View Post
    haha thats hilarious. If that was really a book i'd buy it

  3. #6783
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't really call it flip flopping. I'm mean whether he should stay isn't an unchanging moral issue like abortion.

    For the people in the middle I think it's more that it comes down to an ever changing theory of whether or not he can be the player we want him to be based on our own values of what a good player is and/or whether he fits what in with was we define a good team. Things change and so opinions can change. For some it's game to game, for others it season to season for others its when significant changes take place(or don't take place).
    And then there is the love, hate types of issues which Bargnani definitely has been.

    When it comes to the people in the middle on Bargnani, I think they are definitely the overwhelming minority.

  4. #6784
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Maybe but it's hard to say. I mean this place is a good representation of hardcore fans but not so much the casual fans.

  5. #6785
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Amazing what a few games can change in the outlook of fans. Happy for the guy to get some positive press and to be getting some recognition. But in all fairness no one questioned his talents rather is effort and focus so maybe the press is coming in at the proper time. If he maintains this he could be flirting with a coaches pick for the all star game depending on the teams record. Two questions for everyone.
    1) Can Dre maintain his 50+ FG% for the season?
    2) If you had to put a % on him making the all-star game what would it be?

  6. #6786
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    1) Can Dre maintain his 50+ FG% for the season?
    2) If you had to put a % on him making the all-star game what would it be?
    1) not likely, though it should be close...i'm more interested in his TS% staying high
    2) 20%? gonna be tough, it'll likely depend on the team's record; if they're under .500, the coaches will likely reward a lesser player on a better team. he's got a bit of an advantage cause he can be slotted in as a C or a PF, and there's a dearth of both in the East (after howard)...but he'd still be battling the likes of horford, hibbert, maybe chandler (undeserving, but it's the knicks, so...), guys on teams that *should* have better records than the raps at the break, at the 5, and guys with inferior stats but on better teams,or guys with a 'better' rep - KG, bosh, anderson (ORL), west - could sneak in ahead of him.

    the biggest obstacle for bargs is overcoming his own bad rep as a soft, no-D, no-rebound jump-shooting big on a bad team. the easiest argument is that he's just an avg guy putting up big numbers on a bad team. the same thing most mouth-breathers (shaq, cwebb) use when denigrating bosh as 'definitely not part of the big 3.'
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  7. #6787
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Further to this, it was never really about Bargnani's rebounding totals, but more about his effort. He's clearly putting in more effort this year (so far), and is doing a better job of keeping his man off the glass. I wouldn't care if he only averaged 3 boards, as long as his man isn't burning him for offensive rebounds.
    +1. But unfortunately, when you look back at this season, you wont remember how Bargnani boxed out or kept his man off the glass. Once you look at the stats, youll always go back to the conclusion that he was a below average rebounder regardless of effort.

    I think you have to watch the games live in order to see what really goes on. Ive seen numerous games at the ACC but the last game with the Cavs was the first time i really paid attention to Bargnani's game. Im not sure who said it, i think it was GarbageTime, but he is correct, Bargnani is usually flat-footed when it comes to rebounding. I think the difference now is he exerts extra effort, its like his feet want to stay planted but his mind wants to go for the rebound. Its kinda weird if you think about it but thats how it looked live.

  8. #6788
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    http://www.nba.com/raptors/video/originals/index.html

    I've loved every single interview Bargnani's done this year.

    They asked him how he felt that people are thinking he's the man, he replied "well it's a team effort, last game I only took open shots because of the whole team executing the play".

  9. #6789
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    http://www.nba.com/raptors/video/originals/index.html

    I've loved every single interview Bargnani's done this year.

    They asked him how he felt that people are thinking he's the man, he replied "well it's a team effort, last game I only took open shots because of the whole team executing the play".
    Yup.

    I made a similar remark in the NJ game thread with the post game interview.

    Something seems to have happened in the off season. I was noticing a difference in him just from interviews before any games were played.

  10. #6790
    Raptors Republic All-Star e2thed's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Something seems to have happened in the off season. I was noticing a difference in him just from interviews before any games were played.
    It's 'cause he got in trouble with BC, because last years season ending interviews, he said he does things more complicated than rebounding.

  11. #6791
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote e2thed wrote: View Post
    It's 'cause he got in trouble with BC, because last years season ending interviews, he said he does things more complicated than rebounding.
    I am not sure all the blame can be placed on Bargnani - but certainly a good portion!

    BC and Gherindini coddled him while you had JT talking about 'roles'. Does anyone remember interviews with players where they talked about their role or another person's role. Clearly players focusing on 1 or 2 aspects of the game does not equate success at the NBA level.

    Those comments from Bargnani were, well stupid, but the idea placed in his ideas by his coaches and/or management was even stupider.

  12. #6792
    Raptors Republic Rookie Vincent's Avatar
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    Bargnani has had a lot of respect in the past from coaches and other players for his offensive talents. However his defence, and overall focus has always been at a different much lower level. As we all know he has shown flashes of being a more complete player, and it's this wasted potential that always frustrated me. We have experinced a player in the past (who cannot be named but his initials are VC) who had so much potential, so much talent but his mental toughness was non existant.

    Now this year Bargnani has shown some fire and has had some real success. If this continues, it will open up the floor for the other players as his skillset and size make it very hard if not impossible to guard him. He also seems to be a little lighter which has improved his quickness. He creates so many match up problems for other teams, and given his level of play this season there is not a team who would not want him.

    I hope he continues to play hard and do his best. He will have some bad games as everyone does especially given the crazy schedule coming up, but as long as he brings the effort I will be satisfied. He has the chance to totally change how he is perceived and the more respect he gets around the league the more respect the Raptors will get. Other players will want to play with him if he continues his high level of play, and he could help entice a key free agent to the team. We may be closer than we think to having a real competitive team, all we can do is cross our fingers, and hope that the chemistry between Bargnani and Casey continues.

  13. #6793
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Bargnani grabbed 11 rebounds versus the 76ers.

    I just felt the need to type that because it might be a long time before I can do it again.

  14. #6794
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Those comments from Bargnani were, well stupid, but the idea placed in his ideas by his coaches and/or management was even stupider.
    if i remember correctly, the brew-ha-ha over his comment was, more than anything, misconstrued, and blown up into something that he hadn't intended (though he speaks fine english, some things - such as intent/inuendo - do get lost in translation). i'm pretty sure he wasn't saying that he does the 'complicated' things (i.e. scoring), and so it was up to his unskilled teammates to pick up the slack for D/rebounding; rather, he was implying that he does these 'complicated' things (scoring), so there's no reason why can't also defend/rebound much better, since both are about effort moreso than skill (though i' - and many others - always argued that effort IS a skill, and his comments revealed his philosophy about effort, and further that his belief that D/rebounding are not 'complicated.').
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  15. #6795
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Default Amnesty Clause Scared Bargs straight

    Dont attribute Bargs sudden improvement of play to him being moved over to PF.

    ... and yes it is so much better than before. The guy actually cares and hustles out there something we all knew he could do, but would not.

    Thank the Amnest clause - I know people dont believe it but Bargs was on a short list of players in Toronto to be dumped, in a different year and a different phase of rebuilding he may have been.
    Andrea Bargnani (42 mill over 4 years)
    11-12 $9,000,000
    12-13 $10,000,000
    13-14 $11,000,000
    14-15 $12,000,000

    Bargs must have read the numerous articles over the summer which ripped him and the ROI of his salary.

    http://blogs.thescore.com/raptorblog...overpaid-list/

    You may recall a post from a few months ago where Kevin Pelton had written that the Raptors were last in the league in payroll efficiency. Basically, they didnít have very many wins in comparison to the total number of dollars on their payroll. Today, we have a post from Arturo Galletti over at Wages of Wins, that shall infuriate you a little more.

    According to Galletti, Andrea Bargnani is the second most overpaid player in the league. Nestled between Michael Redd and Yao Ming, Bargnaniís wins produced value is -6 according to the study, worst in the NBA. The next worse wins produced value is Darko Milicicís at -2.8. Whatís more? Each of the top seven players on the overpaid list outside of Bargnani were seriously injured or traded during the season.

    Think about that: Redd played 134 minutes this season while Yao logged 91 minutes. Bargnani? A cool 2,353 minutes. Too cool for his own good, apparently.
    If I were BC I would hang on to amnesty until next summer to keep him honest, and I would still try and move him for a true center or PG - Ed Davis is a true PF and will flourish if given minutes with 1/8th the salary... I like Bargs play of late but I remain sceptical .... lets see how it pans out.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

  16. #6796
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    I don't think the amnesty clause had anything to do with it. Believe me, if Andrea was amnesty-ed, he not only would have received all his money from Toronto for the duration of the contract, some team out there would have given him a bigger contract than he's receiving now.

    Attribute it to proper coaching and more of an effort being put forth by Bargnani.

  17. #6797
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Gilbert Arenas and Rashard Lewis would like to say something about being overpaid.

  18. #6798
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I don't think the amnesty clause had anything to do with it. Believe me, if Andrea was amnesty-ed, he not only would have received all his money from Toronto for the duration of the contract, some team out there would have given him a bigger contract than he's receiving now.

    Attribute it to proper coaching and more of an effort being put forth by Bargnani.
    agree, but mostly about the effort part (which, i suppose, can be attributed to coaching).

    so, they're coaching up bargs...but what of the perimeter D? still reprehensible. the philosophy of packing the paint & preventing easy scores seems familar as well...
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  19. #6799
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    This can't be serious, unless it's an attempt to win dumbest post ever. In which case, it's certainly in the running. I don't have the time to tear it apart in the so many ways open to doing so. Geeez man, if you don't like the guy, you're opinion, but this is..... never mind.

  20. #6800
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I think it should be mentioned that this is charlz opinion. There are any number of factors that could be attributed to Bargnani's increased focus and effort. I'm not saying this is incorrect but we really have no way of knowing unless Bargnani confirms it or we get in his head (however if we could get in his head I am certain it would not have taken 5 years for him to appear to have figured it all out).


    As long as Bargnani keeps putting in the effort, I would never trade him unless we were getting back a legit superstar talent (and we know how often they are traded). He is not paid like an elite player. He has the salary of a third option, like Luol Deng in Chicago. If he continues to produce as he has, he is not only an all-star but a very reasonably paid one too.

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