View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #6821
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    yeah, that may be, but i thought i read something larry coon wrote that the process remained the same with respect to who pays what for an amnestied player...that passing through the auction process unclaimed didn't change the fact that the team amnestying the player does get some degree of financial relief. the only difference, as far as i know, is that once an amnestied player passes through the auction unclaimed, he becomes a 'true' FA & can choose who he signs with. if the length of the deal differs from the contract in which he was amnestied from, i believe the portion that the amnestying team is responsible for is pro-rated.

    holy shit.
    There is no financial relief in terms of what the team owes the player, i.e. the players gets paid every dime he is owed.

    The financial relief comes from the salary cap, i.e. the salary is removed from the salary cap and could possibly reduce any amount of luxury tax a team might owe or reduce the luxury tax completely.

  2. #6822
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is a fair statement in past seasons. This year, however, he is a top 20 (maybe a little higher) player in the league.
    hoo...i don't see it. sorry. much improved? absolutely! better defender? getting there! better offensively? you bet! still a shitty rebounder? of course! top-20? not quite.

    but it's not like he's all that far from there; i simply have a hard time evaluating players on, let's be frank, shit teams, especially when comparing them to other players who may not be putting up numbers, but who contribute more to their team's actual success. he's the primo offensive option on a team lacking significant offensive production from anywhere else...until the raps improve, it's going to be difficult to assess him properly. put it this way...of the top 15 teams in the league, on how many would he be the #1 option on offense? #2? #3? a starter?
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  3. #6823
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    [QUOTE=charlz;108552]Dont attribute Bargs sudden improvement of play to him being moved over to PF.

    ... and yes it is so much better than before. The guy actually cares and hustles out there something we all knew he could do, but would not.

    Thank the Amnest clause - I know people dont believe it but Bargs was on a short list of players in Toronto to be dumped, in a different year and a different phase of rebuilding he may have been.
    Andrea Bargnani (42 mill over 4 years)
    11-12 $9,000,000
    12-13 $10,000,000
    13-14 $11,000,000
    14-15 $12,000,000

    Bargs must have read the numerous articles over the summer which ripped him and the ROI of his salary.

    Are you serious? Did you really just make this kind of assumption without any facts to back it up? Ya, he MUST have read that he was going to be amnestied and decided to improve because of it. Come on.

  4. #6824
    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    there's no way that he is scared of the amnesty. it would mean getting paid that full salary as well as being able to sign with another team. it's not affecting his performance

  5. #6825
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    There is no financial relief in terms of what the team owes the player, i.e. the players gets paid every dime he is owed.

    The financial relief comes from the salary cap, i.e. the salary is removed from the salary cap and could possibly reduce any amount of luxury tax a team might owe or reduce the luxury tax completely.
    by 'financial relief,' i simply meant that the amnestying team isn't on the hook for ALL of the $$, as in, the knicks get some measure of 'relief' from the clips - they're paying billups ~$2M less than they would have if he'd not signed/been signed by another team. in contrast, unless/until arenas signs with another team, orlando is on the hook for all of his salary.
    Last edited by yertu damkule; Mon Jan 9th, 2012 at 10:32 PM.
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  6. #6826
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    If you say you have a hard time evaluating players on shit teams but then how can you evaluate Bargnani's past performance at all? The Raps have been a pretty shitty team for the past 4 years in case you haven't been paying attention. Or maybe its just you give no credit to players on shitty teams lol Just watched Bargnani go for 31pts 9rebs tonight btw. Its laughable that the Rap's would amnesty a guy that has this much trade value.

    A better question is whether or not to trade Bargs while his value is high. I personally feel it would be a mistake to trade a guy that obviously loves to be here. Oh ya and scored 30+ 3 times in 9 games. Stop drinking the hateraid

  7. #6827
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote st1r guy wrote: View Post
    If you say you have a hard time evaluating players on shit teams but then how can you evaluate Bargnani's past performance at all? The Raps have been a pretty shitty team for the past 4 years in case you haven't been paying attention. Or maybe its just you give no credit to players on shitty teams lol Just watched Bargnani go for 31pts 9rebs tonight btw. Its laughable that the Rap's would amnesty a guy that has this much trade value.

    A better question is whether or not to trade Bargs while his value is high. I personally feel it would be a mistake to trade a guy that obviously loves to be here. Oh ya and scored 30+ 3 times in 9 games. Stop drinking the hateraid
    huh? not sure what you're getting at. all i said that it's hard to put a 'value' (per se) on the numbers produced by a guy on a team that doesn't really have many other offensive options, and as such, i questioned Matt's assertion that bargs is a top-20 player in this league. i mean, everyone kinda/sorta realizes what kind of player bosh was/is, right? a complementary player, good 2nd or 3rd fiddle...but also a guy who put up big numbers on a bad team. is he a top-20 player now? was he then? i mean, some people thought so (he was 2nd team all-NBA in '06/'07). guys who put up numbers on bad teams aren't hard to find...and i don't really know what to make of andrea...other than i don't think he's (near) a top-20 player. i guess that constitutes hating. your originality is refreshing...but not as refreshing as this 'hateraid.' mmm, tasty!
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  8. #6828
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    there's no way that he is scared of the amnesty. it would mean getting paid that full salary as well as being able to sign with another team. it's not affecting his performance
    agree, it's a fairly ridiculous notion...but maybe the possibility (however faint) of being amnestied, mixed with the lockout, mixed with a new coach & fan rumblings, lit a fire under his ass.

    oh, and in andrea's case, it's unlikely that he'd get to choose what team he'd sign with, as he'd likely be snatched up in the auction process...so he'd have no control over where he went (if he wanted to play). from all reports, he's very comfy in TO, so perhaps the combination of the embarrassment of being amnestied with the added displeasure of moving to another team (and given how the process works, it likely would not have been a good team) did provide some measure of motivation? again, i agree that the notion is silly, but it's not so silly to dismiss it out of hand.
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  9. #6829
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    Fair enough, maybe I was reading a little too much into your post. But whats not to like about a guy averaging 23.6 points per game and 6.8 rebounds? Hes top 10 in scoring through 9 games (admittedly its a small sample size) Ive watched every game this year and I dont think they win any games thus far without him in the lineup. Its always said that Bigs take longer to develop their games. Maybe Bargnani was hurt by having a coach like Triano guide his development. Put down the hateraid and have a big bowl of primo pasta!

  10. #6830
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    I know I can't go back and re-vote on the poll, but make a mental note that I'm moving my C to a B.. Make it a B+ if he continues to play this way all season and an A if he's able to play when the Raptors finally put a franchise player beside him.

  11. #6831
    Raptors Republic Starter WhatWhat's Avatar
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    More games like this. Good all-around game against the Wolves. He... he actually altered a shot with help defense.

  12. #6832
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorFan (proud?..) wrote: View Post
    I know I can't go back and re-vote on the poll, but make a mental note that I'm moving my C to a B.. Make it a B+ if he continues to play this way all season and an A if he's able to play when the Raptors finally put a franchise player beside him.
    If he keeps playing like this all season, forget putting a franchise player behind him, put one beside him. Bargnani is playing like a franchise player right now, in my opinion.

  13. #6833
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Man, if the Raptors could have had Bargs, Jose and Amir as pieces a few years ago...wait. They did. Amazingf what Casey has done. And I realize having a healthy Jose is huge.

  14. #6834
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I don't think you can give Casey all the credit for Bargnani's steps forward. Casey has only had a month with the guy, roughly a half month prior to the season starting. Bargnani must have been working hard in the off-season, he showed up in the gym before anyone else and as Casey has mentioned Andrea has been working hard in the gym and pushing himself. I like Casey, I feel he is having a positive impact already but I also feel at this point most of Bargnani's success this season can be attributed to his own hard work.

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If he keeps playing like this all season, forget putting a franchise player behind him, put one beside him. Bargnani is playing like a franchise player right now, in my opinion.
    No doubt. Now the key is that he stays motivated. This is the real test for Bargnani and Casey.

    Some key stats on offense that are pretty impressive for a player of his style and when considering how he did in years prior:
    • 51% from the field
    • 6.3 trips to the line per game
    • 2 assists per game
    • 23.5% PER, 13th in player efficiency
    • .184 WS/48 (league average is .1), 18th in win shares

  15. #6835
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I don't think you can give Casey all the credit for Bargnani's steps forward. Casey has only had a month with the guy, roughly a half month prior to the season starting. Bargnani must have been working hard in the off-season, he showed up in the gym before anyone else and as Casey has mentioned Andrea has been working hard in the gym and pushing himself. I like Casey, I feel he is having a positive impact already but I also feel at this point most of Bargnani's success this season can be attributed to his own hard work.



    No doubt. Now the key is that he stays motivated. This is the real test for Bargnani and Casey.

    Some key stats on offense that are pretty impressive for a player of his style and when considering how he did in years prior:
    • 51% from the field
    • 6.3 trips to the line per game
    • 2 assists per game
    • 23.5% PER, 13th in player efficiency
    • .184 WS/48 (league average is .1), 18th in win shares
    Ill reserve my comments for when they play a Top 5 team.

  16. #6836
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Sure. We saved you a spot.

  17. #6837
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Sure. We saved you a spot.
    hahaha thanks apollo!

    Im curious to see how he'll play against the Lakers, OKC, Boston, Chicago and ATL.

  18. #6838
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    Just wanted ask at what point do we stop saying he has a high ceiling and can someone maybe make a poll cause I dont know how ..... personally I think it's over and no one should say that anymore, I mean he's been in the league for 6 fcuking years now ! I think we can't say that anymore.

  19. #6839
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Actually most players don't reach their peak until 28 or 29. Am I right? He still has time to grow. His game is better this year than last year.

    Sorry, I can't add another poll.

  20. #6840
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Default Bargnani: "We are too mentally soft."

    Amen brutha!!!

    This is exactly what I was referring to in the case of DeMar. Some of these guys might be over-analyzing things which will eventually affect your mental game. These guys gotta load up with some ginseng or something before game time.

    http://www.nba.com/raptors/video/201...NIPOST-1961690

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