View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #9221
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I like your post - good points.

    The bold is one area I would question. Danny Ferry's first move in Atlanta was sending out the best player for pennies on the dollar - an older and more expensive player at that.

    However, I think we can safely say Colangelo's LAST move will not be sending out Gay for pennies on the dollar.
    Gay for Gasol.

    Toronto gets an expiring contract and a great locker room presence/mentor for Valanciunas; LA gets a younger, talented wing player who still has some merit on a team that already has its two alpha dogs in Howard and Kobe and is looking to win a championship ASAP. You can still do whatever you want with Bargnani - trade for picks, amnesty, whatever you like. You can even trade him for Boozer if you want, though I wouldn't.
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  2. #9222
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't see an extra year as being a long term investment but whatever.

    Any trade with LA is going to need a third team unless LA is not making a trade looking for salary relief purposes.

    I put up a trade with Minnesota being a third team with Lakers & Raptors. Also Bargnani for Boozer is straightforward. Whatever deal Toronto can get a first round pick from is what I would pursue. I think sending DeRozan out in ANY deal needs a first round draft pick coming back.

    Lots of negativity around this draft but solid players come from every draft.
    That part wasn't really directed at you. Just that someone had suggested that getting Boozer was better for flexibility because of the 2015 capspace. I'm arguing that it makes no real difference. Getting Gasol does not sacrifice the chance to add a 2015 free agent if that is the route the team decides to take.

    On the second bold, it'd be nice to get the draft pick out of Chicago. I mean, I still doubt a Gasol deal happening, because I just don't see how the Raptors send filler that they can part with in such a deal. That said, I'm all for adding young pieces to a team that needs a chance to not just get talent, but stockpile assets a bit, so it'd be great if more than just Boozer is on the table.

  3. #9223
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Good chance to checkout 2 potential raptors tonight. Boozer against the hot Knicks. Carl Landry vs OKC later.

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  5. #9224
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Kryptonate just scored 35 points on the Knicks.

  6. #9225
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Boozer did not look good. He's a pretty terrible finisher around the basket. I was thinking about this Gasol - Boozer situation & I realized what I like about Gasol that Boozer does not provide.

    Gasol is a much better post presence than Boozer & although "soft", he's a better finisher inside than Boozer. He's a very skilled big man who can rebound AND pass the ball. I remember watching the Lakers with Gasol and Bynum during the championship runs & I would love for the Raptors to have two 7 footers crashing the boards in Gasol & Valanciunas -- both are good finishers around the basket.

    Again, with regards to passing. This is the main advantage & my primary motivation in wanting Gasol. Imagine -- Lowry high screen and roll with Valanciunas. JV runs down the middle, Gasol flashes high. Gasol has the ability to make high - low passes in traffic. JV has his arms way high, receives the pass from Gasol & finish. I'm remembering the Laker days when they ran the big to big high low -- sort of like a grounded alley oop, which they have shied away from recently partly because Dwight is not that long that when he puts his arms up, he's basically dunking. Bynum had the length & he kept his hands up, got the ball and finished.

    I can see a lot of that happening with the Raptors should they pursue Gasol. It will benefit Jonas a lot having a 7 footer who is also a facilitator on offense. Add in the fact that Gasol has enough size to man the 5 spot & we rid ourselves of the Aaron Gray epidemic.

    With Quincy Acy's development, I feel that we would need another big who is more suited at the 5 spot yet can be plugged into the 4 spot along with Jonas. Acy and Amir are good defenders for the 4 spot because they are mobile enough to hedge, help and recover. I can't even undermine Acy's development -- because of Quincy Acy, we have gone away from the small ball that caused us many ball games. In Acy, we have a serviceable big off the bench who has endless motor, jump shot & lateral quickness to react to pick and roll situations.

    I feel that Boozer - at 6'9" and not so mobile, will make our front court rather small. So if I had to choose between the 2, I'd take Gasol because he has enough size for the 5 but also gives you a twin tower option along with Valanciunas.
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  8. #9226
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I like your post - good points.

    The bold is one area I would question. Danny Ferry's first move in Atlanta was sending out the best player for pennies on the dollar - an older and more expensive player at that.

    However, I think we can safely say Colangelo's LAST move will not be sending out Gay for pennies on the dollar.
    I'm familiar with the Joe Johnson situation, but it's quite a bit different than the Rudy Gay situation.

    Joe Johnson has the worst contract in the NBA, he's going to be making $25M in 2015-16. Most Hawks fans were amazed and happy Danny Ferry was able to deal Joe Johnson without taking back a shit sandwich in return. Joe Johnson is old, declining, and had worn out his welcome in Atlanta. The only similarities to Gay are that they are/were the highest paid player on the team, and some people think they're the best on the team (Atlanta also had Josh Smith and Al Horford so it was arguable Johnson was even their best player, and ridding Johnson was to the benefit of those two players).

    Also, Danny Ferry was clearing space to make a run at Dwight Howard or Chris Paul, which are somewhat realistic for Atlanta (Howard the only one I think still has a chance).

    If a new GM dealt Gay for pennies on the dollar it would be looked at as a Babcock esque move, whereas Danny Ferry is being heralded as a great GM. Atlanta is my next favorite team as I used to live there and had season tickets, so I know personally that I was ecstatic when Ferry took over and made those trades. Ferry's real test will be this coming off season and what he's able to accomplish with all their cap space. I've got my fingers crossed LA misses the playoffs and Dwight feels like leaving.

  9. #9227
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Another consideration why the Bulls might trade Boozer for Bargnani (and maybe even throw in a pick!):

    Chicago Bulls fans eager for Nikola Mirotic to join the team that drafted him with the 24th pick in 2011 will likely have to wait until the summer of 2014, general manager Gar Forman explained.

    “You’re slotted in the first round, and I think the slot for No. 24 is $1.3 or $1.4 million,” Forman said Thursday on “The Waddle & Silvy Show” on ESPN 1000. “Well, he makes a lot more money than that right now over at Real Madrid. So the way the CBA is written is after three years then you’re no longer slotted. Then you can use whether it’s exception room or cap room in order to pay a guy.

    “So there’s no possibility this summer because next year will be his third year. But after next year, the summer of 2014, then we’ll be able to start some negotiations as far as a buyout possibly with Real Madrid or negotiate with him to come over here.”

    Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nikola-mir...-bulls-in-2014
    I think we are all in agreement it is not a basketball decision on the Bulls part. Boozer>>>Bargnani - debate? *crickets* Good.

    The Bulls currently have $58.992 on the books for 2014-2015. Assuming the cap goes up around $5M, that leaves them, right now, with maybe around $5M in cap space - again assumption made here. Dropping Boozer for Bargnani gives them another $4.8M so now they are up to maybe around $9.8M in cap space. If they keep their first round draft pick this season the numbers drop to about $3.5M assuming cap goes up and $8.3M with trade.

    So maybe they have their eyes on 2014 for Mirotic and then Bargnani coming off the books in 2015-16 might leave them with another $10+M in cap space.

    Who knows. I'm just shooting poop.
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  10. #9228
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Gay for Gasol.

    Toronto gets an expiring contract and a great locker room presence/mentor for Valanciunas; LA gets a younger, talented wing player who still has some merit on a team that already has its two alpha dogs in Howard and Kobe and is looking to win a championship ASAP. You can still do whatever you want with Bargnani - trade for picks, amnesty, whatever you like. You can even trade him for Boozer if you want, though I wouldn't.
    At least give the guy one full season to prove himself worthy of the trade. The Raps gave two of their best assets, the least they can do is see what Gay can do for them given a full season.

    Besides, i dont think Gay would fit in LA. They need a spot up shooter to open up the defense so Kobe can penetrate and Howard can work inside. I can see them wanting Ross or maybe even AA.

  11. #9229
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    At least give the guy one full season to prove himself worthy of the trade. The Raps gave two of their best assets, the least they can do is see what Gay can do for them given a full season.

    Besides, i dont think Gay would fit in LA. They need a spot up shooter to open up the defense so Kobe can penetrate and Howard can work inside. I can see them wanting Ross or maybe even AA.
    Oh, I fully believe Gay will be in TO all of next year; it's more likely he's traded on his last contract year. I'm just skeptical of whether we'll see anything different from what we've seen his whole career. Volume shooting leading to decent numbers but not impacting team success.

    In Memphis, it worked to a degree because the system revolved around 2 other guys who were both very efficient on offense and pretty good defenders when Rudy let his guy by him. It won't work in Toronto when he's supposed to be the alpha.
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  12. #9230
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Gay for Gasol.
    as childish as it is.... this made me laugh out loud

  13. #9231
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Gasol not because I think he is any better for the team...but because he would be a 19 million dollar expiring contract THIS year

  14. #9232
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Another consideration why the Bulls might trade Boozer for Bargnani (and maybe even throw in a pick!):



    I think we are all in agreement it is not a basketball decision on the Bulls part. Boozer>>>Bargnani - debate? *crickets* Good.

    The Bulls currently have $58.992 on the books for 2014-2015. Assuming the cap goes up around $5M, that leaves them, right now, with maybe around $5M in cap space - again assumption made here. Dropping Boozer for Bargnani gives them another $4.8M so now they are up to maybe around $9.8M in cap space. If they keep their first round draft pick this season the numbers drop to about $3.5M assuming cap goes up and $8.3M with trade.

    So maybe they have their eyes on 2014 for Mirotic and then Bargnani coming off the books in 2015-16 might leave them with another $10+M in cap space.

    Who knows. I'm just shooting poop.
    Interesting assumption.

    I still would take the Boozer deal today, because he adds elements of toughness, leadership, and consistency. Boozer does have health problems, but with Gasol and a wiped season, adding in aging, I'm not taking that risk on him. I personally feel that Boozer would be a better fit here anyways. Aaron Gray actually is a solid back-up centre with all fun intended aside, and because of small ball, I feel Boozer would be a better C than Gasol in that lineup.

    I personally think you run with a Robinson/Boozer deal. Although, Robinson and Boozer are making money arguably over their worth.

    Lowry/Robinson/Telfair (assuming he re-signs cheap)
    Derozan/Ross
    Gay/Fields
    Boozer/Johnson
    Valanciunas/Gray

    Add in your shooters/defenders/bigs etc.

  15. #9233
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Interesting assumption.

    I still would take the Boozer deal today, because he adds elements of toughness, leadership, and consistency. Boozer does have health problems, but with Gasol and a wiped season, adding in aging, I'm not taking that risk on him. I personally feel that Boozer would be a better fit here anyways. Aaron Gray actually is a solid back-up centre with all fun intended aside, and because of small ball, I feel Boozer would be a better C than Gasol in that lineup.

    I personally think you run with a Robinson/Boozer deal. Although, Robinson and Boozer are making money arguably over their worth.

    Lowry/Robinson/Telfair (assuming he re-signs cheap)
    Derozan/Ross
    Gay/Fields
    Boozer/Johnson
    Valanciunas/Gray

    Add in your shooters/defenders/bigs etc.
    Robinson is actually on a minimum contract this year! LOL Why can't BC pick up minimum vets like that!

    He is also a free agent so he is not able to be traded for.

    What I like about Amir is the ability to play both PF and C. I would only use Boozer at PF. With him I'd pair Amir or JV at C. That is just me though.
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  16. #9234
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Robinson is actually on a minimum contract this year! LOL Why can't BC pick up minimum vets like that!

    He is also a free agent so he is not able to be traded for.

    What I like about Amir is the ability to play both PF and C. I would only use Boozer at PF. With him I'd pair Amir or JV at C. That is just me though.
    I think Robinson had even some trouble getting a contract this year (or maybe he didn't want to sign with any club). There is some bias against small players even when they can play (Isaiah Thomas would never have gone 60th in the draft if he was a bit taller even though he defends better than quite a few taller nba guards). He's not an answer to anything but you can do much worse in the microwave section.

  17. #9235
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Bulls have 3 good PGs under their belt BC has to look to them Its obvious 1 is out with the #Return happening next season. Nate Robinson and Teague are the likely toss aways.

  18. #9236
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    In the new CBA, cap space should be much more beneficial in trades. Big reason why DeRozan's extension pissed me off so much.
    I'm still holding my opinion on Demar's extention until we are 100% sure he's not worth it! I can recall that we ALL complained when Amir got his extension (5 year, $34 million contract) on the first day of free agency. Now I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that Johnson is a bargain right now with the way he plays and his productivity. Not saying Demar's contract is a bargain, but I'll wait until I'll make a definitive opinion on his contract.

  19. #9237
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    I'm still holding my opinion on Demar's extention until we are 100% sure he's not worth it! I can recall that we ALL complained when Amir got his extension (5 year, $34 million contract) on the first day of free agency. Now I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that Johnson is a bargain right now with the way he plays and his productivity. Not saying Demar's contract is a bargain, but I'll wait until I'll make a definitive opinion on his contract.
    I don't recall being opposed to Amir's contract.

    What I didn't like was BC bidding against himself and listening to Amir say he was looking for around $20M.

    Also, Amir's contract was originally reported as $34 but it is actually $30M and $28M guaranteed.

    As for DeRozan's contract - worth is not the issue. His cap hold was about $3-4M less than the contract. That $3-4M could have been used in a trade, DeRozan without the extension was a better trade chip, and once again BC bid against himself.
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  21. #9238
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Robinson is actually on a minimum contract this year! LOL Why can't BC pick up minimum vets like that!

    He is also a free agent so he is not able to be traded for.

    What I like about Amir is the ability to play both PF and C. I would only use Boozer at PF. With him I'd pair Amir or JV at C. That is just me though.
    Oops! My bad sir, looking at a non-updated website.

  22. #9239
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Tom Thib was really upset with Nate Robinson down the stretch he was doing "too" much but honestly Nate is a competitor I think its ok for him to just be Nate off the bench.

    Next season I think Acy really needs a serious look at cracking the rotation..

  23. #9240
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Boozer always performs against the Raps. He had it going today, 12-14 points in the 1st Q before eventually cooling down and fouling out. His offensive game is inconsistent, but when his jumper is falling he's a lethal weapon.
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