View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #9241
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Boozer always performs against the Raps. He had it going today, 12-14 points in the 1st Q before eventually cooling down and fouling out. His offensive game is inconsistent, but when his jumper is falling he's a lethal weapon.
    He's a bruiser, really hard to push away from the basket, and like someone has mentioned in the past, has trouble finishing around the rim, and unless the jump-shot is falling, you don't know how much you'll get out of him. He is consistent in getting touches and looks in the post though.

  2. #9242
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    He's a bruiser, really hard to push away from the basket, and like someone has mentioned in the past, has trouble finishing around the rim, and unless the jump-shot is falling, you don't know how much you'll get out of him. He is consistent in getting touches and looks in the post though.
    He's very average in the post though. He turns the ball over a lot and doesn't look for anything except his own shot when down there. He also has a tough time with guys that are longer than him.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

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  4. #9243
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Tom Thib was really upset with Nate Robinson down the stretch he was doing "too" much but honestly Nate is a competitor I think its ok for him to just be Nate off the bench.

    Next season I think Acy really needs a serious look at cracking the rotation..
    Nate does that every single game. He tries to close the game himself just like JL3. Same issue. If he hits it, its amazing. If he doesn't, its the end of the world.

  5. #9244
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    He's a bruiser, really hard to push away from the basket, and like someone has mentioned in the past, has trouble finishing around the rim, and unless the jump-shot is falling, you don't know how much you'll get out of him. He is consistent in getting touches and looks in the post though.
    ... What are you talking about. Boozer consistently shoots better than league average for bigs on an above average number of attempts. It's the only place on the court where he's above average.

  6. #9245
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    ... What are you talking about. Boozer consistently shoots better than league average for bigs on an above average number of attempts. It's the only place on the court where he's above average.
    His shooting percentage and shot attempts weren't my issue.

  7. #9246
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    What else does "has trouble finishing around the rim" mean?

  8. #9247
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Thought it would be interesting to get a Bulls fan perspective. Joel Brigham is a writer for HoopsWorld.com and a huge Bulls fan.


    Matt

    Do you think the Boozer deal for Bargnani is back on this summer as was rumoured at trade deadline?

    Also, if yes, do you think Chicago is desperate enough to remove tax obligations and create cap room for Mirotic next summer to include a 2013 1st rd pick in any Boozer-Bargnani deal? The trade gives Chicago an extra $4.8M in cap space next summer to sign Mirotic (includes Bargnani’s 5% trade kciker).

    Joel Brigham

    You know how you REALLY build some cap space next summer? Keep Boozer and just amnesty him after next season. That’ll save you $16.8 million lickety splickety, and you don’t have to take on Bargnani. Granted, he’s also got an ETO that wouldn’t cost them the buy-out, but if you had to take back non-expiring pieces to make the deal work you might not be able to create as much space. I’m okay either way, but I think Chicago like Boozer from a chemistry/leadership perspective. You’ll lose a lot of that with Bargs.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-w...-brigham-41813

    I asked him a follow up question that may or may not get answered. Basically asked since Bulls are notoriously cheap, do you think they write a cheque for $16.8M to have him walk away.

    The bold is interesting considering the comments from many who post here who have said much differently.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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  9. #9248
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Thought it would be interesting to get a Bulls fan perspective. Joel Brigham is a writer for HoopsWorld.com and a huge Bulls fan.

    I asked him a follow up question that may or may not get answered. Basically asked since Bulls are notoriously cheap, do you think they write a cheque for $16.8M to have him walk away.

    The bold is interesting considering the comments from many who post here who have said much differently.

    From a cap perspective, amnestying Boozer is definitely the best solution, but quite frankly, it's a terrible idea. Boozer is still a consistent contributor, and is definitely worth assets in return, and if (not just looking at trading to Toronto) they deal him, I believe they can get both solutions to their cap issues, and receiving talent.

    Can't they trade for Bargnani, THAN amnesty Bargnani? Or would that be the same if not worse than amnestying Boozer?

  10. #9249
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    From a cap perspective, amnestying Boozer is definitely the best solution, but quite frankly, it's a terrible idea. Boozer is still a consistent contributor, and is definitely worth assets in return, and if (not just looking at trading to Toronto) they deal him, I believe they can get both solutions to their cap issues, and receiving talent.

    Can't they trade for Bargnani, THAN amnesty Bargnani? Or would that be the same if not worse than amnestying Boozer?
    You can't amnesty a player you trade for.

    Amnestying is the best route for both clubs. Addition by subtraction. Don't swap trash for trash, you'll just end up with different trash.

  11. #9250
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    From a cap perspective, amnestying Boozer is definitely the best solution, but quite frankly, it's a terrible idea. Boozer is still a consistent contributor, and is definitely worth assets in return, and if (not just looking at trading to Toronto) they deal him, I believe they can get both solutions to their cap issues, and receiving talent.

    Can't they trade for Bargnani, THAN amnesty Bargnani? Or would that be the same if not worse than amnestying Boozer?
    You can only amnesty players that were on your roster prior to the new CBA. So Chicago would not be able to amnesty Bargnani.

    I don't think they would amnesty Boozer though because they would still have to pay his salary.. Reinsdorf has always been known to be cheap, even when the Bulls were winning championships in the 90's.

  12. #9251
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    You can't amnesty a player you trade for.

    Amnestying is the best route for both clubs. Addition by subtraction. Don't swap trash for trash, you'll just end up with different trash.
    Issue with that is Boozer isn't trash...

  13. #9252
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Issue with that is Boozer isn't trash...
    I wonder if that's what some Bulls fan is saying about Bargnani right now.

  14. #9253
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I wonder if that's what some Bulls fan is saying about Bargnani right now.
    I think it is fair to call his contract trash, but Boozer is not a trash player.

    I would look at it like this:

    Assuming the Raptors amnestied Bargnani, who are the Raptors going to find for next season to replace Bargnani with Boozer's production without giving up any other assets for < $5M per season?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  15. #9254
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Here's my out there idea. Stop constantly adding pieces. We have two wing scorers, and emerging scoring presence in Val who can easily put up 12 per next year, Amir Johnson whose offense in constantly improving and is even being used well by Lowry and Gay to score points.

    If we add Boozer we bring in another scorer with shaky defense, move Amir out of the starting lineup which would cause our D for the 1st unit to suffer AND would cause Amir to go back to being a sub-10 point guy because as a 2nd unit guy he couldn't carry the offense and the offense wouldn't be good enough for him to get easy baskets.

    This is not a Yahoo Fantasy pool, you don't win just by adding points and rebounds. There's a reason Taj Gibson closes out games for the Bulls.

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  17. #9255
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Here's my out there idea. Stop constantly adding pieces. We have two wing scorers, and emerging scoring presence in Val who can easily put up 12 per next year, Amir Johnson whose offense in constantly improving and is even being used well by Lowry and Gay to score points.

    If we add Boozer we bring in another scorer with shaky defense, move Amir out of the starting lineup which would cause our D for the 1st unit to suffer AND would cause Amir to go back to being a sub-10 point guy because as a 2nd unit guy he couldn't carry the offense and the offense wouldn't be good enough for him to get easy baskets.

    This is not a Yahoo Fantasy pool, you don't win just by adding points and rebounds. There's a reason Taj Gibson closes out games for the Bulls.
    I do agree with this, but quite frankly, we are missing pieces for this team to take a push forward, those pieces are really needed in the second unit.
    In fact, the starting five of Lowry/Derozan/Gay/Johnson/Valanciunas is our main "core", which is significant knowing we will have some stability going into next season.

    Bargnani is likely to leave, Telfair and Anderson expire, both Lucas and Gray are plaer options (I assume they will opt to stay with the team), Acy and Ross are rookies, going to second year, Kleiza likely being amnestied, and Pietrus expiring as well.

    Lowry/Lucas
    Derozan/Ross
    Gay/Fields
    Johnson/Acy
    Valanciunas/Gray

    The team needs to add a front-court player, preferably a power forward capable of playing minutes at the 5, a consistent back-up point guard i.e CJ Watson, Ridnour, and a veteran wing shooter, and or defender, i.e Mike Dunleavy, JJ Redick.

  18. #9256
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Here's my out there idea. Stop constantly adding pieces. We have two wing scorers, and emerging scoring presence in Val who can easily put up 12 per next year, Amir Johnson whose offense in constantly improving and is even being used well by Lowry and Gay to score points.

    If we add Boozer we bring in another scorer with shaky defense, move Amir out of the starting lineup which would cause our D for the 1st unit to suffer AND would cause Amir to go back to being a sub-10 point guy because as a 2nd unit guy he couldn't carry the offense and the offense wouldn't be good enough for him to get easy baskets.
    Agreed. Boozer-Bargnani, straight-up = sh*t deal.

    Boozer-Bargnani with a Chicago 1st-round pick = better deal, but still not worth it, IMO. And I highly doubt a pick is ever put on the table from the Bulls side.

    I'd still advocate for trading Bargs for pennies on the dollar, vs. trying to 'replace' him. Bring back expiring contracts, draft picks (any position), cap relief, trade exception, young players who haven't cracked a lineup elsewhere yet... all of these are more attractive to me, given the current status of this team (that is, nowhere close to contending for a championship), than Boozer and his massive contract burden.

    Boozer-Bargnani is the kind of deal you only entertain if you're 'this close' to contending and think a guy like Boozer can make the difference on-court, in spite of his salary. It's not the move you make if you're a young team still years away from contending. (same criticism I still have for bringing Gay on board)
    Last edited by jimmie; Thu Apr 18th, 2013 at 03:25 PM.
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  20. #9257
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Exactly if BC (or if my prayers come true the GM that replaces him) can flip Bargnani for a 2nd round pick, a 2nd unit guy, an underperforming rookie contract guy I'd be delighted, but if that's not happening let's just amnesty him, get rid of the cancer and move on.

  21. #9258
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Here's my out there idea. Stop constantly adding pieces. We have two wing scorers, and emerging scoring presence in Val who can easily put up 12 per next year, Amir Johnson whose offense in constantly improving and is even being used well by Lowry and Gay to score points.

    If we add Boozer we bring in another scorer with shaky defense, move Amir out of the starting lineup which would cause our D for the 1st unit to suffer AND would cause Amir to go back to being a sub-10 point guy because as a 2nd unit guy he couldn't carry the offense and the offense wouldn't be good enough for him to get easy baskets.

    This is not a Yahoo Fantasy pool, you don't win just by adding points and rebounds. There's a reason Taj Gibson closes out games for the Bulls.
    So what do you suggest a 34 win team do?

    Why can't Boozer serve the same task for Toronto he has served for Chicago?
    Who says Amir can't finish games?
    Who says Amir can't get starter minutes coming off the bench?
    per36 minutes it can be argued Amir is more effective off the bench as is so why is that a negative?

    And you never answered my question: assuming the Raptors amnestied Bargnani, who are the Raptors going to find for next season to replace Bargnani with Boozer's production without giving up any other assets for < $5M per season?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  22. #9259
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Im in favor of having amir do his thing off the bench he doesnt care and he plays to win, he comes to work clocks in and puts his hard hat on every night. Leads would be much safer with he and Acy doing that high energy gritty stuff together off the bench with a solid point running the show beside them, add Fields and Ross to that mix and Raptors look pretty golden. Cant forget Having Amir lead the bench is great for the defensive end, and hes developing some go to moves for scoring when he played off the bench or if he started there was no dip in quality in fact anytime off the bench he manhandled the opposing teams back up bigs.

  23. #9260
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And you never answered my question: assuming the Raptors amnestied Bargnani, who are the Raptors going to find for next season to replace Bargnani with Boozer's production without giving up any other assets for < $5M per season?
    My answer is they don't. You cut off the cancer and you, for the first time in 5 years, let your team build chemistry together. Let them play a full season without major change and if they're still a 34 win team then ya go ahead and make major changes again.

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