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  • actually... i take it back... i just went back and checked the last couple pages... almost every one of those threads was started by that SMH dude.. i must have come back to the board on a day he forgot to take his ritalin...

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    • So do if I showed U a HUGE pile of Shat and in front of the pile was this little turd. Would you constantly blame the pile on the one piece of caca?

      It just that the critic's seem to write the most reviews on players. Critic are negative in nature. They look for stuff to criticize about and beat the point to the ground. Critics seem to dominate the Web and drive opinions. But is their opinion correct? Is it the dominate opinion that represents the masses? No, but it usually gets the most traction because on the minions jump on the BandWagon for a little extra Horse Power.

      "fans seem to think that he should be beyond criticism" I don't think *anybody* is beyond criticism. Criticism helps people improve by realizing their faults and improving on them. If you do nothing but tell me all the things I'm good at I will probably never improve because I'll think I have no faults. BUT... if you constantly tell me everyday that 'I suck' and all the little minions tell me 'I suck' well then..... you suck.... because I'm a little Mud Monkey trying to hold-up a Big Pile of guano.

      Drea is our #1 option right now... he's is improving all the time. Maybe not the way you'd like him to but man can we support our guys more. What do you expect? Drea to put the team on his shoulders and part the Red Sea?

      "His fans seem to vastly overrate him and often take it personally if you don't agree."

      The spot light is difinatlly on him. The NBA is a business first and sports team second. Of course the media is going to talk about our #1 option a lot. We got nothing else to talk about. Does this mean we are overrating him? Or he's just the Poster Boy to sell tickets off. Who would come out in the Raptor's organization (that's getting a pay cheque) and openly chastise one of their biggest Marketing pieces? Nobody that values their job. Fans might take that as being 'Spoon Feed Cool Aid' about Bargnani talents. But it's just business. They gotta sell tickets. Do I get worked up because the Media is Sugar Coating the Raptors? No, I understand that if you got Lemons them make Lemon-Aid. Right now this team is one big Young Lemon.

      And basketball is 90% mental is 10% physical. If you truly 'Believe' you'll hit that 3 ball.... you'll hit that 3ball!

      Comment


      • I totally agree man. Bargs is by FAR our best player, and although statistically he has not matched some other former first round picks (who play other positions though), his performance on and off the court is fantastic. I love how people say an average of 17 and 6 and 1.5 blocks pg is "crap", considering he played 2nd fiddle in a non-motion offense based around CB.

        Bargs is da man.

        BWO
        Bargs World Order

        Comment


        • i hope he shaves more regularly this year. his beard always reminds me of that south park episode when Butters had testicles on his chin...

          pure pube face

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          • It is disgusting to listen to all the excuses being made for the SOFTEST so-called C/PF in the league! This softness is why Toronto doesn't win. Get hardcore thugs/bangers like Reg in large numbers so the Raps won't be laughed at anymore.

            Comment


            • Karl Marx wrote: View Post
              It is disgusting to listen to all the excuses being made for the SOFTEST so-called C/PF in the league! This softness is why Toronto doesn't win. Get hardcore thugs/bangers like Reg in large numbers so the Raps won't be laughed at anymore.
              HAHHAHA, guess what Marx, you need to SCORE to win as well. Go talk to the proletariat.

              Comment


              • i would say 25% of the Raps misfortunes are on him. The rest is on Colangelo. Having said that Bargs still is an average player that wouldn't be able to start for any play-off team.

                Comment


                • tbihis wrote: View Post
                  People here tend to exaggerate...."very poor rebounder, a very poor defender" i think is a little over the top. The guy averaged 6 rebounds (ranked 51st) and 1.4 shot blocks (ranked 14th) last season. I dont think one should label these as "poor" numbers, theyre average, but playing alongside Bosh who pretty much dominated the paint probably contributed to this. I think we should give him this season to see how he can adjust himself to being the #1 option, then you can throw him under the bus so to speak if he still puts up the same numbers.
                  You think calling Bargnani a very poor rebounder is an exaggeration?

                  Last season, Bargnani was 45th in the league in rebounding, despite being 42nd in minutes per game. 16 centers grabbed more rebounds than Bargnani did last season. All but 2 played fewer minutes than Bargnani. Per minute, Bargnani is even worse. He’s 79th overall or 30th in rebounding among centers. In fact, Bargnani was the second worst rebounding center in the entire league, ahead of only Ryan Hollins. And the only PFs who are worse rebounders are guys like Jeff Green and Rashard Lewis, who are naturally small forwards. Needless to say, Bargnani is a very, very poor rebounder.
                  http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...drea-bargnani/

                  THIS is what bugs me and why I'm often so vocal. Bargnani is a HORRIBLE rebounder. How can you say he's not? Just to add to my quote, among ALL centers, not just ones who qualified, Bargnani was 80th per 48 minutes. 80th!!!! You simply cannot defend that. You can sick your head in the sand all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that your statement is simply not true.

                  And no, Bosh didn't "take" rebounds away from Bargnani. Bargnani didn't rebound any better when Bosh was off the floor, and, besides, the Raptors were a poor rebounding team last year, so there were obviously rebounds available. They were just grabbed by the other team.

                  And in the preseason, he's rebounding at an even WORSE rate than last season.

                  As for you bringing up his shotblocking stats to defend his defense...

                  One claim that some people make is that Bargnani is a good shotblocker so he MUST be a good interior defender. Well, no. Just as someone who gets a lot of steals is not automatically a great defender. Two perfect examples. Joe Dumars is one of the better perimeter defenders of all time, yet never averaged more than 1.1 spg his his entire career. On the other hand, Micheal Williams, who played his best years in Indiana and Minnesota, was a virtual sieve on defense, yet one year was second in the league in steals.

                  Same goes for blocks. One of the best big man defenders of all time was Dennis Rodman, who never even averaged a block per game. Karl Malone was another excellent defender who only averaged more than 1 bpg once in his entire career.

                  Personally, I love playing against shotblockers because they often aren’t good defenders. They fall for fakes, are often out of position on defense and leave their man too quickly, making it easy to pass to them for a layup. A guy like Tyrus Thomas is a great shotblocker, but not a great defender. This is the case with Bargnani.

                  Bargnani actually gets a lot of his blocks on his man posting him up, often times without ever leaving his feet. He’s pretty good at doing this and CAN be a good post defender because he doesn’t leave his feet. What he is not, however, is an intimidating lane presence. Players don’t see him waiting for them and think twice. In fact if they see him waiting in the lane, it’s often an invitation to drive the ball. Once in a while he’ll get a block, but more often than not, the offensive player will get a layup.
                  http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...drea-bargnani/

                  Bargnani is a poor defender. Period. And with his defending more PFs so far, he's looking even worse because his only strength on defense is post defense, which he's not doing as much.

                  He literally doesn't seem to understand the basics of team defense. I don't know whether it's a concentration thing or what, but he doesn't rotate when he's supposed to, sometimes doesn't rotate at all and turns his back on the ball, which is something most kids learn not to do in grade school. Once in a while he'll get a block, but when you're 7 feet and play 36 mpg, you're bound to get a block every now and then when everyone is challenging you. Speaking of which, he's such a poor team defender that I've noticed teams actually focusing on driving at him. THAT is the sign of a bad defender.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                  Follow me on Twitter.

                  Comment


                  • Tim W.

                    "Bargnani was 80th per 48 minutes. 80th!!!! You simply cannot defend that."

                    How could Andrea grab rebounds when on *most* offensive plays coach has him parked out at the 3 point line?

                    I don't know what the opposing teams Shooting% was last years but I bet it was higher then most in the NBA. Meaning there wasn't a lot of opportunity for Defensive Rebounds because our team OVERALL defense was garbage.... But wait let's me get my Andrea Punching bag out one more time. Yep it was all your fault Andrea for your lack of help defense in a Wacked system.

                    How can a guy be blamed for his lack of Help defense when Calderon & Turkey-Glue hung him out to dry? How can a guy expect to play in a structured manner when the team clearly blew-up last year? I know Bargnani looks bewildered at times but maybe it's because he can't grasp the dilapidated team defense last year. He need a solid system to flourish. Not one that changes faster then Tiger's career.

                    You seem to have a lot of fire Tim W. but I think your riding Andrea a little to hard. We know how you feel about Bargnani, we read it over & over & over & over. Aren't your fingers exhausted from the Drea bashing train? Can you just let the train ride and bash....hmmmm I don't know.... somebody who deserves it. No wait.... lets bash our #1 option so he can feel welcome in T Dot. Big difference between talking about somebody's faults and Beating a Dead Horse into the Ground.

                    Comment


                    • tbihis wrote: View Post
                      I dont think AB has fallen out of favor with toronto fans. Ive been to games and seen how people cheer for him. Ive seen Bargnani jerseys all over toronto. I think the haters are mostly here in RR.
                      Been on a whole lot of sports boards in my day. Since Bargnani has entered the league I've seen great pessimism everywhere. Raptors Republic forums are not special in the case.

                      It all comes back to the #1 tag. Had he been taken 20th there would be no problem but he was taken 1st and with being taken first comes high expectations. In this case unrealistic expectations.

                      Comment


                      • PapiJulio wrote: View Post
                        Tim W.

                        "Bargnani was 80th per 48 minutes. 80th!!!! You simply cannot defend that."

                        How could Andrea grab rebounds when on *most* offensive plays coach has him parked out at the 3 point line?
                        Can we stop blaming the coach, please? It's simply not true that it's the coaches that tell Bargnani to stay out by the 3 point line. Bargnani is simply more comfortable there. And your excuse only makes sense in regards to offensive rebounding. Maybe you could explain why someone like Troy Murphy, who actually took MORE 3 point shots despite playing 8 fewer games, was able to finish 7th in the league in rebounding despite being parked out at the 3 point line?

                        PapiJulio wrote: View Post
                        I don't know what the opposing teams Shooting% was last years but I bet it was higher then most in the NBA. Meaning there wasn't a lot of opportunity for Defensive Rebounds because our team OVERALL defense was garbage....
                        Only five teams gave up MORE offensive rebounds than the Raptors. What that means is that, no matter what the opposing team was shooting, the Raptors were still giving more rebounds to the other team than most of the rest of the league. There were clearly plenty of rebounds available for the Raptors to grab, but they allowed the opposing team to grab them instead. And those rebounds that were available were on the defensive end for the Raptors. In other words, there's absolutely no excuse why Bargnani didn't grab more of them.

                        PapiJulio wrote: View Post
                        But wait let's me get my Andrea Punching bag out one more time. Yep it was all your fault Andrea for your lack of help defense in a Wacked system.

                        How can a guy be blamed for his lack of Help defense when Calderon & Turkey-Glue hung him out to dry? How can a guy expect to play in a structured manner when the team clearly blew-up last year? I know Bargnani looks bewildered at times but maybe it's because he can't grasp the dilapidated team defense last year. He need a solid system to flourish. Not one that changes faster then Tiger's career.
                        Have I ever blamed Bargnani solely for the poor defense? No, so please don't pretend that I have. He is, however, a big part of the problem. You can make up as many excuses as you want as to WHY he is such a poor team defender, but the fact remains that he is. He doesn't look any better when he plays with better defensive players. You just have to watch him to realize that he simply doesn't understand how to play team defense. He's not the only one who does things wrong, but he consistently makes bad plays on defense, and that simply can't be blamed on anyone else. If Bargnani were making good defensive decisions out there, but being asked to do too much because of other players playing bad defense, I could easily excuse this. But he's making bad decisions out there consistently, which makes a inadequate defense look even worse.

                        PapiJulio wrote: View Post
                        You seem to have a lot of fire Tim W. but I think your riding Andrea a little to hard. We know how you feel about Bargnani, we read it over & over & over & over. Aren't your fingers exhausted from the Drea bashing train? Can you just let the train ride and bash....hmmmm I don't know.... somebody who deserves it. No wait.... lets bash our #1 option so he can feel welcome in T Dot. Big difference between talking about somebody's faults and Beating a Dead Horse into the Ground.
                        I have a lot of fire because I find it appalling that people continually overlook or make excuses for his fatal flaws. Fatal flaws which will prevent the team from ever excelling while he's a big part of it. If people wouldn't constantly make excuses for Bargnani I wouldn't constantly have to poke holes in the validity of those excuses.

                        I don't ever start threads about Bargnani. I almost never bring him up. I'm well aware of my reputation on here. The fact that you don't feel that Bargnani deserves criticism is exactly my point though. He does. He's not the player that some seem to believe. He's an extremely poor rebounder and an extremely poor defender. You can't win with a big man who is like that.

                        You want me to shut up about Bargnani, maybe people have to stop making excuses for him and pumping him up as something he simply is not.

                        Hey, you really want me to shut up about him, get him traded off the team.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                        Follow me on Twitter.

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                        • I agree with Shaq, because Bargs won't get enough votes from TO fans to get a start (he isn't talked about that much outside the city, really) and the coaches haven't seen enough from him to give him a reserve role. With an Eastern Conference that has D12, Bosh, Amare, KG and Shaq (amongst other more popular/proven 4's and 5's), how does Bargnani get in?

                          Say what you want about Shaq, but he's got a pretty damn good resume that speaks for itself. We all know he says what he wants when he wants and doesn't care how anyone feels about it, so if Bargs saw or read that interview, he should just use it as motivation to produce at an All-Star level - we'd all throw it back at the Diesel if Bargs did make it to the court for an All-Star Weekend.

                          Apollo wrote: View Post
                          If Doc Rivers said it, I'd take it serious but Shaq? Come on now, the man is insecure and immature. Funny as hell at times but insecure and immature. He's somewhat tainted his image over the past five years with his lame ass quotes.
                          I guess you feel he's lost a step since this:

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-BoeBedZ3k

                          Comment


                          • Apollo wrote: View Post
                            Been on a whole lot of sports boards in my day. Since Bargnani has entered the league I've seen great pessimism everywhere. Raptors Republic forums are not special in the case.

                            It all comes back to the #1 tag. Had he been taken 20th there would be no problem but he was taken 1st and with being taken first comes high expectations. In this case unrealistic expectations.
                            Agreed but let's not forget he was taken 1st in a vey weak draft where few had any better consensus picks. He was a bit of a gamble as all picks that year would have been. That said he averaged 17, 6 and 1.5 blocks which very few players in the NBA do. He makes less money than many shitty NBA players with less numbers, less character etc..
                            He's only 25 years old , never played U.S. style ball, was raised as a shooting guard and has had to learn how to play center.
                            He has numerous talents, and a few defeciencies that are obvious yet nowhere near as bad to all as to the same group that rehashes them over and over and over on this site and a few others.
                            He earns pretty much what he's worth and the salary comparisons would prove that.
                            He has unquestioned character and off court presence ( not important to some but very important to me and others as I've stated before I would rather have a losing entertaining team, than a winning team full of thugs, druggies, gun slingers, wife beaters, and egotistical dicks.
                            He answers ever media question the same as he always has..with grace, smarts, class and humbleness. He has never ever blamed anyone else or dissed anyone including RuPaul who did not extend one finger to ever help him.
                            And yes I am tired of seeing everything posted turn into Andrea's fault, and a regurgitated diatribe of his weakness etc...
                            He alone is not the cause of the Raptors whoes ( far from it) and yet he takes the brunt of most everything. It really is disheartening to see supposed fans trash him day in and out no matter what...let's just say you don'tlike him and leave it at that and you can cheer someday when he gets traded.

                            Comment


                            • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                              Can we stop blaming the coach, please? It's simply not true that it's the coaches that tell Bargnani to stay out by the 3 point line. Bargnani is simply more comfortable there. And your excuse only makes sense in regards to offensive rebounding. Maybe you could explain why someone like Troy Murphy, who actually took MORE 3 point shots despite playing 8 fewer games, was able to finish 7th in the league in rebounding despite being parked out at the 3 point line?


                              Only five teams gave up MORE offensive rebounds than the Raptors. What that means is that, no matter what the opposing team was shooting, the Raptors were still giving more rebounds to the other team than most of the rest of the league. There were clearly plenty of rebounds available for the Raptors to grab, but they allowed the opposing team to grab them instead. And those rebounds that were available were on the defensive end for the Raptors. In other words, there's absolutely no excuse why Bargnani didn't grab more of them.



                              Have I ever blamed Bargnani solely for the poor defense? No, so please don't pretend that I have. He is, however, a big part of the problem. You can make up as many excuses as you want as to WHY he is such a poor team defender, but the fact remains that he is. He doesn't look any better when he plays with better defensive players. You just have to watch him to realize that he simply doesn't understand how to play team defense. He's not the only one who does things wrong, but he consistently makes bad plays on defense, and that simply can't be blamed on anyone else. If Bargnani were making good defensive decisions out there, but being asked to do too much because of other players playing bad defense, I could easily excuse this. But he's making bad decisions out there consistently, which makes a inadequate defense look even worse.



                              I have a lot of fire because I find it appalling that people continually overlook or make excuses for his fatal flaws. Fatal flaws which will prevent the team from ever excelling while he's a big part of it. If people wouldn't constantly make excuses for Bargnani I wouldn't constantly have to poke holes in the validity of those excuses.

                              I don't ever start threads about Bargnani. I almost never bring him up. I'm well aware of my reputation on here. The fact that you don't feel that Bargnani deserves criticism is exactly my point though. He does. He's not the player that some seem to believe. He's an extremely poor rebounder and an extremely poor defender. You can't win with a big man who is like that.

                              You want me to shut up about Bargnani, maybe people have to stop making excuses for him and pumping him up as something he simply is not.

                              Hey, you really want me to shut up about him, get him traded off the team.
                              Tim most of us agree Bargnani is a poor help defender and we are hoping / expecting him to improve. That said most of our team this year and last were / are horrible defenders yet get nowhere near the crap Bargnani gets.
                              Also one other point from me; If Bargnani became a better weak side defender it would not improve this team much because everyone else is still fairly weak leaving other guys open...the Chicago game was a great example that you and others blamed mostly on Bargs defense yet I ask you why Bargs should have to leave his man on virtually every play to cover the penetrating guard which should not be his fault. Help defense should be just that help defense. Instead on this team help defense means somehow Bargnani is responsible for both guards and all three forwards on most possesions because Jose, Jack, DeMar etc.. cannot keep their man in front of them, nor steer them the right way.

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                              • heinz57 wrote: View Post
                                actually... i take it back... i just went back and checked the last couple pages... almost every one of those threads was started by that SMH dude.. i must have come back to the board on a day he forgot to take his ritalin...
                                That smh dude has nothing better to do with himself because he's not a fan, and is a full time hater of predominately the Euro dudes. If you remember while slamming Bargs and al the Euros he normally supports stupid ideas like getting Arenas, or West.
                                I for one am very happy for one thing on this team that B.C. and MLSE do right and that is they stick to players that have some character and stay away from bums that are a constant disturbance no matter how much talent they have.
                                Look at who they draft and trade for to see what I mean: Davis, Alabi, Barbosa, Kleiza, Anderson, Weems, DeRozan, Bargnani ... all guys without dirty baggage and some measure of class.

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