View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

Voters
127. You may not vote on this poll
  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
Page 165 of 527 FirstFirst ... 65 115 155 163 164 165 166 167 175 215 265 ... LastLast
Results 3,281 to 3,300 of 10537

Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #3281
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    in a van down by the river
    Posts
    2,798
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Base year compensation

    Certain players in the first few months of a new contract are subject to base year compensation (BYC). The intent of BYC is to prevent teams from re-signing players to salaries specifically targeted to match other salaries in a trade (in other words, salary should be based on basketball value, not trade value). A BYC player's trade value as outgoing salary is 50% of his new salary, or his previous salary, whichever is greater. BYC applies only to players who re-sign with their previous team and receive a raise greater than 20%. It also applies only when (and as long as) the team is over the salary cap.


    This could be a good or bad factor. Good for us because we don't have to take on a bad contract to make it happen (ie, 8.5 mil goes out the door with 4.25 coming in?). I'm not sure, but someone can correct me on this. This can ultimately determine what we get in return for someone like Bargs. I'd love Marc Gasol personally but again, as a BYC player, I dunno how this is going to work (like getting prized players on rookie contracts?).
    excuse my ignorance, i'm somewhat contract and salaries stupid... but if the raps were to trade him, would he count as 8.5 or 4.25 against the other team's cap space?

  2. #3282
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,799
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote coastal wrote: View Post
    I don't think he would accept a bench role with the raptors. With another team perhaps, but not in Toronto. I do agree with you that he is probably more valuable than anything we can get in return for him, however, 80 cents on the dollar would be okay with me right now.

    I see Sacramento as a team with a high first round pick that might be interested in Bargnani. The draft still is an imperfect science so they might be willing to give up their first round pick for Bargs and a late first round pick (plus whatever filler it takes to make the deal work). Playing him at PF with Cousins at C may accelerate Sac's rebuilding plans significantly. The upside for us is that we may have two top 5 picks. Try to get Irving if he's there, obviously, but if he's not grab your wing of choice and Kanter to play C
    He likes Toronto, I think he would accept being a sixth man, unless a team like New York offer him a starting job. I know he likes New York a lot, but I don't think he'd leave for any other team, but if the management wants him to leave, I guess he would.

    As for Kanter, I was hoping BC would make a trade to get us another lottery or mid-range pick to get someone like Kanter, or Kyle Singler who I like, and Tyler Honeycutt. In a draft where apart from Irving, there is no star, picking a bunch a players in the 2-15 range could bring us some great talent. And it's what I think BC should do, get maybe 2 or 3 picks if possible. I thought he would do that with Peja's contract, give him to a team which is struggling, but has a high pay-roll.

  3. #3283
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    341
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I already have large enough sample of games to form an opinion, besides the fact Andrea has been playing hurt the last month, he has been dominating his matchups on a game to game basis (obviously more so before his injury) Off the top of my head the only games I can remember an opposing big posting a huge game against us, was Dwight Howard and Andrew Bogut, both games coming recently and good on them for taking advantage of a player clearly battling leg and knee problems. When Amir plays through back pain everyone praises him for going out and playing even when he scores like 4 points and grabs 5 rebounds. Well it's time to give Bargnani the same love he is playing injured and not using any excuses. Give it up for the Romanian Warrior. (and for those of you who dont beleive his injury watch replays of the last handful fo games (When he shoots his 3 points he can barly bend his knees and is using all wrist which is explaing his huge dip in 3 point shooting not to mention his overall shooting percetage.

    In regards to his defensive rebounding.. Andrea may not get the indvidual rebounds himself but he creates lots of rebounds for his teamates, which people like you obviously don't pay attention to. Andrea plays excellent man to man defence and thus causes his opposing player to shoot a low percentage which obviosly leaves his teamates in excellent position to rebound the missed shot. Also, you must not realize his block shot have been increasing lately which if Amir was getting 3 block a game he would be praised like no tomorrow.



    Quote Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
    You don't think Bargs is a bad rebounder huh? Then I have a challenge for you: next time you watch a Raptors game, just keep your eyes on him the entire game. Ignore everything going on except what he's doing and then come back here and tell me he's not a bad rebounder.
    Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Mon Jan 31st, 2011 at 10:12 AM.

  4. #3284
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think Jay is afraid of being fired for benching Bargs and making him be accountable for his mistakes on the court.

  5. #3285
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    11,954
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    They wouldn't be able to get what the Raptors really need, a quality young center. No Brook Lopez, no Joakim Noah, no Kevin Love(dude can play center) and no Al Horford. They could probably land Nene's expiring contract but he's already making a list of places he would like to play and from what I read Toronto wasn't on that list. Plus the age/talent ratio isn't as good as Bargnani's. Maybe Andrew Bynum but I think he's closer to Greg Oden than Shaq at this point. Plus he's been called out on his work ethic in the past.

  6. #3286
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,799
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    They wouldn't be able to get what the Raptors really need, a quality young center. No Brook Lopez, no Joakim Noah, no Kevin Love(dude can play center) and no Al Horford. They could probably land Nene's expiring contract but he's already making a list of places he would like to play and from what I read Toronto wasn't on that list. Plus the age/talent ratio isn't as good as Bargnani's. Maybe Andrew Bynum but I think he's closer to Greg Oden than Shaq at this point. Plus he's been called out on his work ethic in the past.
    I don't like Brook Lopez, and I wouldn't do a Lopez/Bargnani because NJ are high on him, and would probably ask for our lottery pick and maybe another player.

    As I said earlier, its very difficult for us to get a player for Bargnani, which is actually worth it. We're pretty much stuck.

  7. #3287
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    27
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Are you messed???

    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    For all you rebound fetish bloggers... Bargnani who pulls down 5.6 a measly 4 rebounds less per game is ranked 54th.
    Are you deranged? "Just" 4 rebounds? When the guy only averages 5.6? That means a 71.4% improvement!

    If Kevin Love (who you obviously don't think that highly of) increased his stats at the same "measly" rate you think Bargs can, he would be averaging 26.7 rebounds per game. Think about that for a second...

  8. #3288
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    27
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    Give it up for the Romanian Warrior.
    WTF is the "Romanian Warrior"???

  9. #3289
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    341
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Relax buddy this isant finance class your amazing at math congradulations. If you read my article you would see why he is below his expected rebounding numbers. Its not because you divide by 4/5.6

  10. #3290
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Richmond Hill, ON
    Posts
    1,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote ihatehaters wrote: View Post
    WTF is the "Romanian Warrior"???
    It's a slang for teabagging AB7.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  11. #3291
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    110
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    In regards to his defensive rebounding.. Andrea may not get the indvidual rebounds himself but he creates lots of rebounds for his teamates, which people like you obviously don't pay attention to.
    See, this is the kind of argument that gets you into trouble; you can't just throw out a statement like this without something to actually back it up.

    I would actually argue the opposite, that the other raptors have to work harder on the defensive glass because Bargnani is so poor at putting a body on his man. As a result, someone like Amir or Ed Davis has to compete with not only their man but also Bargnani's in order to secure the defensive board. Case in point: the Raps are 23rd in the league in defensive rebounding percentage (and that includes Reggie's work earlier in the season, would probably be lower if not for that), and shockingly 7th in offensive rebounding percentage.

    Pretty ironic considering the Bargs supporters claim that he can't rebound because he's far from the basket when the ball goes up. Guess the Raps don't actually need him to help much on the offensive glass. But on the defensive glass? Considering the team allows the league-worst opponent's shooting percentage? Those few defensive boards are crucial and can swing games.

  12. #3292
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    110
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    By the way, just read Liston's Statophile vol 11, the section on Bargnani's effort stats says all that needs to be said.

  13. #3293
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    341
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    By Definition: When pain threashhold reaches maximum capacity the Romanian Warrior calmly analyses the situation, watches the clock tick downwards steps back and calmly drills a cannon into the hearts of his victims leaving the court knowing his job is complete.

  14. #3294
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    I already have large enough sample of games to form an opinion, besides the fact Andrea has been playing hurt the last month, he has been dominating his matchups on a game to game basis (obviously more so before his injury) Off the top of my head the only games I can remember an opposing big posting a huge game against us, was Dwight Howard and Andrew Bogut, both games coming recently and good on them for taking advantage of a player clearly battling leg and knee problems. When Amir plays through back pain everyone praises him for going out and playing even when he scores like 4 points and grabs 5 rebounds. Well it's time to give Bargnani the same love he is playing injured and not using any excuses. Give it up for the Romanian Warrior. (and for those of you who dont beleive his injury watch replays of the last handful fo games (When he shoots his 3 points he can barly bend his knees and is using all wrist which is explaing his huge dip in 3 point shooting not to mention his overall shooting percetage.

    In regards to his defensive rebounding.. Andrea may not get the indvidual rebounds himself but he creates lots of rebounds for his teamates, which people like you obviously don't pay attention to. Andrea plays excellent man to man defence and thus causes his opposing player to shoot a low percentage which obviosly leaves his teamates in excellent position to rebound the missed shot. Also, you must not realize his block shot have been increasing lately which if Amir was getting 3 block a game he would be praised like no tomorrow.
    I'm not sure what games you've been watching, but I certainly wouldn't say that Bargnani has been dominating his opponents. Even the games where he scores, he still allows his man to almost always have a much better than average game. In fact, he's actually consistently allowing his opponent to outproduce him on the court...
    http://www.82games.com/1011/1011TOR.HTM

    And yes Amir has been playing hurt and getting props for it. You know why? Because he's still contributing when he's on the court. He still plays defense, he still works hard and he still makes a positive impact. If Bargnani has been playing hurt, he's been able to contribute literally nothing when he's not hitting his shot. He's actually a liability to the team. If Bargnani figures out how to contribute while he's hurt, THEN he'll get praise. Until then, why praise a guy for playing hurt when doing so kills the team?

    I have to say I laughed when you wrote that Bargnani creates a lot of rebounds for him teammates. Of course, he takes 18 shots a game and misses more than half of those (lately 75%). But Bargnani doesn't play excellent man-to-man defense. Not in the least. He has consistently allowed his man to produce higher than average. He gives up deep post position, gets blown by far too often and doesn't box out very well. I really don't know what player you're watching, but it's not Bargnani.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  15. #3295
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,436
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    By Definition: When pain threashhold reaches maximum capacity the Romanian Warrior calmly analyses the situation, watches the clock tick downwards steps back and calmly drills a cannon into the hearts of his victims leaving the court knowing his job is complete.
    Bargnani is ROMAN, not ROMANIAN.
    And dude, I'm a big Bargs fan, always have been; but you gotta drop this one. He's no good at rebounding or help defense. He's not. Plain and simple.

  16. #3296
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    659
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Interesting article, thought of this thread when I read it:

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18625

    One thing is becoming increasingly clear: there are a whole lot more teams looking for assets than selling them.

  17. #3297
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    341
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Bargnani is ROMAN, not ROMANIAN.
    And dude, I'm a big Bargs fan, always have been; but you gotta drop this one. He's no good at rebounding or help defense. He's not. Plain and simple.
    LOL i know it was sarcasm
    Seriously I would drop this but it just pisses me off when all people talk about is Bargnani and his rebounding / defensive issues. I have to get this off my chest because people are being mislead about this player. If you look at all his positive contributions towards the team and then people keep bring up some nominal issues and then running with them it pisses me off. So i figure I should end this myth before it becomes some maintstream issue where good or bad thats all people will talk about when they see, touch, smell or feel bargani. Ahh he scored 50 who cares his rebound percentage was -12% lets trade him. If his girlfriend starts reading opinions on this site she mights also start worrying Ahh hes in good in bed but who cares he cant rebound.,, lol you see where im getting at.
    Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Mon Jan 31st, 2011 at 11:46 AM.

  18. #3298
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    110
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    LOL i know it was sarcasm
    Seriously I would drop this but it just pisses me off when all people talk about is Bargnani and his rebounding / defensive issues. I have to get this off my chest because people are being mislead about this player. If you look at all his positive contributions towards the team and then people keep bring up some nominal issues and then running with them it pisses me off. So i figure I should end this myth before it becomes some maintstream issue where good or bad thats all people will talk about when they see, touch, smell or feel bargani. Ahh he scored 50 who cares his rebound percentage was -12% lets trade him. If his girlfriend starts reading opinions on this site she mights also start worrying Ahh hes in good in bed but who cares he cant rebound.,, lol you see where im getting at.
    I think we've identified the problem here: you value point production far more than you do rebounding and defense. You can't call defense and rebounding issues 'nominal' and expect not to get a strong response in here. Bargs provides one single positive contribution, his offense, but there's more to the game (and specifically winning) than just putting points on the board.

  19. #3299
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Markham, Ontario
    Posts
    2,851
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Im kinda all Bargnani-ed out. I went toe to toe with Tim W. in a previous post and i just got exhausted going around in circles.

    I dont think anybody here is saying he's the next Wilt Chamberlain (although he might be getting the ladies, who knows) but he certainly aint Araujo's big brother either.

    Fact of the matter is, this guy can score. But he plays lousy defense and a decent rebounder at best. Should he be traded? IMO, definitely not. You can pick off any bum on the street and give him a million bucks to shadow an opponent for 48 minutes and he'll do it, but you cant give the same guy 10mil and ask him to score 20pts a game, he can try, but probably wont be able to. Like i always say, get a defensive big beside him and he'll be fine. It takes talent to score, and perseverance to be a good defender, which Bargnani doesnt have. There are guys in the league who score a lot and doesnt do much in other cats (terry, crawford) but they still contribute to their team's winning ways. Like it or not, every sport, basketball included, the objective is to score more points than your opponent. When it goes down the wire, tied game and its your ball, youd still want Bargnani taking the last shot rather than your greatest defensive player.

    he's definitely not a franchise player, but 2nd or 3rd scoring option is what he is.

  20. #3300
    Raptors Republic Starter matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    500
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    LOL i know it was sarcasm
    Seriously I would drop this but it just pisses me off when all people talk about is Bargnani and his rebounding / defensive issues. I have to get this off my chest because people are being mislead about this player. If you look at all his positive contributions towards the team and then people keep bring up some nominal issues and then running with them it pisses me off. So i figure I should end this myth before it becomes some maintstream issue where good or bad thats all people will talk about when they see, touch, smell or feel bargani. Ahh he scored 50 who cares his rebound percentage was -12% lets trade him. If his girlfriend starts reading opinions on this site she mights also start worrying Ahh hes in good in bed but who cares he cant rebound.,, lol you see where im getting at.
    You are literally losing credibility by every post you write. Positive contribution?? we're losing 11 straight games, how is any of that positive?
    He' a center, and part of the job of being a center is rebounding, not saying you're lazy at it.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •