View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #3361
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    I think Wayne Winston needs to watch more basketball, because it's apparent to me he hasn't.
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  2. #3362
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think Wayne Winston needs to watch more basketball, because it's apparent to me he hasn't.
    It's math Timbo, you know it's correct

  3. #3363
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    He left off, among others, Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant. The saying "take it with a grain of salt" is a massive understatement.
    He does explain why they were left off the list, but obviously these stats don't take into consideration 'intimidation'. Which I think Dwight and Kobe both offer in mounds, and is a VERY unique 'skill' to bring to a team.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think Wayne Winston needs to watch more basketball, because it's apparent to me he hasn't.
    Well I think these are him just interpreting and translating the numbers. Stats are stats. But like I said, I'm not sure these weigh ALL variables perfectly accurately.

    Still interesting none-the-less. Won't ever lead to a SINGLE change in formatting or anything... unfortunately. Not sure we get another All-Star any other way for a few years. haha

  4. #3364
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Great. Amir can start next to Jamal Crawford in the All-Star game, with Bargnani and Fields coming off the bench. Because it makes sense.

  5. #3365
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Great. Amir can start next to Jamal Crawford in the All-Star game, with Bargnani and Fields coming off the bench. Because it makes sense.
    +1

    Fields is a beast
    Last edited by Multipaul; Tue Feb 1st, 2011 at 02:25 PM.

  6. #3366
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Just in case. I was being sarcastic.

  7. #3367
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    I'd take Field over Bargnani. That kid is a baller.

  8. #3368
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    So did anyone actually look at the rest of that list?

    Brook Lopez over Dwight Howard?
    Jamaal Crawford over...anybody?
    DJ Augustin?
    Jason Terry?

    Just to add one thing, Winston's own team rankings place NJ 4th last in the league, yet he lists two of it's players as All-Stars. Ditto the Raps, who are 2nd last, with 2. If that doesn't demonstrate that something is 'off' in his analysis, I don't know what can.

    edit: Looking closer at how he came up with the list, it clearly favours offensive players. All he's done is taken how many more points a player scores than your 'average' NBA player, then add the number of points that differentiates them from an average player on the defensive end. So a guy like Al Horford, who has a solid defensive impact but doesn't score much gets the shaft. It's a hell of a lot easier to make a net positive offensive impact when you look at a basic stat like ppg than it is to make a large net positive impact on defense. Sorry, but that list is crap.
    Last edited by Nine New Faces; Tue Feb 1st, 2011 at 02:37 PM.

  9. #3369
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Just in case. I was being sarcastic.
    Hey, numbers don't lie!

  10. #3370
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Numbers DO lie. They lie all the time.

  11. #3371
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Numbers DO lie. They lie all the time.

  12. #3372
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Study Jason Kapono before he came to Toronto if you think the only thing that matters is numbers. Then study him once he got to Toronto.

  13. #3373
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    Quote Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
    So did anyone actually look at the rest of that list?

    Brook Lopez over Dwight Howard?
    Jamaal Crawford over...anybody?
    DJ Augustin?
    Jason Terry?

    Just to add one thing, Winston's own team rankings place NJ 4th last in the league, yet he lists two of it's players as All-Stars. Ditto the Raps, who are 2nd last, with 2. If that doesn't demonstrate that something is 'off' in his analysis, I don't know what can.
    This is because his numbers take into consideration who each player is playing WITH and as well AGAINST.
    Bad teams have alot of Bad Players, and play against better players; according to Winston, the good players deserve more praise for still being good while surrounded by so much bad.
    Thats how I interpret it.. not sure I agree, but thats how I read it. haha

  14. #3374
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    "Who's got the Numb#rs? You tell me." hahah

  15. #3375
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Study Jason Kapono before he came to Toronto if you think the only thing that matters is numbers. Then study him once he got to Toronto.
    i agree with you... i just love the 1+1=5 pic..

    stastical analysis, and people who use it as the basis of arguments, really do need to be taken with a grain of salt...

    i was just flabbergasted by this thread after reading "Amir KILLS Bargs in adjusted plus/minus, which is exactly the stat Winston covets."

    i damn near thought multipaul created an alias account.

  16. #3376
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    Just to be clear, I'm not asserting anything other than Wayne Winston claims that Amir and Bargs are all stars via his method.

  17. #3377
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    This is because his numbers take into consideration who each player is playing WITH and as well AGAINST.
    Bad teams have alot of Bad Players, and play against better players; according to Winston, the good players deserve more praise for still being good while surrounded by so much bad.
    Thats how I interpret it.. not sure I agree, but thats how I read it. haha
    +1

    PS, imagine we could have Bargs at the 4, and Bogut at 5

  18. #3378
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    Quote Seeten wrote: View Post
    Just to be clear, I'm not asserting anything other than Wayne Winston claims that Amir and Bargs are all stars via his method.
    +1

  19. #3379
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    Using his model then Chris Bosh went from mega all-star to dud as quick as signing a dotted line.

  20. #3380
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    Default Interesting Article on Andrea Bargnani and the Raptors

    Zach Lowe wrote an article saying pretty much what most Raptors fans know except the biased ones who can't be objective.

    http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011...ors/#more-4920

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