View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #3521
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    what about Thrush Hermit?
    well, i do like joel plaskett...thrush hermit came along when i was too young to appreciate them (just a dumb high schooler then).
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  2. #3522
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    well, i do like joel plaskett...thrush hermit came along when i was too young to appreciate them (just a dumb high schooler then).
    I like that tune french inhale, i think that was them, sloan used to be good too. they kinda turned too beatles-ey though

  3. #3523
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    Deuces!

  4. #3524
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    no actually i dont care to explain
    You should care because I think your theory is wrong because you're not considering age.

  5. #3525
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    You should care because I think your theory is wrong because you're not considering age.
    Age is irrelivant in this situation. Bosh is one year older in age and five years older in basketball experience.

    Bosh was the engine of the team. He was given a long leash. Bargnani had no role. He stood at the 3 point line year after year. Where does age play a role in this?

  6. #3526
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Age is one of the most important factors when trying to determine where someone is in their growth as a player. Bosh took over as the main guy at 19. Considering that most players hit their prime between 25-30 there was great promise there for him to make great strides. Bargnani has taken over a 25. As I just said, most players hit their prime from age 25-30. This would suggest that Bargnani is reaching the peak of where ever his work and abilities are going to take him. For Bosh, the sky was the limit at age 19 showing all that promise. For Bargnani, at age 25, how much time does he have left before he plateaus? Your argument centered around Bargnani taking a similar leap forward to what Bosh did because now Bosh is out of the way. I'm not sure how you can suggest age is irrelevant unless you want to just try to get it out of the way because it's counter to your idea.

  7. #3527
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Bosh, one year older than Bargnani, is a far superior player. Bargnani can only hope to reach that level. Bosh was a more efficient scorer, could rebound very well and played decent defense.

  8. #3528
    Raptors Republic Starter WhatWhat's Avatar
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    Lol @ suggesting that Bosh stunted Bargnani's development when he has clearly regressed.

  9. #3529
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I think Bargnani playing next to Bosh shielded Bargnani frm constant scrutiny. Now he's "the guy" and it's "his team" and as such if they're not winning and he's not a top performer on both sides of the court he's going to draw heat. If Bosh weren't around from day one the guy might not have advanced to where he is now. We all should be able to remember how he lacked little confidence in his first three seasons even though he was asked to be a supporting player. Imagine if he were tossed in the deep end from day one.

  10. #3530
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    Age is irrelivant in this situation. Bosh is one year older in age and five years older in basketball experience.

    Bosh was the engine of the team. He was given a long leash. Bargnani had no role. He stood at the 3 point line year after year. Where does age play a role in this?
    Just for the record Bargnani played pro in Europe since 2002. So in terms of high level Basketball they've basically played the same amount of time. In terms of NBA play Bosh was drafted in 03 and AB in 06 so your numbers are as wrong as your logic in thinking that age ain't nothing but a number.

  11. #3531
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think Bargnani playing next to Bosh shielded Bargnani frm constant scrutiny. Now he's "the guy" and it's "his team" and as such if they're not winning and he's not a top performer on both sides of the court he's going to draw heat. If Bosh weren't around from day one the guy might not have advanced to where he is now. We all should be able to remember how he lacked little confidence in his first three seasons even though he was asked to be a supporting player. Imagine if he were tossed in the deep end from day one.
    Dude this year hes been tossed into the deep end from day 1. Your talking about a career role player, suddenly given bosh like responsibilities. Didn't you read my article its basically what I was talking about. Bosh played close to 35 minutes his rookie year, thrown into the fire shall we say. Avereaged a career low 11.5 ppg, thats not the point though. He was able to learn on the fly, play through the fear and more importatly play through the mistakes. Had Bargnani been given that same chance to grow his first few years, his game would have advanced at much quicker rate, and would have surpassed bosh's skill level long ago brootherr.

    PS how's Bosh doing in his new role... Look at Bosh numbers in a support role with Miami there quite similar to Andrea's from last year hmmm..
    Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 at 06:16 PM.

  12. #3532
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    The reason the two +/- stats differ is because one is a RAW +/-, and the other compensates for ones Crappy Teammates and Better Opponents. Suppose they are both correct... just depends what your definition of correct is.
    They follow their own formulas, and using these formulas spit out 'Correct' results. Whether the formula is flawed is probably the better question.
    And I'm not sure his defense is any better this year over last. At least last year he seemed to enjoy blocking shots. This year he's completely forgotten how!
    No, he's right. Basketballvalue.com also "adjusts" +/- to compensate for teammates and opposition. Their secret sauce is obviously quite different from Wayne Winston and probably also what Dan Morey of Houston uses. Just goes to show that the adjusted +/- stat can be very flawed and error prone.

  13. #3533
    Raptors Republic Starter matt's Avatar
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    Dude this year hes been tossed into the deep end from day 1. Your talking about a career role player, suddenly given bosh like responsibilities. Didn't you read my article its basically what I was talking about. Bosh played close to 35 minutes his rookie year, thrown into the fire shall we say. Avereaged a career low 11.5 ppg, thats not the point though. He was able to learn on the fly, play through the fear and more importatly play through the mistakes. Had Bargnani been given that same chance to grow his first few years, his game would have advanced at much quicker rate, and would have surpassed bosh's skill level long ago brootherr.

    PS how's Bosh doing in his new role... Look at Bosh numbers in a support role with Miami there quite similar to Andrea's from last year hmmm..
    Lets take a look shall we?

    Last season Andrea averaged 17.2 points and 6.2 rebounds as a secondary option, shooting percentage was 47%.
    Bosh this season is averaging 18.5 points and 8.2 rebounds as a tertiary option, while shooting exactly 50% from the field.

    We all know Bosh is no franchise player, but he is no doubt a far better player than Bargnani will ever be. Talent wise? I will give it to Bargs, but just because you have talent doesnt mean its going to pan out, the man simply cannot handle the pressure of doing anything besides hanging around in the 3 point line.

  14. #3534
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    The irony in all of this is that numbers are used to justify Barg's or any other player's status. However, good players (the ones that matter to their teams the most) can never be measured by numbers - intangibles such as heart, passion and effort in the truest sense of these words. The only thing we can discuss as far as this player is concerned is just numbers simply because he really has nothing else to offer (or elements of his game that one cannot measure).
    I sort of see it as talking about a Movie script without talking about the actual acting.

  15. #3535
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    A little chirping going on.

    Source: HoopsHype.com

    Maybe Reggie reads the fan boards? If he does he must be feeling pretty good about himself.
    I wonder if Tim W. tweeted back.

  16. #3536
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote matt wrote: View Post
    Lets take a look shall we?

    Last season Andrea averaged 17.2 points and 6.2 rebounds as a secondary option, shooting percentage was 47%.
    Bosh this season is averaging 18.5 points and 8.2 rebounds as a tertiary option, while shooting exactly 50% from the field.

    We all know Bosh is no franchise player, but he is no doubt a far better player than Bargnani will ever be. Talent wise? I will give it to Bargs, but just because you have talent doesnt mean its going to pan out, the man simply cannot handle the pressure of doing anything besides hanging around in the 3 point line.
    Well said and that's an excellent split to illustrate your point.

  17. #3537
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Not mention Bosh is the THIRD WHEEL on a team behind two of the top 5 players in the game...

    The Bargnani ball huggers grip seem to be getting stronger even though he's showing what he's made of. Why do you guys continuously make excuses?
    Keep Calm & Chive On

  18. #3538
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    According to your logic, 95% of people who have had very productive NBA careers have never played a season in the NBA. Including James Worthy, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, among others. I can't wait to see what Russell Westbrook will do in his rookie season. I think he might end up being very good. Same with Joakim Noah. There's something about him that makes me think he's going to make it in the NBA once he has his rookie season.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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  19. #3539
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    Dude this year hes been tossed into the deep end from day 1. Your talking about a career role player, suddenly given bosh like responsibilities. Didn't you read my article its basically what I was talking about. Bosh played close to 35 minutes his rookie year, thrown into the fire shall we say. Avereaged a career low 11.5 ppg, thats not the point though. He was able to learn on the fly, play through the fear and more importatly play through the mistakes. Had Bargnani been given that same chance to grow his first few years, his game would have advanced at much quicker rate, and would have surpassed bosh's skill level long ago brootherr.

    PS how's Bosh doing in his new role... Look at Bosh numbers in a support role with Miami there quite similar to Andrea's from last year hmmm..
    Bargnani average 35 mpg last season and 30 mpg the season before. Last season Bargnani took more shots than ANY player on San Antonio, Boston, Orlando and Utah.

    Besides, usually when you're not the primary option on offense, you have the ability to focus on things like rebounding and defense. Bargnani apparently hasn't done that.
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  20. #3540
    Raptors Republic Rookie Tortacular's Avatar
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    Bargnani an All-Star? Now there's a cold day in hades.

    If this was the early 2000s when there was zero post depth (Dale Davis made an All-Star team...) then maybe he'd have a shot.

    I can't wait to see that barnstorming team with Bargs, Amir, Landry, D.J. and Jamal. Watch out, NBDL!
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