I don't understand how his comments show a lack of understand of hoops. I understood him perfectly. At this point, you're just being a instigator.
I think when people are evaluating someones "effort" , it is a completely subjective concept. It's like saying "that chick is hotter than that other chick" and your friend disagrees with you.
You can't throw stats on effort, I personally think Bargs puts in a decent effort every night. But how can I prove that? I mean, you guys say he doesnt put in an effort when he grabs 22 pts and 3 boards. But Amir scores like 5 pts and 2 boards and that's effort?
The truth is you all take 20pts per game as if it was nothing. No effort required. Therefore I cannot argue within the framework of your paradigm of logic, which has been applied with one norm exclusively on bargs, and with another standard to other players.
If DD scores 13 pts and 2 rebs, you would say he put in a good effort. bargs gets 25 pts and 5 boards and you say "no effort, no heart, no driver". It is completely paradoxical.
Henceforth, there is no point in arguing these ephemoral concepts with anyone.
Arguing effort is like arguing "hotness", "coolness", "how funny someone is".
Numbers tell the story, 20+ ppg takes one thing- EFFORT
more importantly, how hot was the chick?
Bargnani takes 20% of his shots close to the hoop, and 67% of those are assisted. What that means is that, at most, 13.4% of Bargnani shots are Bargnani taking the ball from the outside and driving it to the hoop.
DeRozan takes 27% of his shots close to the hoop, and 59% of those shots are assisted, meaning that, at most, 15.9% of DeRozan's shots are drives to the basket.
These are obviously not conclusive stats, but they give you a pretty good picture of how each player plays.
Of course, those aren't the only stats we can look at.
Bargnani's FTA/FGA percentage is 29.9%, which means that for every 100 shots he attempts, he gets to the line just under 30 times.
DeRozan's FTA/FGA percentage is 33.8%, which means he gets to the line at a higher rate than Bargnani.
Player's that drive to the hoop more go to the line more.
Of course, from watching, we know that a good deal of Bargnani's free throw attempts come from pump fakes, whereas the majority of DeRozan's free throw attempts come from drives to the basket.
In conclusion, I think there is overwhelming evidence to support my claim that Bargnani DOES NOT drive to the basket more than DeRozan, and probably drives less.
As for my feelings on Bosh, I don't have any. I don't follow him or care any more or less about him than any other player. It's called being objective. Something I try and do with all players, even Raptor players. Calling me a "perennial Bosh lover" is yet another way to try and minimize my argument while ignoring the facts of it. It's immature and pointless.
Besides, how many games has Bargnani's subpar play and bad defense cost the Raptors games? Bargnani has a very low defensive basketball IQ. He doesn't shoot very well in crunch time (40%). In fact, Amir has better "clutch" stats than Bargnani does.
So if you "point out" Amir's problems in the clutch, you have to "point out" Bargnani's, too.
In other words, Bargnani struggled with EXACTLY the same problem that DeRozan stuggled with this year. The difference, however, is that DeRozan is only in his second year while Bargnani was in his fourth.
And by the way, for a guy who is "guaranteed" to score 20+ppg, why is it there have been 24 games when he scored less than that? That's more than a quarter of the games! That doesn't sound like a "guaranteed" 20+ppg to me.
And I certainly don't hate Bargnani fans. I get along with anyone that is reasonable, including several self-professed Bargnani fans. What these people don't do is call people haters for disagreeing with them, or ignore facts and arguments that contradict their argument.
The fact that you think that I only "point out" Bargnani's faults because I'm a hater is exactly the problem. You don't want to listen to my argument, so you categorize me in a way that allows you to disregard anything I say. You know what? Whether you would like to believe it or not, I actually have very good reasons to "point out" Bargnani's faults as I do. I don't do it to be a "hater". I do it because he really is an extremely poor defender who actually is a liability half the time he is on the floor. I do it because when he isn't scoring at least 26 points, he brings nothing else to the team. And in only a quarter of the games did Bargnani score 26 points or more. So in 3/4 of the games, Bargnani's inability to do anything except score was a liability to the team.
Your accusation that I'm simply a "hater" completely ignores the fact that I strongly feel that a team needs to play defense to win consistently, and you can't have a weak link on defense, like Bargnani, and win consistently. You can point to other players as much as you want (which you do), but none of that changes the fact that Bargnani is a very poor defender and plays a position where that's a major, major problem.
Again, I await your response.
Last night he was guarding a much smaller yet quicker forward in L. Mbah a Moute the guy shoots 2/7 that’s a clip of under 30%. This is a strong indicator that
a) Teams don’t / can’t attack him so they pass the ball
b) They shoot a very low poor percentage when they do attack him
As oppose to:
Bogut / Gooden were guarded by Ed/ Amir and they combined to shoot 16/29 which is a 55% clip.
So based on these numbers its fairly conclusive that
a) The bucks were much more willing to attack our supposed defensive gems Ed and Amir
b) They were much more willing and successful at attack Ed and Amir as appose to Andrea
Now again these numbers may be a tad off ass there may have been a few switches but basically to sum up …
KING BARGS NSN -BWO
Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Thu Mar 31st, 2011 at 03:54 PM.
Why is it I've been able to have reasonable discussions with Bargnani fans such as Joe Panini and Matt52, among others, and still gotten along well with them? The main reason is they don't see a criticism of Bargnani as some sort of personal attack on them. They don't resort to calling someone who disagrees with them a hater. They don't try and evade questions that they may not like the answer to. I suggest you follow their lead.
And I'm still waiting for your responses to my last post.
Tim "The Termin-hater" W.
i hate bargs arguments.
I don't think you are a "hater" in general.
I think Bosh is a lil biotch and always hated him, I don't need to get in another Bosh hating argument with anyone.
I like your comments and I think you know alot about hoops, and I feel bad that you hate me and my boy King Bargs. By hating Bargs, a Raptor, you do in some small way hate the Raptors, at least the % of them named Il Mago
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