View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #4641
    Raptors Republic Rookie webcrawler89's Avatar
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    Amir and DD did not outrightly blame Bargnani, they said what was the truth in that if you want to be a good defensive team, you HAVE to have a good defensive Center. On offense, the floor general is the PG, but on defense, the floor general is ALWAYS either a big Centre or a big PF. Andrea hasn't done his job, I've seen several times where he's moved out of the way to give some guy a clear path or didn't jump for a rebound or didn't box out, didn't move in for the help defense. If we want to be a good team, we have to get a good centre, that's how it works.

    If AB goes somewhere else and does good, then great for him. Personally, I feel like management and coaching should take a lot of the blame here, we're actually a pretty bad organization when it comes to dealing with players, and if we could just fix that, we could probably turn Andrea into a defensive player and keep him. But since we can't do that, we're just gonna have to do the next best thing, which is trade him.

  2. #4642
    Raptors Republic Starter Deadallus's Avatar
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    At this point it useless to point out what he does and doesn't do well. Everyone knows his strengths and weaknesses. The most important thing to take from this article is that it just isn't working out with Bargnani in Toronto and they should go their seperate ways. No hard feeling, thanks for what you have done in Toronto, but you have to go. Good luck in the future.
    Deadallus

  3. #4643
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    if bargnani isn't gone by next year, i think someone just might think of some crazy scheme to get his ass deported.
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  4. #4644
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    Why don't we keep developing players for 5-7 years and trade them, oh wait we do that. maybe we need some stability and let them learn including bargs

  5. #4645
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Well, who should Colangelo have to justify his actions to? Who does he report to? His record as gm of the Raptors is lousy to say the least. I'd personally like to hear his explanation for why Mitchell was fired instead of being given the authority to coax some effort out of Bargnani. If a Spurs rookie was not playing up to expectations and wasn't getting into the rotation as a result, do you suppose the Spurs would react by firing Popovich?
    When Colangelo was hired it was with the authority to run the basketball operations without interference from ownership regarding trades. That is how it should be. You wouldn't want somebody from MLSE having the final say on trades would you? As for Sam Mitchell, a lot of fans in hindsight think his firing was a mistake but as much as I like Sam he's no Popovich.

  6. #4646
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    Quote Stu jackson wrote: View Post
    Why don't we keep developing players for 5-7 years and trade them, oh wait we do that.
    Yes. Because it's happened twice that means it now will always happen.
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  7. #4647
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    Quote WhatWhat wrote: View Post
    *Risks derailing thread* We'll agree to disagree?

    I honestly don't think that Calderon has ever made his teammates better. Nash makes his teammates better, Rose makes his better, CP3 makes his teammates better. Calderon does a good job a facliating, not creating. Nash typically gets into the paint, attracts a crapload of attention, and dumps it off to an open big or open shooter.

    With Calderon, he'll make the right pass, but he won't create for others. With a P&R with Amir, Amir will cut to the basket and get excellent position. Calderon will make the correct pass to him and Amir will very likely finish it, but Calderon didn't create
    it.

    Calderon isn't a dynamic player, nor will we have a roster suited for him. Starting him hasn't worked. Starting Bayless might. So we should give Bayless a chance if we don't get Irving, is what I'm still trying to say. Off the bench, I would not have a problem at all with Calderon, but starting the guy simply hasn't been working out.
    Funny that so many other threads often get derailed talking about Bargnani and this Bargnani thread is being threatened to be derailed by a Calderon discussions.

    Anyway, the team performs better when Calderon is on the floor. That's really the best evidence that Calderon makes his teammates better. Does he do it as well as players like Nash? Obviously not. But just because they're on a higher level doesn't mean Calderon doesn't do it. Calderon knows how and where to deliver the ball. That's a VERY underrated skill that most PGs in the league simply don't have, including Bayless. It's why I've argued over the years that I'd take Calderon in a second over guys like Devin Harris, Maurice Williams and Rodney Stuckey, all guys who have better physical skills than Calderon but lack his basketball IQ.

    No, Calderon isn't a dynamic PG, but that's not really not incredibly important. You don't need a dynamic PG to win. And I don't really understand how starting Calderon hasn't worked. How hasn't it worked? No one is saying that Calderon is an All-Star, but you don't need an All-Star PG to win. And I also don't know why you say the roster isn't suited to him. The roster is so full of holes that I don't think it's suited to ANYONE. Derrick Rose probably couldn't turn this team into a playoff team.

    And as I said it's not as if either Calderon or Bayless are the long term answer. My point is that if the Raptors don't get a Kyrie Irving, then I'd rather hold onto Calderon until someone better comes along. He's an efficient offensive player who works hard and is a great teammate. You can't ask for much more than that.
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  8. #4648
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    What you are saying makes perfect sense but is not doable in this team ANYMORE. Players like Amir and DD has taken an stand by blaming all the defensive problems on AB. If we keep AB, it will be same thing all over again. Amir and DD or ... can simply do not give their 100% on the defensive end because they know at the end, AB can be used as the blame.

    I think it is fair to AB to be traded where he can enjoy his time. I was looking at CB4 last night ( who was under alot of critisim last year here in Toronto). He had 25 and 12 and was enjoying himself.

    I am looking at Marco and Jack right now, in play offs, scoring 10 and 8 point each in the first half and .... enjoying their time.
    Like i said in a past post, this will probably be the only time im actually rooting for a player to be traded, not because i hate him, but because i want the player to actually enjoy his career and be of a contributor to another team. I think the backlash Bargnani has received from this site is just horrendous, considering you have a guy here who never created any problems with the team, with a solid team attitude and who always played his best to his abilities. keyword: abilities. and i think its dicksquat when people says he does not defend or rebound, i think he does, he's just does not live up to what people expected him to be. last year there were no screams of trade bargnani and all that stuff, because everybody was pretty busy putting bosh under the bus (offense was stagnant, padding his stats, too many jumpers, cant defend, etc etc) now the guy gets thrown in the spotlight and everybody turns into don cherry. i cant wait for bargnani to be traded and demar gets the franchise. i wonder how the RR experts will find ways to degrade demar's play and eventually create a vendetta to get rid of another raps so-called franchise player.

    hahaha yeah, and if you guys didnt notice, all the players the raps released are now enjoying the playoffs - peja, bosh, jack, marco

  9. #4649
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    I don't know about this Bargnani saga. I was all over him towards the end of the season, just like everybody else. But maybe give him one more year at the power forward? What has really changed my mind about him is how well he's handling this criticism. Whats the worst that could happen? He's got one of the sweetest strokes in the game!
    hahaha nick, you just drew a bullseye on your back.

    *in a whispering voice* - hey nick, nobody likes bargnani around here, lets just pretend we dont like him too so people here will like us. hehehehe

  10. #4650
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Default Solutions to keeping Bargnani

    Im ready for the pie-throwing, mud-slinging, face-spitting, hehehe.

    If the raps do decide to keep Bargnani, what can you offer as solutions that will allow him to still contribute to the team?

    My suggestion would be to play him ala-jamal crawford. make him your sixth man, give him 20-25 minutes, let him shoot to his heart's desire and play him along a defensive big who can man the paint while he does his thing.

  11. #4651
    Raptors Republic Starter WhatWhat's Avatar
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    Or trading Amir for...something, but his trade value is probably low (and the whole being far more efficient than Bargnani thing).

    Davis + unprotected 1st/draft rights + Bayless for Bogut and Gooden/Mags

  12. #4652
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    WHy on earth isn't he a center? He's 7 feet, 250 lbs and his only "strength" on defense is his ability to defend tall, back to the basket centers. I've never understood the argument that he's not a center. It makes no sense.
    I guess the same as Magic Johnson is 6'9 and is not a power forward. Last time i checked he was listed as a point guard.

  13. #4653
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Good lord why would you do that trade
    @jerboat

  14. #4654
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    Teach him how to be a good assistant coach. Or a water boy.
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  15. #4655
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    Quote WhatWhat wrote: View Post

    Or trading Amir for...something, but his trade value is probably low
    Yes, having an extremely efficient season, while improving his fouls while gaining the ability to his the 15 foot jumper at a good rate, while having a reasonable contract would make his trade value low.

    I'd keep him, but not because his trade value is low, but because he's the kind of player you want if you hope to build a winning team. If the Raptors trade Amir, but keep Bargnani, then I'm going to forget about criticizing Bargnani and focus my sights on Colangelo.
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  16. #4656
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    I guess the same as Magic Johnson is 6'9 and is not a power forward. Last time i checked he was listed as a point guard.
    And bringing up one of the most unique and rarest talents ever seen in the history of the league doesn't strengthen your argument. Maybe you could tell me why exactly Bargnani is not a center and what position he really is.
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  17. #4657
    Raptors Republic Rookie Jordan-Drexler's Avatar
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    How I Feel about Another Bargnani Thread

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    What if... Blazers had drafted both Drexler, Jordan?

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  18. #4658
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Teach him how to be a good assistant coach. Or a water boy.
    +1

    and you say youre not a hater....

  19. #4659
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Jordan-Drexler wrote: View Post
    How I Feel about Another Bargnani Thread

    . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
    . . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
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    I know what you mean. But the thing is, everybody keeps saying trade Bargs but the reality is he could still be in a Raps uniform come next season.

  20. #4660
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    And bringing up one of the most unique and rarest talents ever seen in the history of the league doesn't strengthen your argument. Maybe you could tell me why exactly Bargnani is not a center and what position he really is.
    Well that wasnt the premise of your argument. You said Bargnani is a 7 footer and 250lbs so he should be a center. Maybe back in your day, when coaches were like, ok, youre short so you bring the ball down, you tall guy, stand in the middle....But thats not how basketball is anymore, coaches nowadays ask, what position do you play? Doesnt matter if Magic was what you say he is, he played PG with that 6'9 200lbs frame. Im sure at one point in his career somebody told him he better smarten up and play his "expected" position, but if he did, we probably wouldnt be talking about him now, would we? BTW, Dirk is also another example, he's listed at 7 feet and 250lbs, power forward.

    Why is Bargnani not a center? Simple, because he says he isnt one. He of all people should know what position he plays, if he says he's a power forward, then he is a power forward. how could you know any better than the actual player himself?

    Ive said this before, the Raps need to get players that they need, not because they want to mold them into something theyre not. And that was their biggest fault with Bargnani.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Mon Apr 18th, 2011 at 08:43 AM.

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