View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #461
    Raptors Republic Rookie CB4's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    I think the whole argument of "leadership" is overrated. Leadership menas nothing in the NBA if you have no talent. Talent wins and when you have talent 'leaders' guide the team to get the most out of that talent. The Raps had very little serious talent on this club last year (just 'potential' unproven youngsters and overrated players i.e Turks, Calderon, Bargnani) and have even less this year.
    I disagree. I think The Raptors would have been better than a lot of teams in the East if they had a real leader. Don't you think a guy like Derek Fisher would have got in the face of Türkoğlu or Bargnani for their lack of defense? Don't you think he would have criticized our team when we went on losing streaks for simply not playing with effort? I think we got our wins by talent, not passion or effort. On paper, don't you think we were more talented than the Bucks, Bobcats, or even Bulls the way we beat them early in the year? Those teams simply outworked us for the playoff spots.

  2. #462
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Default Do The Raptors Win When Bargnani Takes Three-Point Shots?

    Bargnani played in 80 games in 09-10.

    When Bargnani made three or more 3FGs a game he averaged 21.1 ppg and the Raptors were 20 - 14.

    In those 34 games he made 52% of his 5.0 3FGA per game.

    When Bargnani made one or zero 3FGs in a game he averaged only 14.4 ppg and the Raptors were 19-27

    In those 46 games he made 21% of his 3.4 3FGA per game

    Conclusion:

    When Bargnani was hot from beyond the arc he about took 5.0 3FGA a game and the Raptors played well.

    When Bargnani was cool from beyond the arc he took 3.4 3FGA a game and the Raptors did not play well at all

    The problem is that he only made more than 1 3FG in 34 of his 80 games.

    Bargnani can not score unless he is hot from beyond the arc and he is way too inconsistent from beyond the arc for the Raptors to build their offense around.

    ============================================

    Four or more 3FGM in a game
    ---------------------------------
    3FGM--------4.4
    3FGA--------6.0
    3FG%-------73.3%
    PPG---------28.8
    Wins---------2
    Losses-------3

    Three -3FGM in a game
    -----------------------------
    3FGM--------3
    3FGA--------6.0
    3FG%-------50.0%
    PPG---------19.0
    Wins---------5
    Losses-------3

    Two -3FGM in a game
    -----------------------------
    3FGM--------2
    3FGA--------4.38
    3FG%-------45.7%
    PPG---------20.2
    Wins--------13
    Losses-------8

    One -3FGM in a game
    -----------------------------
    3FGM--------1
    3FGA--------3.85
    3FG%-------26.0%
    PPG---------15.4
    Wins--------14
    Losses------19

    Zero -3FGM in a game
    -----------------------------
    3FGM--------0
    3FGA--------2.15
    3FG%-------00.0%
    PPG---------11.7
    Wins--------5
    Losses------8

    Source:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/...AXy5Oq.5lTPaB4
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Thu Aug 19th, 2010 at 03:04 PM.
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  3. #463
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    bargs is more marquee than Bosh ever was. bosh was a false idol, a paper puppet.

    bargs is the best player on the raptors, marquee or not, he is our go-to guy right now.

    and toronto's only all star

  4. #464
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    To me, a marquee player is simply a player that fans would pay to see. Someone whose name you could put on the marquee to attract fans. Basically someone with name recognition. The Raptors have no one on the team that really fits that description at the moment. Bargnani may be a marquee player in Italy, but not in North America. Not by a long shot. How many fans are going to buy a ticket simply because Bargnani is playing? That's not a shot at him. I'm not really sure Bosh was either. Had he been, the Raptors most certainly would have been a better draw on the road than they were. I do think he was the face of the franchise, but someone fans paid tickets to go see? I don't think so.

  5. #465
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    I like the stats but I might disagree with the conclusion.

    It seems if he shoots more we have more success. He will be succesful (offensively) If he stays confident in his shot (which is crucial with any player).

    I am not confident he can shoulder the work load for our whole team, but I am still confident he can bring something to the table if we play as a 'team'.

    I think that's the part everyone is forgetting. They are saying it's going to Andrea OR the YGZ, Davis OR Andrea. What about Andrea AND the YGZ or Andrea AND Davis.

    For too long we have gotten caught up in the building around a 'star' player mode. I think our only chance for success (especially this year) is if everyone plays their role.

  6. #466
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    Of course Not.

  7. #467
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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    I like the stats but I might disagree with the conclusion.

    It seems if he shoots more we have more success. He will be succesful (offensively) If he stays confident in his shot (which is crucial with any player).

    I am not confident he can shoulder the work load for our whole team, but I am still confident he can bring something to the table if we play as a 'team'.

    I think that's the part everyone is forgetting. They are saying it's going to Andrea OR the YGZ, Davis OR Andrea. What about Andrea AND the YGZ or Andrea AND Davis.

    For too long we have gotten caught up in the building around a 'star' player mode. I think our only chance for success (especially this year) is if everyone plays their role.
    Bargnani is just not a consistent 3FG shooter. Those are the facts. Allowing him to take more 3 point shots does not mean that he will increase his 3FG% and will make them. If the Raptors game plan is designed for him to shoot five or more three point shots a game their opponents will set their defenses accordingly.

    Bargnani does not get to the foul line enough.

    With him it is basically all or nothing on bombs from beyond the arc.

    Good for keeping the Raptors 3FG consecutive streak alive.

    Bad for them winning.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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  8. #468
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Bargnani is just not a consistent 3FG shooter. Those are the facts. Allowing him to take more 3 point shots does not mean that he will increase his 3FG% and will make them. If the Raptors game plan is designed for him to shoot five or more three point shots a game their opponents will set their defenses accordingly.

    Bargnani does not get to the foul line enough.

    With him it is basically all or nothing on bombs from beyond the arc.

    Good for keeping the Raptors 3FG consecutive streak alive.

    Bad for them winning.
    If our team is going to work together then I think Andrea taking 3-5 shots from 3 isn't a bad thing. I'm not saying park on the 3 point line, he definitely needs to mix it up. But I think we need him to open up those defenses for guys like Demar, Sonny and Amir.

    TEAM That should be the only 'motto' this year for the raps

  9. #469
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Besides... statistics-wise Andrea is the best 'Young Big' at shooting the 3.

    If you do a query of the last 5 years and choose players who are over 6'10'' and under 24 who qualified for the 3% title Andrea is at the top. Actually he has 3 of the top 5 occurences.

    basketball-reference.com

  10. #470
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    Quote Brasky wrote: View Post
    Means very little considering the competition.
    I disagree.
    The competition (european qualifiers) is not relevant per se.
    What is interesting is that Bargs, a foreign body in the Italian national team last year, has been asked to take a step forward and guide it.
    And, so far, he seems to have gained respect from all his teammates.
    He wants the ball, he does not lose his coolness when double teamed, he plays decently.
    Gallinari, the only one who could legitimately play this role in the Italian team, is not playing, so there is no clear evidence that Bargs has what it takes to be a leader.

    Still, at least these are not bad signs.
    Last edited by 3nr1c0; Thu Aug 19th, 2010 at 03:43 PM.

  11. #471
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Quote Hassan wrote: View Post
    bargs can be an offensive leader.not a defensive one
    Led our team in Blocks last year ... and will be the one standing in front of the rim as the last line of defence again this season. Who other than Bargnani makes a strong case as our defensive leader? Nobody ... hopefully it will be Ed Davis in a few years, but not today.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  12. #472
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    Many people, me included, think DeMar will be the future franchise player, a player who has just come off an average rookie season by the way. That's how much confidence Bargs instills.

  13. #473
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    Led our team in Blocks last year ... and will be the one standing in front of the rim as the last line of defence again this season. Who other than Bargnani makes a strong case as our defensive leader? Nobody ... hopefully it will be Ed Davis in a few years, but not today.
    G-d I hope not

    He like all the defenders on the back line needs to keep moving his feet as necessary in order to be able to rotate on defense as necessary, block out etc.

    Just planting himself outside the paint down by the basket and hoping to be useful on defense might work for D. Howard because he is quick enough and instinctive enough to know when to rotate and to be able to do it well, but it won't work for Bargnani Even Perkins at Boston moves around on defense and just doesn't plunk himself down low in front of the basket.
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  14. #474
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    Marquee means interesting enough to get on TNT on thursday night or the US network on Sunday. Bargnani is currently not interesting enough to be a spectacle unto himself. Two things make you marquee: talent and winning. I don't think he has either right now, but that doesnt mean he can't be a big part of a very good team in the future.

  15. #475
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    Not his fault he doesn't shoot all the time. I really hated when he would have 16 points and 2-2 3FG and then in the second half when the team starts catching up we would just dump the ball to Bosh while he watches the clock for 12 seconds and either jacks it up or drives left. This gets all players including Bargnani to just stand and watch in crunch time while he loses his heat. Then when he decides to take it and misses, we get mad at him. I really think he will have a great offensive season without Bosh, Turk, etc. dominating the ball.

  16. #476
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    Besides... statistics-wise Andrea is the best 'Young Big' at shooting the 3.

    If you do a query of the last 5 years and choose players who are over 6'10'' and under 24 who qualified for the 3% title Andrea is at the top. Actually he has 3 of the top 5 occurences.

    basketball-reference.com
    That is nice but it doesn't win games especially when it counts.

    The Magic rely as heavily on the three point shot as any team yet they didn't even make it to the Finals in 09-10.

    The Spurs are another team that relies heavily on the three ball.

    Its nice to have guys that can make the three when needed but the game of basketball has always been played "inside-out" and not "outside-in". I doubt that that is going to change for successful teams.

    The Magic's three point game is a lot more effective when Howard is scoring in the low post.

    The Raptors need to focus like all teams on scoring in the paint. That also increases the chances of getting to the free throw line.

    If Bargnani can increase his scoring in the paint and the number of times he gets to the free throw line per game then that would be great and help the Raptors offense immensely.

    I would much rather have him work on that then just chucking up three point shots.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Thu Aug 19th, 2010 at 05:01 PM.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  17. #477
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    Quote CB4 wrote: View Post
    I disagree. I think The Raptors would have been better than a lot of teams in the East if they had a real leader. Don't you think a guy like Derek Fisher would have got in the face of Türkoğlu or Bargnani for their lack of defense? Don't you think he would have criticized our team when we went on losing streaks for simply not playing with effort? I think we got our wins by talent, not passion or effort. On paper, don't you think we were more talented than the Bucks, Bobcats, or even Bulls the way we beat them early in the year? Those teams simply outworked us for the playoff spots.
    I don't know if Fisher woould have gotten anymore out of Turkolglu or Bargnani than they did. Turkologlu was not committed to playnig ball the right way last year and was out of shape from the get go. Bargnani does not have the work ethic or basketball i.q (from a defensive level) to be a marquee player. It's his 4th year and he STILL DOESN"T understand his defensive rotations for crying out loud.

    Fisher wouldn't change these things, Jack and Wright who were newcomers to the team and questioned the 'accountability' factor on the team yet nothing was done and Raps choked down the stretch. Bucks, Bobcats and Bulls all had similar talent but the difference between them and the Raps is that those teams actually defend and take some pride in it whereas Raps players were allowed to coast under a soft coach and GM.

  18. #478
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    bargs is more marquee than Bosh ever was. bosh was a false idol, a paper puppet.

    bargs is the best player on the raptors, marquee or not, he is our go-to guy right now.

    and toronto's only all star
    It would be nice if he actually was an all-star before deeming him an all-star.

  19. #479
    Raptors Republic Rookie Afro_Daddy's Avatar
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    well it is called nba.com for a reason

  20. #480
    Raptors Republic Rookie brakeman1's Avatar
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    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Any team that has to rely on Bargnani as its Franchise(Marquee) player is doomed in the NBA. Bargnani has shown me nothing but inconsistency over his career and in year 5 folks should expect more of the same- has Bargnani ever grabbed 20 rebounds in a game? Barg's had a chance to step up when Bosh was out and he did not- now he's suppose to lead TO for a whole season?lol With the bright lights focused on Bargnani in 2010-11 he will wilt from the brightness- just wait....pressure makes Diamonds but it also bursts pipes.

    BC's Raptor vision is bullsh*t with Bargnani as the biggest roster turd!!!!!!!!
    Agreed, all I hear about Bargnani is excuses. First it was Bosh was keeping him from shining now its the italian coach didn't use him correctly to the player that he was guarding was a nba allstar in the making. I can't wait for the season to start so he can be traded and colangelo can be shown the door along with his number one pick. Ater year #5 youre not going to see anything that you havn't seen already. NOBODY BUSTS OUT IN YEAR FIVE.
    Last edited by James Ballswin (Realizar); Sun Aug 22nd, 2010 at 01:14 AM. Reason: Corrected formatting of quotation

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