View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #1341
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    Hold up did someone actually reply that they would still pick Andrea over Brandon Roy ?
    ha ha

    stop lying !

  2. #1342
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    Quote jrdyck wrote: View Post
    Did Andrea get a single play run for him yesterday? The Bulls announcers were talking all night about how little he was involved in the offence, and they were right. It was really beginning to frustrate me... seemed like they were restricting what he was able to do on the floor. The only place he got the ball was at the three-point line with a Raptor standing on either side of him. Not one post-up.

    Hopefully it's just a pre-season thing...
    Okay, for the last time (not to you). IT'S A MOTION OFFENSE. You don't generally run plays for people in a motion offense. If you want the ball, you move. Bargnani floats, he doesn't move, hence why he doesn't get the ball. The ONLY person to blame for Bargnani not getting the ball is Bargnani.

  3. #1343
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    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    I remember BC saying in an interview earlier this past summer that he gets trade offers for Bargnani all the time but he never mentioned the specifics or exact trade particulars.

    I was wondering what type of offers has BC turned down for Bargnani over the years.

    Is AB an irreplaceable part of BC's Euro based basketball ideology & philosophy experiment in TO?

    Is Bargnani part of the Raptor's future or is his value better used as a trade assest to gain better parts for TO?

    Can anyone enlighten me as to why BC seemingly to refuses the thought of ever parting ways with Bargnani?
    Hold on a sec! Are you saying u don't like Bargs??
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  4. #1344
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    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Was Jose the PRIMARY STARTER at pg for TO all those 82 games pre his big contract? No he wasn't. And ever since Jose got his big contract along with the starting pg job he has been very injury prone- fact.
    No he was never a full time starter for an entire season before receiving the contract, but he was a free agent at that time. It was either re-sign him or let him go for nothing. Signing him to the contract was the better of the two choices. And you said that they shouldn't have signed him to the big contract because he was injury prone. He wasn't before he signed the contract. There was no evidence to make you think he was. Hindsight is 20/20.

    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Rudy Gay wasn't drafted number 1 overall, Bargnani was and yet I'd take Gay over Bargnani contract and all right now. Potential gets folks fired unless there's a MLSE/Stern master plan ie Europeanize the Raptor's from the front office onto the basketball court. Also, it might not have been a bad idea to let Bargnani test the f/a waters.....but he's BC "Golden Child"..........smh
    Who cares where anyone was drafted. Once the draft is players play, their draft position is irrelevant. Bargnani certainly wasn't a bad pick, he just was not the best player drafted in a poor draft. In that draft, there have been only two All-Star, and one of them was drafted 21st, so it's obviously a little hard to predict. In that draft, only 6 players have become full time starters and only 3 have averaged at least 30 mpg over the course of their career. Unfortunately the Raptors got the top pick in a really poor year.

    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    It's not just their contracts it's the players themselves that are a hindrance to the Rap's. You never know who will come once you dangle the money. Money talks bs walks. Next summer they may still have Calderon & Bargnani as well.....smh
    No, you never know who's going to agree to sign if you dangle enough money, but this past summer was not a good summer to be a team with cap space if you weren't a sought after location. New Jersey had enough cap space for two max contracts and they got Travis Outlaw. Oooh! Washington, Minnesota, the Clippers and Sacramento all had cap room and didn't end up signing anyone of note. And while they still may have Bargnani and Calderon next summer, they'll still be under the cap.

    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Why not use the TPE then. What was all BC's luxury tax talk about pre Bosh signing with Miami? Another Bull Chit PR spin in the wind? 4 plus years ago BC drafted Bargnani #1 overall- the future you speak of mortgaging is now for Bargnani. What's wrong with making the playoffs today as tomorrow is never promised? I live in the now and worry about tomorrow when it comes BC needs to acquire quality veteran NBA players now not some more projects and put a competitive respectable team on the court ASAP. He has the means ie TPE/expiring contracts/young talent, to get it done. Ex: Utah acquired Jefferson via their multi million dollar TPE to make sure that they will still be competitive after losing Boozer- BC????
    You want to use the TPE exception? On who? On a player that another team doesn't want and that's overpaid? I think the difference is that your goal seems to be to make the playoffs. My goal is to build a Championship team. Throwing money at a guy who will get you a few more wins isn't going to do that. And I thought Utah grabbing Jefferson was a bad move. It keeps their head above water, but they're never, ever going to win with him because he's an awful defender. And he's overpaid. I'd rather pay Bargnani $8 million than Jefferson $13 million. Neither one is going to play defense for you, but I can spend the extra $5 million on someone that does.

    You live in the now, which is great, but good GMs have to see the big picture. It's why GM/coaches rarely work. If you're coaching the team, your main goal is to win each game. The GM has to be able to sacrifice a few games for the long term. A coach isn't going to want to do that.

    Oh, and I'm a firm believer that a team shouldn't go into the luxury tax unless it makes them a true contender. Not once have the Raptors been in a position to be able to do that. Most of the top teams went into the luxury tax to make the final step, and not before.

  5. #1345
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Yi Jianlian was the last trade offer I ever heard leak involving Bargnani. That was years ago. Colangelo doesn't like to show his cards.

  6. #1346
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Even motion offenses run ISO. It's not the bread and butter but it's still in the play book. Especially late in the clock.

  7. #1347
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Even motion offenses run ISO. It's not the bread and butter but it's still in the play book. Especially late in the clock.
    But why on earth would you run ISOs for Bargnani. He's not a give it to him and get out of the way type of player.

  8. #1348
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    No he was never a full time starter for an entire season before receiving the contract, but he was a free agent at that time. It was either re-sign him or let him go for nothing. Signing him to the contract was the better of the two choices. And you said that they shouldn't have signed him to the big contract because he was injury prone. He wasn't before he signed the contract. There was no evidence to make you think he was. Hindsight is 20/20.
    Do you not understand the words that I am posting? Or are you making up your own definition of my words? Jose never played a full season as the Raptor's primary starter at point guard pre his current contract (he split time or was backing up or starting over TJ Ford but was never the primary starter throughout the season)- nothing more, nothing less- comprehend? Making up sh*t to come off as being correct is 100% facetious balderdash- partner.


    Who cares where anyone was drafted. Once the draft is players play, their draft position is irrelevant. Bargnani certainly wasn't a bad pick, he just was not the best player drafted in a poor draft. In that draft, there have been only two All-Star, and one of them was drafted 21st, so it's obviously a little hard to predict. In that draft, only 6 players have become full time starters and only 3 have averaged at least 30 mpg over the course of their career. Unfortunately the Raptors got the top pick in a really poor year.
    Save that drama for the Dalai Lama. He was drafted number one over all any basketball follower knows how much prestige is given to the number 1 overall NBA draft pick especially since the Lottery era- recognize game or remain mentally lame. The Raptor's got the top pick in a very weak draft and drafted an unknown (to most NBA/Raptor followers) foreign project as part of the BC/Stern vision to Europeanize Toronto basketball in the NBA's globalization effort. It wouldn't surprise me if some behind the scenes maneuvering went on to ensure that TO got the 1st pick (in order to draft Bargnani) ala NY & Ewing. The NBA is a business looking to globalize itself & TO is an asset that Stern is using to do exactly such under the guise of a International philosophy NBA team in the TDot.


    No, you never know who's going to agree to sign if you dangle enough money, but this past summer was not a good summer to be a team with cap space if you weren't a sought after location. New Jersey had enough cap space for two max contracts and they got Travis Outlaw. Oooh! Washington, Minnesota, the Clippers and Sacramento all had cap room and didn't end up signing anyone of note. And while they still may have Bargnani and Calderon next summer, they'll still be under the cap.
    I'd rather TO be in luxury tax territory while getting rid of both Jose & Bargnani in the process.


    You want to use the TPE exception? On who? On a player that another team doesn't want and that's overpaid? I think the difference is that your goal seems to be to make the playoffs. My goal is to build a Championship team. Throwing money at a guy who will get you a few more wins isn't going to do that. And I thought Utah grabbing Jefferson was a bad move. It keeps their head above water, but they're never, ever going to win with him because he's an awful defender. And he's overpaid. I'd rather pay Bargnani $8 million than Jefferson $13 million. Neither one is going to play defense for you, but I can spend the extra $5 million on someone that does.

    You live in the now, which is great, but good GMs have to see the big picture. It's why GM/coaches rarely work. If you're coaching the team, your main goal is to win each game. The GM has to be able to sacrifice a few games for the long term. A coach isn't going to want to do that.

    Oh, and I'm a firm believer that a team shouldn't go into the luxury tax unless it makes them a true contender. Not once have the Raptors been in a position to be able to do that. Most of the top teams went into the luxury tax to make the final step, and not before.
    I want Carmello Anthony!!!!!!!!!!!

    Rap's need a SF/point forward (especially since Barbosa seems like their best overall guard & could start) and/or a center from the names I have read rumored to be available: Kaman? Prince? MWilliams? Diaw? Anthony? Okafor? Nene? SJackson?

    You gotta make the playoffs to get to the championship, friend....

    I'd take Jefferson and his contract over Bargnani- all day, every day- forever. AJ boards much better than Barg's as well as he posts up in the paint plus he is a basketball player with heart not a person with a heart playing basketball. Not to mention Sloan will hjave AJ playing D or he'll be sitting on the bench too bad Jay has to take orders from his svengali BC instead of making his own moves like Sloan......

    Jay "I liked the effort" Triano is the 1st NBA Canadian head coach- nothing more than a feel good PR story for the TO fans to suck up or spit out while being misled and deceive by BC, Jay & Gherardini......3 blind mice.......3 stooges.......3 the soft way.....

    BC's big picture Raptor vision is str8 up Bull Chit; from 2006-07 Atlantic Division champs (then Boston made the major moves while BC sat on his laurels & now own the Atlantic) to 2010-11 Conference chumps- as is. BC's future is now- I don't know what type of basketball paradigm you're trying to convey but I want a GM & coach who want to compete in every game and let the chips fall where they may instead of planning for a high lottery pick while feeding the fan base an unlimited supply of MLSE marketing propaganda in the form of various PR spins.

    What was BC's luxury tax media hype during Boshs' free agency? Just some bull chit to pacify the fans into thinking that he was really going all out to re-sign CB? If you want a winner in the current NBA a GM will most likely have to go into luxury tax territory until a new CBA is negotiated that how it currently is.

    That being said BC aka Bull Chit needs to learn how to- shut up! We don't believe you, you need more people.
    Last edited by SirChillyMost; Wed Oct 13th, 2010 at 03:23 PM.

  9. #1349
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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    Hold on a sec! Are you saying u don't like Bargs??
    I think that we have winner here.........

    If Bargnani was the 1st big man off the bench then I would like his game alot more but as a starter no way Jose.......as in Calderon.

  10. #1350
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    lol @ Colangelo being 5th in the most disappointing raptor poll...

  11. #1351
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    Bargs must have brought Swirsk some primo salami and cheese from the old country. Wonder what that endorsement was based on otherwise. Maybe Bargs will be a sympathy coach's pick from the Raps.

    From some of the pre season viewing my sense is that Bargnani's play has regressed from last season Cant say it might not have to do with all the new faces and that the ball doesnt go into the post area anymore (Bosh) and AB is having a difficult time adjusting to put himself in a ball receiving position. But in anycase as has been mentioned here... the man I think has decided that improving his rebounding, boxing out and general defensive responsibilities is not going to be primary to his game. I cannot believe that this has not been emphasized to him for the coming season. I can only assume that if he continues to play this way and BC has not lost his mind, he will get shipped out.

  12. #1352
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Bargs must have brought Swirsk some primo salami and cheese from the old country. Wonder what that endorsement was based on otherwise. Maybe Bargs will be a sympathy coach's pick from the Raps.

    From some of the pre season viewing my sense is that Bargnani's play has regressed from last season Cant say it might not have to do with all the new faces and that the ball doesnt go into the post area anymore (Bosh) and AB is having a difficult time adjusting to put himself in a ball receiving position. But in anycase as has been mentioned here... the man I think has decided that improving his rebounding, boxing out and general defensive responsibilities is not going to be primary to his game. I cannot believe that this has not been emphasized to him for the coming season. I can only assume that if he continues to play this way and BC has not lost his mind, he will get shipped out.
    Swirsky is clownin' on Bargnani & BC indirectly.......

    Chicago has 11 new faces and Noah's game hasn't appeared to regressed any......Reggie is getting the ball in the post.....

    Bargnani needs to post the fuck up and demand the ball- point blank. Bargnani will be here as long as his babysitter Gherardini is around and BC is the Raptor's President/GM.

  13. #1353
    Raptors Republic Rookie Karl Marx's Avatar
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    Obviously Swirsky is a complete idiot.

  14. #1354
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    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Do you not understand the words that I am posting? Or are you making up your own definition of my words? Jose never played a full season as the Raptor's primary starter at point guard pre his current contract (he split time or was backing up or starting over TJ Ford but was never the primary starter throughout the season)- nothing more, nothing less- comprehend? Making up sh*t to come off as being correct is 100% facetious balderdash- partner.
    Yes, I know he was never a full time starter. I have never argued that fact. I really have no idea what you're trying to debate, here. Calderon started 56 games the season before he signed the contract. As I said, though, it's not as if the Raptors had a choice as to when to give him the contract. He was a free agent, then, and Miami offered him a contract. It was either pay him or lose him.

    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Save that drama for the Dalai Lama. He was drafted number one over all any basketball follower knows how much prestige is given to the number 1 overall NBA draft pick especially since the Lottery era- recognize game or remain mentally lame. The Raptor's got the top pick in a very weak draft and drafted an unknown (to most NBA/Raptor followers) foreign project as part of the BC/Stern vision to Europeanize Toronto basketball in the NBA's globalization effort. It wouldn't surprise me if some behind the scenes maneuvering went on to ensure that TO got the 1st pick (in order to draft Bargnani) ala NY & Ewing. The NBA is a business looking to globalize itself & TO is an asset that Stern is using to do exactly such under the guise of a International philosophy NBA team in the TDot.
    If you think the Raptors drafting Bargnani was part of some sort of conspiracy, you are beyond hope. And I'm not the one that needs to save the drama.


    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    I'd rather TO be in luxury tax territory while getting rid of both Jose & Bargnani in the process.


    I want Carmello Anthony!!!!!!!!!!!

    Rap's need a SF/point forward (especially since Barbosa seems like their best overall guard & could start) and/or a center from the names I have read rumored to be available: Kaman? Prince? MWilliams? Diaw? Anthony? Okafor? Nene? SJackson?

    You gotta make the playoffs to get to the championship, friend....
    You do realize that simply going into luxury tax territory doesn't get you anything, right? San Antonio was never in luxury tax territory until last season. Orlando went to the Finals while being under the threshold, THEN went over it.

    And simply making the playoffs doesn't guarantee anything. Without building the right way, you could be a perennial playoff punching bag. Atlanta has no hope of getting to the Championship because their roster is flawed, yet they win lots of games and get to the second round. I'm sure lots of Raptor fans would be happy with that.

    Charlotte is a team that got itself to the playoffs, but are in no position to go beyond that. Their best players are at or beyond their prime. And they were in the luxury tax (until they waived Dampier).

    And while I'd certainly take Bargnani for Carmelo, don't expect to go all that far with him, either. He's not a good defensive player and only got past the first round when Billups joined the team. He's only a little better than Joe Johnson.

    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    I'd take Jefferson and his contract over Bargnani- all day, every day- forever. AJ boards much better than Barg's as well as he posts up in the paint plus he is a basketball player with heart not a person with a heart playing basketball. Not to mention Sloan will hjave AJ playing D or he'll be sitting on the bench too bad Jay has to take orders from his svengali BC instead of making his own moves like Sloan......
    Boozer didn't play defense, either, and he played. Utah is content with simply making the playoffs and competing. It's a shame because I've been a fan of them since the beginning of the Stockton and Malone days.

    And if given the choice, I'd take neither Bargnani or Jefferson. There are two things I would require of any big man. Rebounds and defense.

    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Jay "I liked the effort" Triano is the 1st NBA Canadian head coach- nothing more than a feel good PR story for the TO fans to suck up or spit out while being misled and deceive by BC, Jay & Gherardini......3 blind mice.......3 stooges.......3 the soft way.....

    BC's big picture Raptor vision is str8 up Bull Chit; from 2006-07 Atlantic Division champs (then Boston made the major moves while BC sat on his laurels & now own the Atlantic) to 2010-11 Conference chumps- as is. BC's future is now- I don't know what type of basketball paradigm you're trying to convey but I want a GM & coach who want to compete in every game and let the chips fall where they may instead of planning for a high lottery pick while feeding the fan base an unlimited supply of MLSE marketing propaganda in the form of various PR spins.

    What was BC's luxury tax media hype during Boshs' free agency? Just some bull chit to pacify the fans into thinking that he was really going all out to re-sign CB? If you want a winner in the current NBA a GM will most likely have to go into luxury tax territory until a new CBA is negotiated that how it currently is.
    Sorry, I had trouble reading that through all the bitterness.

  15. #1355
    Raptors Republic Rookie Karl Marx's Avatar
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    Colangelo is worthless too. He needs to be sent packing. Enough of his Eurocentrism. It sure isnt working out for the Raps.

  16. #1356
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    IMO, it's mainly BC blowing smoke up his own ass. it's like the dork who claims to have banged the chick...at camp. she was from...alaska. yeah, that's it....alaska!

    BC: sure, andrea is asked about all the time! by...the LAKERS! yeah, that's it, the lakers! and they've been offering...kobe & bynum! but, uh, the numbers just don't work. yeah, the numbers...damn this stupid CBA! and just last, er, week, orlando called, wanted andrea for howard, straight-up, but i held firm...not without including matt barnes, i said. they tried to sell me on the idea that he wasn't on the magic anymore, but i is too smart to fall for that ploy, so i ended the talks.
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  17. #1357
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    Default Ho Hum

    .
    Another Bargnani thread .... kinda surprised this doesn't have more pages.
    .
    Must be the overdose effect.
    .

  18. #1358
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    Chuck doesn't think before he says anything anymore. It's like monkeys are playing drums in his brain.

  19. #1359
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    Quote jrdyck wrote: View Post
    Did Andrea get a single play run for him yesterday? The Bulls announcers were talking all night about how little he was involved in the offence, and they were right. It was really beginning to frustrate me... seemed like they were restricting what he was able to do on the floor. The only place he got the ball was at the three-point line with a Raptor standing on either side of him. Not one post-up.

    Hopefully it's just a pre-season thing...

    That's exactly what it is...Jay is experimenting with offensive and defensive sets and player rotations. That's what every coach does in the preseason and that is the beauty of playing games that don't mean anything in the record books.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Raúl's Avatar
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    My god! Are you really blamming Bargniani for this? What about Dorsey? He went with West even with the ball in Lasme's hands. This is an ATP, after timeout play, look at robinson leavig to the weak side to clear the way of Lasme, he was ordered to fake the pass to West and wento to the hoop with his defender a step behind. It's a very old and silly play, even I have made that play as a coach sometimes, it's very effective.

    No way Bargs has te fault on this one, he was not late, Dorsey should have put a body on Lasme to try to stop him in order to give time to Bargs to recover. In a straight line, there's no way the defense comes in time

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