View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #7581
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Chisholm via TSN:

    @PHDMAC
    Here's a thought..not one I'm certain about yet. Bargnani for Stoudemire

    I've gotten flooded with trade scenarios for Andrea Bargnani since he's started the season so slowly, so really I'm using this question as a template to answer a lot of others.

    First, the Raptors are not going to assume much risk in a return for Bargnani. After this season, Bargnani has only two seasons left on his deal, with the last being at Bargnani's discretion as he has the right to terminate the final year of his contract. As a result, the Raptors don't feel overburdened by having him around. They aren't desperate to get rid of him, and so a team is not going to be able to dump their trash on Toronto thinking that they club is eager to part with Bargnani.

    Second, anyone they got to replace Bargnani at power forward has to, first and foremost, make sense alongside Valanciunas and DeRozan. That means that they have to land someone who can space the floor with his jump shot, opening up the paint for post-ups and drives. They need a guy who fits the personality that the team is trying to establish, which means effort and hustle are prerequisites. Also, if possible, they should see if they can land a solid passer at the position, too, as the club lacks facilitators and it has shown in the club's difficulties at the offensive end.

    Lastly and most importantly, though, is that the club would need to be taking a step forward with any trade involving Bargnani. While fans can possess the snide attitude that any trade would be better than keeping Bargnani around, that isn't true. He isn't playing well right now, but he isn't dead weight, either. Bargnani still has supporters in the organization even if he isn't a great fit with the direction of the team. They aren't simply going to cut-and-run with him. They don't need a better player in return for Bargnani, just a better fit. They won't get Paul Millsap, but he's a perfect example of what the team needs: hard work, floor spacing and strong defensive fundamentals.


    http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/tim_chisholm/?id=409782
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  2. #7582
    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    I still like Bargnani.... yeesh... he's had a slow start this year but I love how people act like we should just "drop" a 19 ppg guy and expect no detriment to this team. We can barely score as it is, let's get rid of our most naturally talented scorer great.

  3. #7583
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I still like Bargnani.... yeesh... he's had a slow start this year but I love how people act like we should just "drop" a 19 ppg guy and expect no detriment to this team. We can barely score as it is, let's get rid of our most naturally talented scorer great.
    He sucks ass. Anyone can score 20 points if you let them put up 20 shots. At this point DeRozan is a better and more efficient scorer than him and i'd say all of us(except you of course)would agree with that.

  4. #7584
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I still like Bargnani.... yeesh... he's had a slow start this year but I love how people act like we should just "drop" a 19 ppg guy and expect no detriment to this team. We can barely score as it is, let's get rid of our most naturally talented scorer great.
    Have you watched the games? *honest question*

    He is a cancer on the court. Poor offensive decisions. Poor defensive rotations. He is taking inefficiency to a whole new low.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  5. #7585
    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Have you watched the games? *honest question*

    He is a cancer on the court. Poor offensive decisions. Poor defensive rotations. He is taking inefficiency to a whole new low.
    I have watched every game. Start to finish. He has played terribly off the ball, but he has always played terribly off the ball. The only thing different now is his FG%. It's been bad since pre season, but luckily, FG% is a part of the game that has a way of evening itself out. If he's still shooting 35% at the end of the year (he won't be), then I will agree with you. Until that day, Ill tell you Ed Davis has zero offensive instincts at all and he's not an option. Other than Bargnani, only DeRozan, Lowry and Calderon can score a basket on their own (Kleiza sometimes, Ross not consistently there yet). Calderon would rather pass, everytime, Lowry is injury prone and DeRozan is a second option at best. So, as frusturated as you are with Bargnani, give it time, because we need his skill set.

  6. #7586
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I have watched every game. Start to finish. He has played terribly off the ball, but he has always played terribly off the ball. The only thing different now is his FG%. It's been bad since pre season, but luckily, FG% is a part of the game that has a way of evening itself out. If he's still shooting 35% at the end of the year (he won't be), then I will agree with you. Until that day, Ill tell you Ed Davis has zero offensive instincts at all and he's not an option. Other than Bargnani, only DeRozan, Lowry and Calderon can score a basket on their own (Kleiza sometimes, Ross not consistently there yet). Calderon would rather pass, everytime, Lowry is injury prone and DeRozan is a second option at best. So, as frusturated as you are with Bargnani, give it time, because we need his skill set.
    I think we will have to agree to disagree on Bargnani's value.

    Putting up points is a great thing but just about anyone in the NBA can be an inefficient scorer with 15-20 shots per night.

    For all Ed's offensive deficiencies, he has a greater impact on the game than Bargnani with all his offensive 'prowess'.

    There are 2 ways to win: put up more points than the opponent or allow less points than the opponent. Bargnani does not help in the quest for either. What is worse, he doesn't even seem to care. He showed what he is capable of last season for about 16/17 games. The fact he has come nowhere near this, not in terms of his production, but in terms of his obvious effort and passion is beyond discouraging.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  7. #7587
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    It would be nice if Bargs could string a few competent games together so that opposing GM's don't start chuckling when they see Colangelo on caller ID, and answer the phone with "Bryan, Eric and Aaron Williams is as high as I'll go."

  8. #7588
    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think we will have to agree to disagree on Bargnani's value.

    Putting up points is a great thing but just about anyone in the NBA can be an inefficient scorer with 15-20 shots per night.

    For all Ed's offensive deficiencies, he has a greater impact on the game than Bargnani with all his offensive 'prowess'.

    There are 2 ways to win: put up more points than the opponent or allow less points than the opponent. Bargnani does not help in the quest for either. What is worse, he doesn't even seem to care. He showed what he is capable of last season for about 16/17 games. The fact he has come nowhere near this, not in terms of his production, but in terms of his obvious effort and passion is beyond discouraging.
    I think this whole myth of Bargnani caring for 16-17 games then not caring again has gotten out of hand. While his effort has always left something to be desired, I don't think he had a 3 week epiphany last year, he was just playing well. People see him walking around with his blank stare and mouth agape and make this obvious connection.

    And if you are really believing Ed Davis gives us a better chance to win than Bargnani, well, we better sit you down Dwayne Casey because you know more about basketball then he does.

  9. #7589
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I think this whole myth of Bargnani caring for 16-17 games then not caring again has gotten out of hand. While his effort has always left something to be desired, I don't think he had a 3 week epiphany last year, he was just playing well. People see him walking around with his blank stare and mouth agape and make this obvious connection.

    And if you are really believing Ed Davis gives us a better chance to win than Bargnani, well, we better sit you down Dwayne Casey because you know more about basketball then he does.
    I definitely do not know more about basketball than Casey. I have never claimed to and if this is what your platform has become then I guess we are done.

    With that said, you were the one who brought up Ed Davis as a starter. My memory and recollection went back to a few games where ED was a part of the unit bringing the Raptors back in to games only to see it vanish when Bargnani returned to the floor.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  10. #7590
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    After this season, Bargnani has only two seasons left on his deal, with the last being at Bargnani's discretion as he has the right to terminate the final year of his contract
    well thats great! Thats a 3 year contract at 10, 11 and 12 mil. There is a player option on the third year? And how often are those turned down? One in every 10? Thats a 3 year deal. Book it. Thats not a long huge contract, but thats also not a short cheap one. It means 1/6th of Toronto's cap space is sealed up for the next 3 years. Paying someone that kind of money to not produce is a huge burden.

    They aren't desperate to get rid of him
    one of the problems that exist as far as I'm concerned.

    anyone they got to replace Bargnani at power forward has to, first and foremost, make sense alongside Valanciunas and DeRozan. That means that they have to land someone who can space the floor with his jump shot, opening up the paint for post-ups and drives. They need a guy who fits the personality that the team is trying to establish, which means effort and hustle are prerequisites. Also, if possible, they should see if they can land a solid passer at the position, too, as the club lacks facilitators and it has shown in the club's difficulties at the offensive end.
    is that the club would need to be taking a step forward with any trade involving Bargnani
    They won't get Paul Millsap, but he's a perfect example of what the team needs: hard work, floor spacing and strong defensive fundamentals.
    so they'd want offensively diverse PF, with passing and shooting ability, who hustles and defends. Awesome. Thats not setting the bar unrealistically high is it? You know, its not like the rest of the league has any idea of what type of player Bargnani is. They don't follow their competition.


    They don't need a better player in return for Bargnani, just a better fit.
    um, the player doesn't need to be better than Bargnani, just needs to be able to do what Bargnani does and the stuff he doesn't?

    Bargnani still has supporters in the organization even if he isn't a great fit with the direction of the team.
    I think we all know who that is.



    If what Chisolm says is true... we can forget about a trade. They might as well ask for the moon if they are hoping to upgrade Bargnani's position by moving Bargnani. (Not much cap space or first round picks to sweeten the deal)

  11. #7591
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Colangelo said last year that he got many offers for Bargnani, if I remember correctly. It's too bad he didn't sell high. I also wouldn't be surprised if he was just talking out of his ass, he's particularly good at that.
    Colangelo says alot of things. Very few of them turn out to be accurate in the end.

    We also hear Colangelo gets alot of calls about Bargnani every year. Even if it is true, what are those offers? 2nd round pick, Lebron James, Samuel Dalembert, TPE?

    I'd put little stake in what Colangelo says, and even less in what it means.

  12. #7592
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Colangelo says alot of things. Very few of them turn out to be accurate in the end.

    We also hear Colangelo gets alot of calls about Bargnani every year. Even if it is true, what are those offers? 2nd round pick, Lebron James, Samuel Dalembert, TPE?

    I'd put little stake in what Colangelo says, and even less in what it means.
    I know one thing for sure. After Colangelo has taken a shit and gives a pressconference about it, he's going to tell us that he got lots of calls from people around the league, like other gm's, all congratulating him on what he great shit he just took.

  13. #7593
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    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    I think you are giving Matt Devlin way too much credit here. The only influence he has in the organization is what haircare products the white guys get to have in the locker room.
    Haha

  14. #7594
    Raptors Republic Rookie bigmanshaq's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I would kill to have Paul Millsap here. He can stretch the floor with his 3. He plays tough Utah defense. He doesn't shy away from contact.
    +1 to this awesome idea.

    In addition to #tradebargnani, can you guys add on for #GetMillsap?
    He's the Lowry version of a forward, undersized, lots of heart and hustle, just flat out a baller !

  15. #7595
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Only Chisholm would actually suggest trading Bargs for Stoudemire would make sense
    @jerboat

  16. #7596
    Raptors Republic Starter OzRapFan's Avatar
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    Count me in @ozrapsfan

  17. #7597
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Today is a new day! Don't forget your tweet!

    @RaptorsPR @Raptors @MattDevlinRaps
    #tradeBargnani #freeRaptorfans
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  18. #7598
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    done and done

    and i mean done
    @jerboat

  19. #7599
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    Gosh I really hate superlatives like "cancerous" being used in these forums. Can't we at least try to be professional (or at least polite"ish") in our responses. I get it, people are frustrated. News flash, even those of us down East are frustrated. I love th eteam as much as anyone, but recognize that though lazy, AB is probably the most talented player we have (certainly the best scorer).

    While I am not opposed to trading him, it would have to be for at least equal value...I am too tired of us getting fleeced in these transactions!

    Go RAPS!!!

  20. #7600
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Halifax Raps Fan wrote: View Post
    Gosh I really hate superlatives like "cancerous" being used in these forums. Can't we at least try to be professional (or at least polite"ish") in our responses. I get it, people are frustrated. News flash, even those of us down East are frustrated. I love th eteam as much as anyone, but recognize that though lazy, AB is probably the most talented player we have (certainly the best scorer).

    While I am not opposed to trading him, it would have to be for at least equal value...I am too tired of us getting fleeced in these transactions!

    Go RAPS!!!
    What do you believe is equal value? Dirk Nowitzki, or J.R. Smith?
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