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  • Not sure how good of a fit either player would be in Toronto, but I'd go with Gasol. Boozer is a solid player and has been consistent through his career, but Gasol seems to have crumbled under the pressure of playing for the Lakers. I think going somewhere like Toronto where the pressure would be off him could see him return to his days in Memphis.

    I beleive Portland is over the salary cap and starting a youth movement. I wonder if they would be interested in trading LA.

    Comment


    • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
      Not sure how good of a fit either player would be in Toronto, but I'd go with Gasol. Boozer is a solid player and has been consistent through his career, but Gasol seems to have crumbled under the pressure of playing for the Lakers. I think going somewhere like Toronto where the pressure would be off him could see him return to his days in Memphis.

      I beleive Portland is over the salary cap and starting a youth movement. I wonder if they would be interested in trading LA.
      Not sure I agree.

      D'Antoni might have said it best:

      Ramona Shelburne: DAntoni on Pau: "earlier he was hurt..the system was screwed up & we were trying to figure out what we were doing" Twitter @ramonashelburne
      The last five games he is averaging 18 points, 10 rebounds, 6 assists on 59% shooting.

      I think health was a big factor as well. Appears his foot is finally healthy.

      Comment


      • Gasol.

        Compared to Boozer, he's a better defender, can shoot around the perimeter, better footwork and doesnt get stuck in the post.
        Overall, very good passing big man, expiring contract, can defend the rim and already played with Lowry and Gay, so there probably still is good camaraderie there.

        The only concern is the age, but i really dont see him as a long term prospect. Just get the Raps in the playoffs, get the attention of free agents and hopefully get them to sign here.

        One stipulation tho, Raps have to make sure he never ever plays for spain during the summer.

        But again, dont mean to be the devil's advocate but these two will definitely be bandaid solutions for the Raps. If they can get a younger bigman even if it means riding on just potential then id vote for that. Tim and the other tank-backers have convinced me that its time to think of the future. no more stop-gap solutions please.
        Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Thu Apr 11, 2013, 09:37 AM.

        Comment


        • Gasol....better player all around. Shorter contract. More versatile.

          There's no way in which Boozer is actually better than Gasol, except that he should be easier to acquire.

          I see a surprising amount of Boozer fans in this thread...but why?
          -Gasol is a better scorer
          -Gasol is a better passer
          -Gasol is a better defensive presence
          -Gasol is at least as good a rebounder
          -Gasol can line up at both big spots
          -Gasol has won 2 rings to Boozer's none
          -Gasol has a better injury history, or at least not worse (just because Boozer's been healthy recently shouldn't negate that he's had far more issues over his career)
          -Boozer is not "tougher" or "grittier" than Gasol. Just because a guy has a wide body, does not make him a tough player. I don't know what evidence could support such a claim.
          -Finally, a shorter contract is better. Neither player have big odds of being long-term keepers, so the guy who comes off the books first is best so you can move forward with actual team-building (as opposed to bandaid measures). Boozer is a bandaid that is costly since your team gets frozen or 2 years. Gasol is not. One year and he's gone.

          I really don't see any way in which Boozer is better, again, other than him being easier to acquire.
          Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Apr 11, 2013, 09:52 AM.

          Comment


          • Bargnani fits better @ the lakers rather than the Bulls.

            Boozer has been the most consistent offensive tool for the Bulls this season. He has been a double double machine.

            It doesn't make sense to me why I, as the Chicago Bulls, would trade a diverse offensive and defensive tool for an inconsistent half-season player with no salary benefits.

            Lakers do not rely on Pau as a defensive machine. Their defense is garbage w/ Pau, but at least Pau can generate consistent offense, which is what we needed from Bargnani.

            Comment


            • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              Gasol....better player all around. Shorter contract. More versatile.

              There's no way in which Boozer is actually better than Gasol, except that he should be easier to acquire.

              I see a surprising amount of Boozer fans in this thread...but why?
              -Gasol is a better scorer
              -Gasol is a better passer
              -Gasol is a better defensive presence
              -Gasol is at least as good a rebounder
              -Gasol can line up at both big spots
              -Gasol has won 2 rings to Boozer's none
              -Gasol has a better injury history, or at least not worse (just because Boozer's been healthy recently shouldn't negate that he's had far more issues over his career)
              -Boozer is not "tougher" or "grittier" than Gasol. Just because a guy has a wide body, does not make him a tough player. I don't know what evidence could support such a claim.
              -Finally, a shorter contract is better. Neither player have big odds of being long-term keepers, so the guy who comes off the books first is best so you can move forward with actual team-building (as opposed to bandaid measures). Boozer is a bandaid that is costly since your team gets frozen or 2 years. Gasol is not. One year and he's gone.

              I really don't see any way in which Boozer is better, again, other than him being easier to acquire.
              Boozer is a year younger. I don't see Pau being attainable if Lakers make the playoffs. It seem like him and Dwight are finally starting to learn to play with each other at least offensively.
              @Chr1st1anL

              Comment


              • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                Gasol....better player all around. Shorter contract. More versatile.

                There's no way in which Boozer is actually better than Gasol, except that he should be easier to acquire.

                I see a surprising amount of Boozer fans in this thread...but why?
                -Gasol is a better scorer
                -Gasol is a better passer
                -Gasol is a better defensive presence
                -Gasol is at least as good a rebounder
                -Gasol can line up at both big spots
                -Gasol has won 2 rings to Boozer's none
                -Gasol has a better injury history, or at least not worse (just because Boozer's been healthy recently shouldn't negate that he's had far more issues over his career)
                -Boozer is not "tougher" or "grittier" than Gasol. Just because a guy has a wide body, does not make him a tough player. I don't know what evidence could support such a claim..
                Im sorry White men but a lot of these points are negated..... Pau Gasol regulary gets dunked on is very slow awful defender and so is Boozer Gasol may be a tad better simply because he is taller. Ya Gasol has 2 rings playing beside Kobe Bryant and Bynum in LAL will do that Luke Walton also has a ring lets go get him seriously that doesnt matter.... Boozer is a better player. Gasol is listed as one of the softest players in the league right there beside Bargnani injured every 10 games or so. Gasol is a good rebounder yes he is you saying Boozer isnt? Gasol is only a better scorer because over the years hes playing beside Kobe who draws so much attention, mainly putbacks Boozer is a #2 option behind Rose on the bulls and plays through tons of attention from defenders has a varied skillset. Gasol flops like no other big in the league Boozer doesnt Gasol gets away with it simply because he plays in LAL.

                Gasol is not a better player than Boozer..

                Comment




                • The Raptors are trying to get better and stronger not..... Soft. Kobe Bryant calls him soft, Phil Jackson calls him soft everyone he has ever played with has called him a soft guy I dont want JV anywhere near Gasol.
                  Last edited by Rapstor4Life; Thu Apr 11, 2013, 01:33 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                    Boozer is a year younger. I don't see Pau being attainable if Lakers make the playoffs. It seem like him and Dwight are finally starting to learn to play with each other at least offensively.
                    Does that make him better? No. It doesn't even make him more reliable, given their respective injury histories. He is definitely more attainable, and I said that's basically his only advantage.

                    That said, I still think there's a fairly good chance Pau is traded this summer. Their luxury tax bill with all 4 future HOFers on their team will be absolutely insane, even for a deep pocket team. And they will struggle greatly to add quality pieces as well, because of that situation (like they did this year...they have dreadful depth and can't go through another year like that). If they can turn Pau into 2-3 players that can slide into their system, and cut even 2-3 million, that could be very attractive to them.

                    Comment


                    • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                      Gasol....better player all around. Shorter contract. More versatile.

                      There's no way in which Boozer is actually better than Gasol, except that he should be easier to acquire.

                      I see a surprising amount of Boozer fans in this thread...but why?
                      -Gasol is a better scorer
                      -Gasol is a better passer
                      -Gasol is a better defensive presence
                      -Gasol is at least as good a rebounder
                      -Gasol can line up at both big spots
                      -Gasol has won 2 rings to Boozer's none
                      -Gasol has a better injury history, or at least not worse (just because Boozer's been healthy recently shouldn't negate that he's had far more issues over his career)
                      -Boozer is not "tougher" or "grittier" than Gasol. Just because a guy has a wide body, does not make him a tough player. I don't know what evidence could support such a claim.
                      -Finally, a shorter contract is better. Neither player have big odds of being long-term keepers, so the guy who comes off the books first is best so you can move forward with actual team-building (as opposed to bandaid measures). Boozer is a bandaid that is costly since your team gets frozen or 2 years. Gasol is not. One year and he's gone.

                      I really don't see any way in which Boozer is better, again, other than him being easier to acquire.
                      #1 reason for Boozer over Gasol is who would need to be sent out to acquire each.

                      To acquire Boozer will only take Bargs, and we might even be able to get them to send us a pick too.

                      To acquire Gasol, we'd have to send Bargs + DD (or Ross), which is way too much for a one year rental of a guy coming off an injury plagued season.

                      #2 Reason for Boozer over Gasol
                      The current Raps team with either guy at PF is probably going to result in roughly the same amount of wins, playoff position, and playoff exit time. Gasol may equal 1-4 more wins, if he stays healthy all year, than Boozer would. His extra value isn't enough to overcome the fact we'd have to include DD or Ross.

                      #3 Reason for Boozer over Gasol
                      Boozer's contract lines up with our huge cap clear in 2015. If we're being realistic, that is when the Raps will finally have cap space. There is no way in hell they're moving Gay for a huge 1 year contract similar to Gasol's to free up the cap space a year earlier, so once again another Gasol advantage goes by the wayside. We'd still have no cap room in 2014 as long as Gay is still here, and if you're being realistic then you know there's a 99.999% chance he will be. Even if we got a new GM, he's not going to make his first move shipping out our best player for pennies on the $.

                      #4 Reason for Boozer over Gasol
                      It's a culmination of the above points. We get a playoff team for 2 seasons (5-8 seed), then we have a huge cap clear in 2015 when Jonas, Ross, and DD are the only guys under contract and ready to take over. We could spend to bring in whatever big FA are available, and hopefully have a more championship caliber squad in 2015.

                      Gasol is the better player, but his contract, what it would take to get him, and the difference in wins vs Boozer instead is not enough to pick Gasol over Boozer.

                      Comment


                      • Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                        Im sorry White men but a lot of these points are negated..... Pau Gasol regulary gets dunked on is very slow awful defender and so is Boozer Gasol may be a tad better simply because he is taller. Ya Gasol has 2 rings playing beside Kobe Bryant and Bynum in LAL will do that Luke Walton also has a ring lets go get him seriously that doesnt matter.... Boozer is a better player. Gasol is listed as one of the softest players in the league right there beside Bargnani injured every 10 games or so. Gasol is a good rebounder yes he is you saying Boozer isnt? Gasol is only a better scorer because over the years hes playing beside Kobe who draws so much attention, mainly putbacks Boozer is a #2 option behind Rose on the bulls and plays through tons of attention from defenders has a varied skillset. Gasol flops like no other big in the league Boozer doesnt Gasol gets away with it simply because he plays in LAL.

                        Gasol is not a better player than Boozer..
                        -One, Pau is not that soft. He gets a bad rep for plaing in a market with lots and lots of attention.
                        Pau has played in 80+ games 4 times....Boozer 2 times. This will be the first season Pau has played less than 50 games (which Boozer has done twice). Pau has played in roughly 87% possible career games, Boozer in 80%. Define how Boozer is less soft.

                        -Two, Pau has been the 2nd best player on a championship team twice, and the best player on a FIBA gold, and 2 Olympic silver medal wins. Boozer has been the 2nd best player on 3 teams that haven't won championships, with LeBron early on in Cleveland (acceptable given their youth), with D-Will in Utah (declining success after first season together), and now with D-Rose in Chicago (where injuries have been an issue having them both at the same time, but doesn't that come back to "softness" if you think it has to do with missing games?). I don't know how it's a negative that Pau was playing 2nd fiddle to Kobe Bryant, easily the best wing of his generation and arguably best player (with Tim Duncan). That's like saying Manu and Parker are bad players because they played with Duncan. That's a messed up argument

                        -Third and coming back to softness, lists are stupid and subjective, especially when they come from random journalists/bloggers. I can't consider a guy soft if he is able to perform at the highest level of competition, both in the NBA and in FIBA related competitions. Does he flop? Yes, maybe more than some guys. Does he whine and complain comically? Yes. Does he make stupid plays because of his softness? No. He still rebounds, scores, protects the basket, makes solid passes and generally impacts all areas of the game. Softness is about how you play, not hwo you look. He won his rings going up against Perkins-KG twice (winning once), and Howard (winning once), and being effective in both wins. That is not soft. Soft is when you disappear because of physicality/pressure, and this has never really been an issue for Pau.

                        *there are lots of tough players who flop. Reggie Evans, CP3, Anderson Varejao, Manu....flopping is not the same as softness

                        Comment


                        • Primer wrote: View Post
                          #1 reason for Boozer over Gasol is who would need to be sent out to acquire each.

                          To acquire Boozer will only take Bargs, and we might even be able to get them to send us a pick too.

                          To acquire Gasol, we'd have to send Bargs + DD (or Ross), which is way too much for a one year rental of a guy coming off an injury plagued season.

                          #2 Reason for Boozer over Gasol
                          The current Raps team with either guy at PF is probably going to result in roughly the same amount of wins, playoff position, and playoff exit time. Gasol may equal 1-4 more wins, if he stays healthy all year, than Boozer would. His extra value isn't enough to overcome the fact we'd have to include DD or Ross.

                          #3 Reason for Boozer over Gasol
                          Boozer's contract lines up with our huge cap clear in 2015. If we're being realistic, that is when the Raps will finally have cap space. There is no way in hell they're moving Gay for a huge 1 year contract similar to Gasol's to free up the cap space a year earlier, so once again another Gasol advantage goes by the wayside. We'd still have no cap room in 2014 as long as Gay is still here, and if you're being realistic then you know there's a 99.999% chance he will be. Even if we got a new GM, he's not going to make his first move shipping out our best player for pennies on the $.

                          #4 Reason for Boozer over Gasol
                          It's a culmination of the above points. We get a playoff team for 2 seasons (5-8 seed), then we have a huge cap clear in 2015 when Jonas, Ross, and DD are the only guys under contract and ready to take over. We could spend to bring in whatever big FA are available, and hopefully have a more championship caliber squad in 2015.

                          Gasol is the better player, but his contract, what it would take to get him, and the difference in wins vs Boozer instead is not enough to pick Gasol over Boozer.
                          One last point I forgot to make is that the 2015 FA class is exponentially better for the Raps than the 2014 FA class. Unless we think we can sign Kobe or Dirk, who the hell is the target in 2014? The next tier in 2014 is Deng, Granger, Bogut, Gortat, then a huge drop to Humphries, then basically no one. I'm not counting RFA as realistic since in this new CBA they really aren't. How many RFA changed teams this past season without a trade involved? I think none, but I could be wrong.

                          In 2015 you have much more realistic Raps options like ZBo, Aldridge, Marc Gasol, Asik, Rondo, Lin, Nash, Lou Williams, Danny Green, Marcus Thornton, Wesley Matthews, Prince, Gerald Green, Scola, Chandler, Melo, Amare, Gay (discount?), Frye, and a few others on a sliding scale of talent.

                          We can't just say "cap space = good" without knowing what is available that year with cap. Cap space in 2014 is rather useless to most teams unless you think you can convince one of the big 3 to jump ship, which isn't going to happen.

                          Comment


                          • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                            If you had your choice for this current team. Who would you pick?


                            Marc J Spears: Bargnani is gone. I do not see him going back to Toronto unless he's a visitor. Keep an eye on teams like Chicago Bulls. That would be a team that could be interested in him. Yahoo! Sports
                            TORONTO RAPTORS, TRADE, ANDREA BARGNANI | SHARE
                            Boozer for AB then amnesty kleiza might work.

                            Marc J Spears: Bargnani is gone. I do not see him going back to Toronto unless he's a visitor. Keep an eye on teams like Chicago Bulls. That would be a team that could be interested in him. Yahoo! Sports
                            TORONTO RAPTORS, TRADE, ANDREA BARGNANI | SHARE
                            Boozer for AB then amnesty Kleiza

                            Comment


                            • Primer wrote: View Post
                              #1 reason for Boozer over Gasol is who would need to be sent out to acquire each.

                              To acquire Boozer will only take Bargs, and we might even be able to get them to send us a pick too.

                              To acquire Gasol, we'd have to send Bargs + DD (or Ross), which is way too much for a one year rental of a guy coming off an injury plagued season.

                              #2 Reason for Boozer over Gasol
                              The current Raps team with either guy at PF is probably going to result in roughly the same amount of wins, playoff position, and playoff exit time. Gasol may equal 1-4 more wins, if he stays healthy all year, than Boozer would. His extra value isn't enough to overcome the fact we'd have to include DD or Ross.

                              #3 Reason for Boozer over Gasol
                              Boozer's contract lines up with our huge cap clear in 2015. If we're being realistic, that is when the Raps will finally have cap space. There is no way in hell they're moving Gay for a huge 1 year contract similar to Gasol's to free up the cap space a year earlier, so once again another Gasol advantage goes by the wayside. We'd still have no cap room in 2014 as long as Gay is still here, and if you're being realistic then you know there's a 99.999% chance he will be. Even if we got a new GM, he's not going to make his first move shipping out our best player for pennies on the $.

                              #4 Reason for Boozer over Gasol
                              It's a culmination of the above points. We get a playoff team for 2 seasons (5-8 seed), then we have a huge cap clear in 2015 when Jonas, Ross, and DD are the only guys under contract and ready to take over. We could spend to bring in whatever big FA are available, and hopefully have a more championship caliber squad in 2015.

                              Gasol is the better player, but his contract, what it would take to get him, and the difference in wins vs Boozer instead is not enough to pick Gasol over Boozer.
                              First off, I agreed that Boozer would be easier to acquire, but I took this thread to focus more on who you'd prefer.

                              Second, you can't just statistically predict wins. You can't say either guy theoretically adds the same amount of wins if they're slotted at PF. Gasol brings better skills. Getting a better player, talent and skill wise, who also fits the needs of a post presence even more (better scorer and passer, IMO), should work out better, if you ask me.

                              Third, on the contract, there's way too much up in the air to suggest that 2015 will stay a summer of flexibility. Right now, the Raptors have really big depth/talent issues up front, serious questions about the PG spot, redundancy at the wings, and just generally need more talent (even if a fair amount comes from internal growth). They cannot pass up opportunities to improve their team, so there may very well be deals happening to address different issues, either this summer or during the season. At the very least we have to see what options are out there for Bargs to have any sense of the future financial outlook. And getting Pau does not, strictly speaking, sacrifice any flexibility for 2015, especially if the extra player is someone like Fields (another awful contract). You can easily just sign stopgap players to fill holes for a season, especially when you're talking about backup bigs and wings.

                              The only real issue with Pau will come down to what it takes to get a deal done. Like I said, I wouldn't trade Demar (who I'd only trade for a long-term piece, and ideally in a package to truly upgrade talent), and that means that they'd basically have to want Landry Fields....and that's a pretty tough pill for them to swallow with Bargs. That said, I'm also not sure what the market will be like for Pau this summer, as teams should not want to add his money any more than they should want to add Boozer's or Bargnani's.
                              Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Apr 11, 2013, 02:37 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Primer wrote: View Post
                                One last point I forgot to make is that the 2015 FA class is exponentially better for the Raps than the 2014 FA class. Unless we think we can sign Kobe or Dirk, who the hell is the target in 2014? The next tier in 2014 is Deng, Granger, Bogut, Gortat, then a huge drop to Humphries, then basically no one. I'm not counting RFA as realistic since in this new CBA they really aren't. How many RFA changed teams this past season without a trade involved? I think none, but I could be wrong.

                                In 2015 you have much more realistic Raps options like ZBo, Aldridge, Marc Gasol, Asik, Rondo, Lin, Nash, Lou Williams, Danny Green, Marcus Thornton, Wesley Matthews, Prince, Gerald Green, Scola, Chandler, Melo, Amare, Gay (discount?), Frye, and a few others on a sliding scale of talent.

                                We can't just say "cap space = good" without knowing what is available that year with cap. Cap space in 2014 is rather useless to most teams unless you think you can convince one of the big 3 to jump ship, which isn't going to happen.
                                Oh, and also, my general opinion is that capspace is overrated. Most often you overpay for a player and then just pray that they will be close to value. So I'm always in favor of moving bad contracts for better ones. Bargs' contract is worse than Gasol's because of length and untradeability of player. Boozer's contract is worse than Gasol's as well. I am for moves that remove bad contracts as fast as possible, regardless of implications on signings.

                                I firmly believe the 2 easiest ways to acquire high-calibre talent is through smart drafting and trading. So IMO, I don't care about 2015 capspace...I just want to cut the deadweight (and associated money) ASAP. Cutting pay isn't just about capspace, but about getting farther from the luxury tax, which also gives ownership more comfort when absorbing more money again. In that sense, Gasol is also a better move, if other deals the team likes become available. I know I shouldn't care about money, but the owners clearly do.
                                Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Apr 11, 2013, 02:29 PM.

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