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  • Trife76 wrote: View Post
    Outside of THIS city nobody talked about him....
    When have I heard this before? Oh right...all the time. Just because the American media ignores Toronto doesn't diminish the fact that Calderon WAS a top 10 PG in his prime.

    Comment


    • MangoKid wrote: View Post
      So, considering he was top 5 in assists per game and total assists as well in addition to being top-3 in overall offensive ratings - and he wasn't considered a top-10 point guard?
      Right........
      Dont quote a bunch of irrelevant stats,tell me who considered him top 10 in the know....I could pull up video of people in the know laughing at the suggestion he was one of the top guards in the NBA...

      Reggie Evans is top 5 in the league in rebounds right now are we going to say he's a top 5 PF ? See how that fails ?

      Comment


      • DAGman27 wrote: View Post
        When have I heard this before? Oh right...all the time. Just because the American media ignores Toronto doesn't diminish the fact that Calderon WAS a top 10 PG in his prime.
        So his prime was ONE season then ?
        and nothing diminishes calderon anymore than the fact he was overrated to begin with and Raps fans and mgmt drank the kool aid...evidence is 2010-2011 and not being able to keep a starting job...

        Calderon at best was a top 15-20 PG in this league....absolutely nobody who knows basketball placed him higher than that,clearly you could see he didnt have top PG skills to be in that category...

        Comment


        • ihatehaters wrote: View Post
          Woah. You really get that worked up defending Bargs? Dude - get a f'in life!
          You R a hater
          I heard you even hate Toronto
          ihatehatersjisssssummm

          Comment


          • Trife76 wrote: View Post
            Dont quote a bunch of irrelevant stats,tell me who considered him top 10 in the know....I could pull up video of people in the know laughing at the suggestion he was one of the top guards in the NBA...

            Reggie Evans is top 5 in the league in rebounds right now are we going to say he's a top 5 PF ? See how that fails ?
            Why can't you deal with the stats? It's not too hard to digest. It's pretty simple, really.

            07-08:
            Played in all 82 games
            5th in assists
            5th in assists per game
            10th in effective field goal percentage
            5th in assist percentage
            2nd in offensive rating
            10th in offensive win shares

            In 08-09
            1st in Free Throw percentage
            6th in assists
            4th in assists per game
            9th in true shooting percentage
            10th in effective shooting percentage
            4th in assist percentage
            3rd in offensive rating

            Your logic regarding Evans in flawed because he's only done what he's done for 4-5 games while Calderon had done what he did over 2 seasons.

            And please do show me the video, I'd like to see it.

            Comment


            • Trife, there were MVP chants for Jose. Jose was a top 10 PG at least. Now he's lost it, but I remember when we though Calderon was going to carry our franchise. He was one of the best passers, and has one of the best assist-to-turnover ratios in the league. Which lead to his ridiculous contract which was not consider so outrageous at the time.

              Comment


              • teoserio wrote: View Post
                and with derozan as the go-to-guy?
                no go-to-guy just run the sets, take the open shots and play defense.

                Comment


                • Tim, you've made 3 gem posts in this thread. They are so accurate about Bargnani that I think it's worth a sticky. I'm serious. I think I'll cut and paste them and frame them in my office. You've summed up what I've been thinking about Bargnani for the past 4 years. Thank you.
                  your pal,
                  ebrian

                  Comment


                  • Brandon wrote: View Post
                    Alright, every team in every sport should either be moving up or moving down. BC signed a number of vet players to try to compensate for Bosh's loss. It's clear that Colangelo wants to be moving up. If you trade your team's only offensive threat, you are moving down. Is that what you want?

                    The current numbers suggest, much like Bosh last season, that the only good and positive thing about this ball club right now is Bargnani. His ORTG-DRTG is +10, meaning the Raptors are winning when he's on the floor. Raptors getting significant time right now who have a negative in the aforementioned category: Kleiza, Calderon, Jack, Barbosa. In other words, the players getting the most time on the perimeter are hurting the team by their lack of production. Weems is about even after last night, and DeRozan is +13. Raptors getting significant playing time who have negative win shares: Jack, Calderon, Barbosa.
                    This team needs to finally do something about the disastrous wing players and point guards. Jose Calderon has fallen off a cliff. He's gone from top 10, to average, to now barely good enough to justify being in the league.
                    What Colangelo wants to do and what he needs to do might not be the same thing. And Bargnani is certainly the Raptors best offensive player, at the moment, is that a reason to ignore the fact that he's probably never going to be able to be able to start on a contender because of his fatal flaws?

                    And while the Raptors offense will obviously suffer with him gone, the defense will improve. I mean, one of the reasons they have to score so much right now is because they let the other team score so much.

                    The team will probably not win 30 games this season. Trading Bargnani for a more well rounded player certainly isn't going to affect the win total much right now, but it will in the future.

                    And I really wouldn't say that Bargnani is the only good and positive thing for the Raptors, right now. He and DeRozan's advanced stats are pretty similar, but DeRozan isn't a liability in certain areas like Bargnani is.
                    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                    Follow me on Twitter.

                    Comment


                    • JoePanini wrote: View Post
                      Trife, there were MVP chants for Jose. Jose was a top 10 PG at least. Now he's lost it, but I remember when we though Calderon was going to carry our franchise. He was one of the best passers, and has one of the best assist-to-turnover ratios in the league. Which lead to his ridiculous contract which was not consider so outrageous at the time.
                      and ? there were MVP chants for Bosh too and ? All that speaks too is the dumbness on the local fans here...anybody that thought Calderon was carrying a franchise honestly doesnt need to be following basketball...and again for the millionth time ast-to ratio is meaningless dude....All the top ball handlers in the L turn the ball over..OK Steve Nash won mvps leading the league in TOs it means nothing....

                      Comment


                      • MangoKid wrote: View Post
                        Why can't you deal with the stats? It's not too hard to digest. It's pretty simple, really.

                        07-08:
                        Played in all 82 games
                        5th in assists
                        5th in assists per game
                        10th in effective field goal percentage
                        5th in assist percentage
                        2nd in offensive rating
                        10th in offensive win shares

                        In 08-09
                        1st in Free Throw percentage
                        6th in assists
                        4th in assists per game
                        9th in true shooting percentage
                        10th in effective shooting percentage
                        4th in assist percentage
                        3rd in offensive rating

                        Your logic regarding Evans in flawed because he's only done what he's done for 4-5 games while Calderon had done what he did over 2 seasons.

                        And please do show me the video, I'd like to see it.
                        WTF

                        lol @ assist percentage and off win shares....hahahahahahahaah !

                        This is officially DONE now,ur quoting BS stats pulled out ur ass/matrix

                        Nobody cares about fruity stats assist pct.....clearly you just laid out why you cannot prove he was top 10 if you need to use obscure stats nobody uses or cares about...

                        DEAD

                        Comment


                        • Trife76 wrote: View Post
                          and ? there were MVP chants for Bosh too and ? All that speaks too is the dumbness on the local fans here...anybody that thought Calderon was carrying a franchise honestly doesnt need to be following basketball...and again for the millionth time ast-to ratio is meaningless dude....All the top ball handlers in the L turn the ball over..OK Steve Nash won mvps leading the league in TOs it means nothing....
                          Everything in your opinion means nothing. How are turnovers meaningless? In last nights game alone one turnover played a huge part. PGs who don't turn the ball over are considered good, especially if the do so playing big minutes like Calderon did. And I didn't say he was MVP caliber, I said we chanted it meaning he was good. And Bosh is a top 10 PF.

                          Comment


                          • JoePanini wrote: View Post
                            Everything in your opinion means nothing. How are turnovers meaningless? In last nights game alone one turnover played a huge part. PGs who don't turn the ball over are considered good, especially if the do so playing big minutes like Calderon did. And I didn't say he was MVP caliber, I said we chanted it meaning he was good. And Bosh is a top 10 PF.
                            One turnover means nothing...To/ast ratio means nothing if u dont get that i cant help you man...all the leading PG's turn the ball over,if you play 35-40 mins your going to turn the ball over in this league as a ball handler....its not how you gage a starting PG's success or productivity...its like using stats per 48...to gage a backup players production,its worthless.

                            Calderon didnt turn the ball over but he did NOTHING offensively which is not what you need from your PG either......You see what Deron did ? CP3 ? Rondo ? Those are top 10 elite PGs who control a game sometimes even without scoring.....i can see a difference between what they bring and what Calderon doesnt....So again PGs who limit turnovers are good but TOs are going to happen as long as you bring other things to the table it doesnt matter that much as long as the TOs are limited...in Jose's case not alot else is brought to the table.....

                            Comment


                            • Werd Tim sometimes says what im trying to say but without being long winded about it lol...and to piggyback on his last comment about blaming players in the NBA in losses its alot easier than other sports because altho basketball is a team game,wins and losses in the NBA happen on the backs of individual players alot more than Football or other team games....

                              One individual player in basketball can dominate a game and have more of an effect on a win or loss quite a bit more...which is way you read in the NBA alot more about championships and winning seasons attributed to individual players success...

                              In football a QB doesnt play defense,in baseball you need hitting and pitching but in basketball with alot less players having more impact on both ends its a fair argument to relate players performance much more directly on the games outcome...

                              Comment


                              • theshareef wrote: View Post
                                So where are the freeze frames of 'Drea denying Cousins twice? How come we aren't looking at how he was forcing Cousins into taking a couple bad shots in the post, or using shot fakes to get him into foul trouble? What happened to Cousins' borderline pathetic defense on Bargnani out on the perimeter (so terrible they had to bring in Dalembert and let Cousin's take a breather ie. guard Reggie)? Is it because, ultimately, the Raps lost? (...because Casspi got ridiculously hot)

                                Was he terrible on these two plays? Oh God yes, these breakdowns on the defensive end are what make him so frustrating and actually make me dislike him overall as a player. Does he deserve a one-sided attack that doesn't take into consideration all the good things he did in the game - especially after a decent performance on the defensive end? I don't think so. This would have been so much more poignant after any number of games last year when he actually deserved heavy criticism - after the Monday night though it just seems petty.
                                Those freeze frames dont exiost because Boogie is a rookie and Andrea is in his 5th season in the league he should be taking advantage of him NOT the other way around...

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