Everything Bargnani

[Tim W.]

Bargnani is ranked 16th in scoring with a .468 FG%.

14th - Deron Williams, .463 FG%
13th - Russell Westbrook, .435 FG%
11th - Carmelo Anthony, .433 FG%
10th - Kevin Martin, .452 FG%
8th - Eric Gordon, .467 FG%
7th Derrick Rose, .453 FG%
5th - Kobe Bryant, .454 FG%
3rd - Monta Ellis, .471 FG%
1st - Kevin Durant, .471 FG%

Again, I never said he shot a poor percentage. There's a difference between percentage and efficiency. Russell Westbrook shoots a much lower percentage, but because he gets to the line at a much higher rate, it doesn't matter.

Actually if you look from 16-30 there are a lot of guys who look similar to him when looking at FGA compared with FTA. I'm not working out the percentages but if you look at the link below we're talking peanuts in difference.

LINK

There are a few guys who score a similar amount on a similar amount of shots, but they, like Bargnani, are scoring more than they should because there are a lack of scoring options on the team. Danny Granger is a good player, but on a better team, he shouldn't be taking 17 shots per game. Same with LaMarcus Aldridge, who is only taking the number of shots he is because Roy is out.

One could argue that on a really good team he could score even more because he wouldn't draw so much heat on offense and his defensive inadequacies could be shielded by the talent around him. You throw Bargnani in next to Dwight Howard or Joakim Noah or Josh & Al and I'm sure you'd be amazed at his sudden defensive "transformation".

You could argue anything you want, but some arguments hold water and others don't. Bargnani's deficiencies would obviously be less obvious next to one of the best defensive big men in the game in the last ten years, or so, but his defense isn't going to suddenly improve. In the playoffs, it's still going to be a point of focus with opposing teams and still going to make it incredibly difficult for his team to get deeper if he's playing a big role. The notion that Bargnani only appears to be as bad a defender as he is because his teammates aren't good defensively doesn't make sense when you consider that no one is claiming Amir Johnson is a bad defender. Or Ed Davis.

[Multipaul]

At 21, with a season and a half of NBA experience, and drafted as a project to begin with, DD is still very much figuring out how to play.

Does having an athletic build guarantee he will become a great defender? Absolutely not - but it won't hurt his chances.

If he doesn't learn the game and play smarter, his athleticism will not do anything for him. But again an athletic, stunned basketball player is still better than an unathletic, stunned basketball player.

Being muscular doesn't hurt, that's for sure. Hopefully PJ buys them all P90X's this summer and they can get buffed up lol.

[WhatWhat]

Also of the list in my original post, Bargs is 26th of 39 with 4.9 FTA per game.

I still don't get why people are still giving Bargs such a big pass on the defensive end, especially when he's shown that he more than capable of playing at a passable level on that end. He's not being the centrepiece, but is by all accounts going to have a big role on the team, and for the team to be successful, he's going to have to improve on defense. Not getting this monstrous defensive center to cover up for him, or playing him at the 4. Playing him at the 4 will only weaken his offensive advantages (unless he develops a love for his post game), and will have him get destroyed on the perimeter, rather than out-hustled.

It's not even that he's a bad defender, it's that he looks like he not even trying out there at times on that end...and if he was trying, he wouldn't be so bad, because he definitely has to tools to be a positive on that end.

I just read an article where MANY league scouts were stating that Carmelo is a One-Dimensional player...
Wonder what they think of Bargs...

Probably that he is also a one-dimensional scorer.

As is, if Bargs remains with us for his whole contract, and possibly beyond, he is, and will continue to be the greatest offensive player ever on the Raptors.

Bargs might be one of the worst defensive players we've ever had though.

DD's defense has cost us many games. It is worse than Bargs. How can you say "there is still hope for DD" on defense? Where does this hope come from?

Bargnani being a better defender than DD is completely asinine. There's still hope for him because he's only halfway through his 2nd year and far, far more effort on that end than Bargnani, with a good work ethic along to boot. I'm not saying that he's a good defender (not AT ALL), but he's a better defender than Bargs, and will most likely be much better than him in on the end sooner than later. He was drafted as a project, and looking at how Bargs was doing in his 2nd year (on both ends), it's crazy to say that there's no hope for him.

[Tim W.]

He might not be the main man but the guy would average over 30 minutes for every team in the league if you subtracted a current rotational player.

I completely disagree. On bad teams, or borderline playoff teams, possibly, but the good teams simply don't need his scoring at the expense of defense. San Antonio, Boston, the Lakers, Dallas, Chicago and Oklahoma all have enough scoring. Unless you take away an All-Star from them, in which case they no longer become a contender, there's no way Bargnani gets 30 mpg on one of those team.

San Antonio has four guys on the team that can score 20 or more on any given night. Even if you take away one of them, they still have plenty of scoring (without sacrificing defense). You think Popovich is going to put up with bad defense and low effort because a guy can score 20 ppg? Not in a million years. A coach like Popovich is going to make him a situational sub and if he's not giving full effort, yank him back to the bench.

Boston's success is predicated on great team defense, something Bargnani obviously doesn't do well. Like San Antonio, they have plenty of scoring, so sacrificing defense for Bargnani's scoring doesn't make much sense. If they trade Kendrick Perkins for Bargnani, you think he gets 30 mpg on a team with Shaq, Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal and Glen Davis, all of whom are much better defenders than Bargnani, and better rebounders. Hell, if you trade Perkins AND one of the O'Neals, it's still doubtful Bargnani would average 20 mpg on this team let along 30.

If you think a player who is a poor defender (to put it mildly) and brings nothing other than scoring, on a team with Kobe Bryant and coached by Phil Jackson, is going to get 30 mpg, you need to follow them a bit more closely. And like SA and Boston, the Lakers have plenty of scoring, even if you take a rotational player away.

On CHicago, Carlos Boozer, who scores about the same as Bargnani, rebounds much more and while he's not a good defender, is much better than Bargnani, plays only 32 mpg mostly because Thibideau sits him because of his lack of defense. And Chicago doesn't have a whole lot of scoring options, but they still sit Boozer a lot because he's not a good defender. And like I said, he's a better defender than Bargnani is, and gives them rebounding, too.

I could continue, but I think you get the point. The problem with Bargnani is he doesn't have very good role playing skills. He does one thing well and that's score, but on a good team, scoring is not valued as much because there are usually other players that can do that. Since he doesn't play defense or rebound, he doesn't bring the skills that rotational players need to have on good teams. What role does he play on a contender? He's not good enough to be one of the star players, and he doesn't do anything other than score, so there would simply be no reason to play him a lot of minutes.

[Tim W.]

An interesting note, Bargnani is 16th in the NBA in points per 48 minutes, but 5th in shots attempted per 48 minutes. So he needs more shots than most players to score the amount that he does.

[ibzilla]

Being muscular doesn't hurt, that's for sure. Hopefully PJ buys them all P90X's this summer and they can get buffed up lol.

Build isn't that important in terms of playing good defense. Some of the best defensive players weren't that athletic (ie Raja Bell). What's more important is playing the angles correctly. learning opponent's tenencies and learn to anticipate rather than react. But unfortunately he'll probably never be a good defensive player as long as the environment doesn't change. The Raptors used to be a defensive first team in the Vince Carter days but with the change at the top (Colangelo), defense isn't preached anymore. Players know what's important to the team and system and Toronto wants a run-and-gun offense with less attention to D and more points. Look at other organizations; the worst team in the league, Cleveland implemented a "no D, no playing time" policy and other than Phoenix and Toronto this is the leaguewide standard. It's human nature, if your boss stresses one aspect of your work is more important, you focus on that aspect more intently. Raptor players respond to what's required and work on their offensive game in the offseason with little improvment to their defense. Bargnani's defensive game has not improved in 5 years and Bosh was a below average defender. Half a season in his new team his defense is better than his Raptor career combined because Pat Riley/Spoelstra demands defense first attitude. The environment in Toronto needs to change and that starts at the top.

[UwanSUMhotFYUH]

An interesting note, Bargnani is 16th in the NBA in points per 48 minutes, but 5th in shots attempted per 48 minutes. So he needs more shots than most players to score the amount that he does.

Tim, you make a lot of really convincing points.

questions i have for you are:

if you took away bargnani's minutes or reduced them to that of a player off the bench

and

you limited the amount of shots he was allowed to take,

would you then say that he is grossly over paid ?

which is why it is harder to trade him ?

also, what will it take before the fans start realizing that he is just a 7 foot version of jamal crawford ?

what will it take to the raps to move on from bargnani like they did mike james ?

[Tim W.]

Tim, you make a lot of really convincing points.

questions i have for you are:

if you took away bargnani's minutes or reduced them to that of a player off the bench

and

you limited the amount of shots he was allowed to take,

would you then say that he is grossly over paid ?

which is why it is harder to trade him ?

also, what will it take before the fans start realizing that he is just a 7 foot version of jamal crawford ?

what will it take to the raps to move on from bargnani like they did mike james ?

I have absolutely no idea whether it would be difficult to trade Bargnani now or not. I'm guessing the biggest stumbling block right now would be his BYC status.

As for whether he's overpaid, if he played a lot less, obviously he would be overpaid, but for the production that the Raptors are getting from him right now, he's not at all. I've always hated the argument about whether one player with this contract is better than this one at another. To me, I don't really care how money a player is making, just whether I want him on my team or not. Obviously, having too many players who are overpaid is going to make things more difficult for your GM, but in the end, a player is either one you want or not. It's why I didn't have a problem at all with Amir's contract, even before it came out it was for less than reported. Why? Because he's the type of player I want on my team. He does the things that help you win.

I've never quibbled with Bargnani's contract, but it's not the amount he's getting paid. I don't want him on my team no matter what he's being paid because he doesn't do the things that help your team win.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Bargs is also 14th in the NBA for pts per 48 minutes.

Sidebar- Chris Bosh is 35th

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player...=Y&yearsExp=-1

You cant compare the 2. Bargs is the #1 option and Bosh is #3 option behind Wade and Lebron.

[ihatehaters]

As is, if Bargs remains with us for his whole contract, and possibly beyond, he is, and will continue to be the greatest offensive player ever on the Raptors.

No, he won't be a greater offensive player than Vince Carter was as a Raptor.

[ihatehaters]

Toronto is 12th in scoring. They average 100 PPG. They're no where near a bad offensive team. Their losses are due to their defense, which is currently giving up and atrocious 105 PPG. You theory of dude is posting inflated numbers on a bad team is flawed because the offense is good.

How does what you said even make sense? The Raps are not a bad team because their "offence is good"? They are tied for 5th-last in the league...

[JoePanini]

How does what you said even make sense? The Raps are not a bad team because their "offence is good"? They are tied for 5th-last in the league...

You should really read what he wrote before questioning...

[Arsenalist]

Bill Simmons: Andrea Bargnani gives up more than twice of what he scores

Andrea Bargnani: Averaging 21.7 points and 5.8 rebounds a game. Giving up 48.3 points and 20.7 rebounds on the other end. (All numbers approximate.)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...0&sportCat=nba

[Apollo]

Here come the fireworks in three, two, one...

[Multipaul]

LOL, go figure Simmons rips anyone NOT on the Celtics.

Anyone tried getting through his book? It's been collecting dust on my bookshef for 2 yrs. Afte the first 300 pages all about the Celtics and how they are the best team of any sport ever i put it down.

PS- Andrea should be in the 3 pt contest