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  • Craiger wrote: View Post
    Their numbers are actually very similar in Toronto compared to their respective teams right now. (one exception being Jack's 13 games - whats the deal with this number as a sample size anyways? - in the season he was traded 2010/11)

    Bayless:

    2010/11 - 16.1pts 4.0rbs 6.4asts 1.0stls 2.9tovs .479eFG% .545 ts% 14.8PER .065WS/48
    2011/12 - 18.0pts 3.4rbs 6.0asts 1.2stls 2.7tovs .504eFG% .561 ts% 17.7PER .139WS/48
    2012/13 - 14.1pts 3.6rbs 5.4asts 1.2stls 2.4tovs .476eFG% .514 ts% 13.5PER .108WS/48

    Jack

    2009/10 - 14.9pts 3.6rbs 6.6asts 1.0stls 2.6tovs .542eFG% .599 ts% 16.3PER .102WS/48
    2012/13 - 15.7pts 3.7rbs 6.7asts 0.9stls 2.4tovs .499eFG% .542 ts% 15.9PER .115WS/48




    from a statistical stand point, this is Marco's worst year since his rookie season.

    Perhaps this explains the discrepency - its all perception.

    They are on playoff teams, and therefore they are seen as 'better' players. When really they just have better teammates that help them win more games rather than teammates that (arguably) help lose games......

    Well there you go. So much for the "eye test."

    Comment


    • I think Bargnani will bounce back and revive his career but not here in Toronto. It'll be nice to wait until he starts playing better(which he's very much capable of) but considering what's happened with him lately, it most probably won't happen here. The longer he's hung on to, the worse it'll get for both Bargnani and the Raps. The most sensible thing to do IMO is despite his falling stock, trade him for the best possible return.

      A couple of ideas:

      1) Toronto/Utah
      Jonas V and Bargnani for E Kanter and P Millsap(S & T).

      2) Toronto/Detroit
      Bargnani and 2nd rounder for R Stuckey(back up PG) and V Kravtsov.
      Attitude Is A Choice.

      Comment


      • Bargnani needs to go.

        Hey guys. i know my first post got me in some hot water, but this needs to happen. Bargs doesn't fit in our new plans, and he needs a fresh start. I'd like to after a back-up guy with some salary and a 1st rounder, but who needs a PF who can attack in the paint, make smart defensive choices, pass the ball and rebound?
        Axel wrote:
        Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
        KeonClark wrote:
        We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
        KeonClark wrote:
        I can't wait until the playoffs start.

        Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

        Comment


        • Stuckey is awful I want no part of him in Tdot hes not a PG either hes a small 2 that cant shoot. Mentioning JV in trades is blasphemy.

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          • Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
            Stuckey is awful I want no part of him in Tdot hes not a PG either hes a small 2 that cant shoot. Mentioning JV in trades is blasphemy.
            But he is also an expiring contract this year and better than any other option Toronto has at backup PG.

            I would trade Bargnani for Stuckey in a heart beat.

            Comment


            • BC has always worn 'beer goggles' when it comes to Bargs. I wonder if he gets the axe and a new GM replaces him the expected return on AB would be much lower. Most of us would trade Bargs for a couple peanuts, a pick and some cap relief.

              Hopefully the same rumoured deals (Boozer or Hawes package) are still on the table.

              Comment


              • Wow, I'm afraid to vote because of the dictatorship tone of option 3.

                We should trade him for any player that expires at the end of this season. I will take absolutely anyone, even if the player is retired, or missing a limb. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should just take the first offer we get, but if there are no offers (which I think very likely), I'll take anything we can get.

                Put it this way, another NBA team could sign Jiroemon Kimura to a 1-year $10M contract and I'll trade Bargnani straight up for him if there's nothing else we can do. We really should save the Amnesty so we can also get rid of Kleiza. No matter how low Bargnani's trade value gets, I doubt it's worse than Kleiza's. At the end of the day Bargs is still a 7 footer and someone is will be willing to take a flyer on him purely based on his height.
                your pal,
                ebrian

                Comment


                • Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                  Stuckey is awful I want no part of him in Tdot hes not a PG either hes a small 2 that cant shoot. Mentioning JV in trades is blasphemy.
                  'Awful' is the way a lot of teams view Bargnani as well. So I'm suggesting an 'awful for awful' deal AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, as Matt says, he's an expiring deal. He's a combo guard who can ably serve as a back up PG for a year.

                  As far as JV is concerned, it's a matter of opinion. Personally I think it's a deal worth making. Millsap is one of the best PF's in the league and Kanter is potentially a solid Center.
                  Attitude Is A Choice.

                  Comment


                  • Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                    I think Bargnani will bounce back and revive his career but not here in Toronto. It'll be nice to wait until he starts playing better(which he's very much capable of) but considering what's happened with him lately, it most probably won't happen here. The longer he's hung on to, the worse it'll get for both Bargnani and the Raps. The most sensible thing to do IMO is despite his falling stock, trade him for the best possible return.

                    A couple of ideas:

                    1) Toronto/Utah
                    Jonas V and Bargnani for E Kanter and P Millsap(S & T).

                    2) Toronto/Detroit
                    Bargnani and 2nd rounder for R Stuckey(back up PG) and V Kravtsov.
                    I would be on board for both deals. Even the Utah one. Kanter in my opinion is going to be just as good as JV. JV may have a bit more upside but the different I think will be minute. To trade Bargnani for a player as good as Millsap makes the deal so much more one sided in Toronto's favour that it would be hard to pass up.

                    Comment


                    • ebrian wrote: View Post
                      Wow, I'm afraid to vote because of the dictatorship tone of option 3.

                      We should trade him for any player that expires at the end of this season. I will take absolutely anyone, even if the player is retired, or missing a limb. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should just take the first offer we get, but if there are no offers (which I think very likely), I'll take anything we can get.

                      Put it this way, another NBA team could sign Jiroemon Kimura to a 1-year $10M contract and I'll trade Bargnani straight up for him if there's nothing else we can do. We really should save the Amnesty so we can also get rid of Kleiza. No matter how low Bargnani's trade value gets, I doubt it's worse than Kleiza's. At the end of the day Bargs is still a 7 footer and someone is will be willing to take a flyer on him purely based on his height.
                      The thing is... how can you vote for a trade, but have no realistic option to present. Its different than wanting BC gone but not knowing a possible replacement because we dont see GMs working 3 hours a day on OK for 82 times a year. And because we need a willing dance partner to part ways with Bargs via trade.

                      You say any team will take a shot on him based on height, but its very well documented the be plays like a much smaller player. Maybe some team will be willing to take a flyer on him, but not with the money he is due this year and next.

                      Your Kimura option is akin to a team signing Bargs this summer for 2 years and $23 mil. Thats unrealistic.







                      As for Stuckey, that deal is good for use because of the ball-handling need we have and the expiring deal Stuckeys on. But Detroit isnt signing up to pay Bargnani for the next couple of years just so he can eat into Monroe and Drummonds minutes. Its not a realistic deal.

                      As for Boozer, I realize that was rumoured around the deadline, but I flatly dont buy it. Can you think of a worse player-coach match than Bargs-Thibs, because I sure as hell cannot. Thibs throws his body in front of that deal. Especially because Noah needs Boozers competent offense beside him to operate the offense from the high post.

                      Comment


                      • NoBan wrote: View Post
                        The thing is... how can you vote for a trade, but have no realistic option to present. Its different than wanting BC gone but not knowing a possible replacement because we dont see GMs working 3 hours a day on OK for 82 times a year. And because we need a willing dance partner to part ways with Bargs via trade.

                        You say any team will take a shot on him based on height, but its very well documented the be plays like a much smaller player. Maybe some team will be willing to take a flyer on him, but not with the money he is due this year and next.

                        Your Kimura option is akin to a team signing Bargs this summer for 2 years and $23 mil. Thats unrealistic.
                        Right on man. I used Kimura as an extreme example to illustrate my point. I want to vote trade but I can't come up with one because I can't think of a single reason why any team would want to trade for Bargnani unless they're trading a player who is about to die.

                        I suppose based on this discussion, the only realistic answer is perhaps option B. Keep him. Because we have no other alternative.
                        your pal,
                        ebrian

                        Comment


                        • ebrian wrote: View Post
                          Right on man. I used Kimura as an extreme example to illustrate my point. I want to vote trade but I can't come up with one because I can't think of a single reason why any team would want to trade for Bargnani unless they're trading a player who is about to die.

                          I suppose based on this discussion, the only realistic answer is perhaps option B. Keep him. Because we have no other alternative.
                          Yep, I think I agree. Thats why I havent voted yet. I really, really want to vote Trade, but Ive drawn a similar conclusion to you and cant bring myself to vote Keep just yet. That's kind of the direction I wanted this thread to go in. Everyone seems to think Trade is a no-brainer, but it's not terribly realistic. I'm encouraged by the 1/4 of people voting Keep. I may add my name there.

                          Im trying to convince myself that the Chuckwagon-Jimmer deal is realistic and worthwhile. Not there yet on either front.

                          The only other way we get a trade done is if we take back an albatross (Amare) or include another asset in the deal (JV). Im not ready to go there, either (although that Utah deal is interesting). I don't think Utah does that deal tho. They have no reason to want Andrea, and they already had the chance to take JV over Kanter and chose Kanter.
                          Last edited by NoBan; Mon May 13, 2013, 03:30 PM.

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                          • So the idea is to send him to a shitty team just like we did we Calderon...

                            Comment


                            • T.Dot wrote: View Post
                              So the idea is to send him to a shitty team just like we did we Calderon...
                              yup

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                              • The idea is so send him... somewhere. Anywhere, really. Bad teams may be more likely to make a bad decision, which is what acquiring Andrea would be. But sending him anywhere is the idea.

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