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  • Let's hope we get more entertaining losses like this so we can get a chance at these two over the next two seasons. A backcourt with these two with Derozan at the 3 is worth tanking for.

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    • Mr.Grinch wrote: View Post
      Be thankful!
      We couldve drafted adam morrison!
      My bad bro, what i really meant was, that if we hadnt drafted him, the team that had, would their be as much hate on him had he been surrounded by a better overall defensive team.
      Bargs is easily my favourite player so i ddint mean to sound ungrateful haha

      Comment


      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
        Tough loss. They played. They played hard. They played brilliant at times. They played stunned at times. They lost. Sound familiar?

        I wonder if JT is reading the RR forums. Or does having another C on the roster allow you to send a message to Bargnani - who unfortunately didn't get it. Even Jack was going on about playing both sides of the ball. OT, Bogut abused Bargs. I'm far from a Bargnani hater but at the same time - come on!

        DD rough night at the office. He plays and doesn't quit. One has to respect that. Given the progress he has made playing O this year, I think he'll get it on D at some point - it may be not this year but it will come. He has a willingness to learn and is clearly a hard worker. Maybe I'm sipping some Kool-Aid but he has really grown on me (sorry about the thread questioning you in November, DeMar).

        Amir played very well. One thing I noticed though was he played awful on the pick and roll - no hedge, no switch, just hang back and give easy looks for the guard with the ball or watch Ilyasova hit jumper after jumper. Oh well. In reality he was the best Raptor tonight. After watching plays like those, and Raptors in general make elementary mistakes on defense, I would question the teaching strategies of the coaches or the listening and learning skills of the players. *EDIT* Not enough credit given to Amir. He played a great offensive game. Outside of the screen issue he was solid. Great game.

        Calderon played big minutes again - 41. Given the fact Bayless generally performs when given minutes, I think he is being shopped - just my opinion.

        Ajinca had a good showing in the 1st half, dreadful second. A lot of jumpers for a 7'2" guy. But there is nothing to lose and everything to gain with him.

        One more ball for the lottery...
        Big problem I had with Bargs was the abuse 3 times, Bogut exacted on him in OT. Maybe, these guys don't read scouting reports - Bogut is a horrible foul shooter(Triano did not use Hack-a-Bogut in regulation, we could have won the game that way).

        They switched Bargs on Bogut after being abused at first by Illyasova(not that Amir could defend him either lol, a better option was Julian Wright or Weems with some adequate size if there is a post-up and long hands to disrupt his shot), Bogut still abuses Bargs(infact, Jack alludes to it in overtime, 3 times in a row, same result - a bucket), could foul him on next 2 possesions and save 2 points there but Bargs can not be bothered.

        DD did not have a good game but I saw something which I respect him for today - he played defense and when he knew that his shots were not going on(coupled with the fact that refs swallow whsitles on our side) - he passed the ball(in other words, he contributed where guys like Bargs get useless on the court once he does not contribute offensively).

        I am also concerned about Triano's plays out of timeouts. 2 possessions in case:-

        1. Down 2 at the end of regulation, Jose runs a pick and roll with Amir and Amir bumps into Bogut - that is a 50-50 call that we may not have had considering the way, the refs shafted us throughout the game (Anybody notice that the same "we are looking for the whistle refs" plays was also utilized in Atlanta and we lost).

        2. With 2.8 seconds left in regulation and tied, we pass the ball to Bargs at the 3 point line(wtf). An alley oop drawn play or an hand-off to the person inbounding the ball or a misdirection could leave someone open.(2.8 seconds is a lot of time in the NBA, a simple pick and roll even gets an open shot at the 2 not the end of period "Triano suckage" parked at 3 point line kind of plays we have seen in the last 2 games).

        Comment


        • I am a slow and recent convert to the "trade Bargnani" camp. I don't get all the people on the board who say he is good on offense. I was watching the game tonight, and found I winced every time Bargnani went up for a shot ... and tonight, at least, the stats bear it out. Sure he scored 23 points - 5 from the line and 18 from the field. To score those 18 he took 23 shots.

          Compare that to Amir Johnston - who got 16 in the field from only 11 shots!! Almost the same points ... from HALF the shots!!

          Based on tonight's game, the two Raptors who made me feel good are Amir Johnston and Jose Calderon. Jose should definitely be kept. Andrea probably has the same if not a higher market value than Jose. Trade Andrea, get something worthwhile back ... and let some other team's fans wince every time he launches a shot into the air!!

          Comment


          • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
            The problem is not AB the same way it was not Jack or Belineli or ...

            The problem is a system and a Coach that does not under stand who he has, what are their weaknesses and how he can have players on the court that compliment one another.

            P.S. Look at minute 5 of the 4th quarter when Ilyasova with a little head fake sends Amir to LaLa land and got an easy lay up under our basket That was embaressing.
            Oh, please! Let's not blame Bargnani. Let's blame the coach and the system. The first quarter for Bargnani was possibly the worst defensive quarter I have ever seen from a big man. No exaggeration because most big men who play that poorly on defense wouldn't last 10 seconds. Slightly better in the second half, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the system or the coaching. Did you see how Milwaukee kept trying to isolate Bargnani on defense and go at him. They would draw Amir out to the weakside and force Bargnani to be the defender. That's EXACTLY what I keep talking about. If Dwight Howard was on the floor, teams would STILL do that.

            P.S. There were too many poor Bargnani defensive possessions to name.
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            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
              Tough loss. They played. They played hard. They played brilliant at times. They played stunned at times. They lost. Sound familiar?

              I wonder if JT is reading the RR forums. Or does having another C on the roster allow you to send a message to Bargnani - who unfortunately didn't get it. Even Jack was going on about playing both sides of the ball. OT, Bogut abused Bargs. I'm far from a Bargnani hater but at the same time - come on!

              DD rough night at the office. He plays and doesn't quit. One has to respect that. Given the progress he has made playing O this year, I think he'll get it on D at some point - it may be not this year but it will come. He has a willingness to learn and is clearly a hard worker. Maybe I'm sipping some Kool-Aid but he has really grown on me (sorry about the thread questioning you in November, DeMar).

              Amir played very well. One thing I noticed though was he played awful on the pick and roll - no hedge, no switch, just hang back and give easy looks for the guard with the ball or watch Ilyasova hit jumper after jumper. Oh well. In reality he was the best Raptor tonight. After watching plays like those, and Raptors in general make elementary mistakes on defense, I would question the teaching strategies of the coaches or the listening and learning skills of the players. *EDIT* Not enough credit given to Amir. He played a great offensive game. Outside of the screen issue he was solid. Great game.

              Calderon played big minutes again - 41. Given the fact Bayless generally performs when given minutes, I think he is being shopped - just my opinion.

              Ajinca had a good showing in the 1st half, dreadful second. A lot of jumpers for a 7'2" guy. But there is nothing to lose and everything to gain with him.

              One more ball for the lottery...
              Ajinca took 5 jumpers... how is that a lot? Especially considering hit hit 4 of them.

              Comment


              • RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
                Ajinca took 5 jumpers... how is that a lot? Especially considering hit hit 4 of them.
                Actually he took 4 - made 3. One offensive rebound, putback.

                We already have a 7 foot shooting big man. I'd like to see one 7 footer on the Raps doing the dirty work inside.

                The fact he hit it doesn't mean anything. It is like the guy who pulls up for a 3 on a 3 on 1 fast break. If he makes it - oooooooh! - if he misses, you idiot!

                Comment


                • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                  Oh, please! Let's not blame Bargnani. Let's blame the coach and the system. The first quarter for Bargnani was possibly the worst defensive quarter I have ever seen from a big man. No exaggeration because most big men who play that poorly on defense wouldn't last 10 seconds. Slightly better in the second half, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the system or the coaching. Did you see how Milwaukee kept trying to isolate Bargnani on defense and go at him. They would draw Amir out to the weakside and force Bargnani to be the defender. That's EXACTLY what I keep talking about. If Dwight Howard was on the floor, teams would STILL do that.

                  P.S. There were too many poor Bargnani defensive possessions to name.
                  I wonder how much Kool-Aid is left by the end of the season? Seems like some people are gulping it by the gallons. A "Fire Triano" thread was started. I'm scratching my head. His benching in the first half spoke volumes. Ooh, let's continue to rave about his offence shall we? Tonight's game will be pretty ugly for AB7. I know he won't be dealing with Love directly but it will be handful nonetheless.

                  PS> Darko should have a great one tonight as well.
                  “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

                  Comment


                  • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    Actually he took 4 - made 3. One offensive rebound, putback.

                    We already have a 7 foot shooting big man. I'd like to see one 7 footer on the Raps doing the dirty work inside.

                    The fact he hit it doesn't mean anything. It is like the guy who pulls up for a 3 on a 3 on 1 fast break. If he makes it - oooooooh! - if he misses, you idiot!
                    Nope, he took 5... and he only played 12 min and this is a new system for him. You can't expect him to have a lot of rebounds.

                    Alexis Ajinca 10 PT 4-5 FG 2-2 FT 0-0 3P 2/1 RB 0 AS 1 BL 0 ST 2 TO 2 PF 12 MN

                    Comment


                    • RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
                      Nope, he took 5... and he only played 12 min and this is a new system for him. You can't expect him to have a lot of rebounds.
                      He took 5 shots.
                      4 were jump shots.
                      He made 3 jump shots.
                      He had one offensive rebound and put back which is counted as a shot.

                      New system affects rebounding? Please. What is Bargnani's excuse? He's been playing the system for years. Rebounding is get a man on your back and go get the ball. Some guys are better than others at knowing where the ball would come off the rim by watching the flight in the air. The bottom line is you work you ass off and go get it.

                      Comment


                      • With Amir, Bayless, and more importantly Davis and DD continued maturation, plus (please Jeeezuz!) a star draft pick, Bargnani will no longer be the face of the franchise and the 'go to guy'. He is a talent, no question, but in the first quarter and OT Bogut exploited his flaws and, in combination with some questionable coaching, that cost the game.

                        With that said, keep in mind the game Bargnani had against the NYK. It is all about match ups and the match up vs MIL did not favour Bargnani. Unfortunately, Bargnani cannot be and will not be a franchise player or best player on the team moving forward. The game has two sides to the ball and a dominant C (or sometimes even Speights) exposes him.

                        Once people come to grips with with Bargnani's game and the roster matures and adds talent, he should become more appreciated for what he can do versus what he can't. There are games when he brings the whole package and he is truly a pleasure to watch. Unfortuantely those nights are not consistent. When the nights come around where he isn't putting it all together, it will be good to have the option to sit him because the roster will have players ready to step in.

                        There are still pieces to this puzzle missing and it would be a shame to toss Bargnani before the puzzle is complete.

                        Comment


                        • Why has nobody mentioned the good job Andrea did when he switched out on Delfino a few times, or how when Bogut scored on him in overtime not one player even showed a double team? How about how terrible Amir was on the perimeter fouling Ilyasova on a three pointer, falling for shot fake after shot fake and giving up numerous blow-bys.

                          We all know Andrea has work to do on defense, but we can't blame every loss on him alone, we have major deficiencies all over the floor.
                          Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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                          • If "if's" and "but's" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

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                            • He needs to pull a Bosh...in a good way

                              Long time listener, first time caller. I am ALMOST a very tentative, convert to the trade Bargnani camp. What has gotten me recently is that he just doesn't seem to be trying. Last year there seemed to be more games where he was really nutting up on defense, playing strong man to man D. In fact, it was readily acknowledged that despite being a poor help defender and a disinterested rebounder, he was an above average man to man defender, even at the 5. This year, particularly in the last month, he's getting abused in one v one situations, and the effort just doesn't seem to be there.

                              I think he has to be hurting. And because of this, I would hesitate to unload someone with his offensive talent UNLESS you can get something significant back. If we can actually sell high and get someone who fits the rest of the team better, that is great. History, however, would say that that rarely happens.

                              What I want to see is Bargnani told by the club that he is not going back to Italy this off-season. I want him told that he is going to do what Chris Bosh did, hole up in a gym, and train his ass off all summer. He is going to get strong, period. He can score, but imagine Bargnani without nagging injuries and with an extra 10 to 20 pounds of muscle.

                              If he can't commit to coming back next fall as a physical beast, then at that point I say trade him.

                              Comment


                              • Ajinca was good last night but hsa alot to learn, if you watch him he turn his back to the play far to often and is lost on the court but he is still very new and those mistakes are excusable at this point. If he gains another 10 lbs and learns the game abit more i tinhk he can be a pretty decent player ifor us next year and so on. Id be interested to see him later in the season when he can run for extended minutes.

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