View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #221
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Macc wrote: View Post
    I'm sure his defence and rebounding numbers would be the same or less he he played Bargnani's minutes. He's just in for a back up center probably because we're sending Alabi to the D-League.
    Why are you sure?

    Show me statistically five other bigs whose defensive numbers have dropped when their minutes went up from say 15 to 20 mpg or from 15 to 30+.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  2. #222
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Bargnani is 24, he turns 25 in October. Yahoo has him listed at 250lbs. Ditto for ESPN.
    Weight---------------------------------------225-------245 Note: Bargnani clearly weighs more than 225 4sure..
    NBA.com also has him at 250, but I think that is light. My guess is about 255-260.

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrea...ani/index.html
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 09:41 PM.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  3. #223
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    Folks just better hope that Jay/BC doesn't start Andersen at center as so Bargnani can play PF.

    Both players are soft jump shooting big men who get pushed around in the paint by more physical players you don't need any numbers, stats to come to that conclusion.

  4. #224
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    Nice read.

    And some fool was questioning me about me talking about Bargnania moving back to his natural PF position- it came out of his own mouth as well. The lack of basketball knowledge from some folks is pure laughable.

    Barg's also says Bosh always played hard and that everyone knew he was going to leave the last few months of the season- did not BC as well. Bosh never played with a real center when he started along side Bargnani- BC's fault.

    I still say trade Barg's and build around the YG'z!!

  5. #225
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    Nice post. Always good to hear directly from the players. I believe we will have a hustle team and hopefully success will gel from there being a team, the anti-Heat. Be cool.

  6. #226
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    I wouldn't trade him who knows he may become a better Player in his natural position.

  7. #227
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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't trade him who knows he may become a better Player in his natural position.
    PF, C semantics.

    If Bargnani was going to became a real player like a number 1 overall pick should be it would have already happened- this is year 5. W/o Bosh, Bargnani isn't going to get as many clean looks as teams will now game plan for him as the #1 option for TO.

    BC extended Barg's for playing inconsistent & mediocrity & now he's the franchise player.

  8. #228
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Nice read.

    And some fool was questioning me about me talking about Bargnania moving back to his natural PF position- it came out of his own mouth as well. The lack of basketball knowledge from some folks is pure laughable.

    Barg's also says Bosh always played hard and that everyone knew he was going to leave the last few months of the season- did not BC as well. Bosh never played with a real center when he started along side Bargnani- BC's fault.

    I still say trade Barg's and build around the YG'z!!
    The whole concept of a player's natural position does not have near the meaning that is used to. Today there are are so many hybrid players that play multiple positions. In the old days players were pretty clearly identified as a 1 - 5 and matched up that way. Today the game has become a lot more fluid and many players have to play multiple positions. However, I will take it one step further and say that in some offenses positions in the classical sense are meaningless. For example in the Princeton, Motion and Triangle offenses the classic point guard responsibilities get distributed among various players.

    Lebron handled the ball more than anyone on the Cavs and I believe led the team in assists but he was not a Point Guard. So someone created the term Point Forward I believe when Bird played for Boston and Lebron is called a Point Forward. So what number is the classic position numbering system does that get?

    On defense players match up regardless of what their offensive responsibilities are.

    Bottom line I think that in today's game the idea of a "natural position" is unnatural. Players do what their offenses call for them to do at any given time and vice versa on defense.

    Yes the term "natural position is still used" but has in my opinion become an outdated meaningless phrase.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...-hybrid-player
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  9. #229
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Folks just better hope that Jay/BC doesn't start Andersen at center as so Bargnani can play PF.

    Both players are soft jump shooting big men who get pushed around in the paint by more physical players you don't need any numbers, stats to come to that conclusion.
    No one is going to say with a straight face that Bargnani can play team defense. It is clear that his team defense is horrible. However, his one on one defense has gotten a lot better and last season wasn't that bad for the most part. There were in fact a number of times last season that he played above average defense on the man that he was guarding.

    Getting pushed around is in my opinion a vacuum argument. Basketball is not a single facet game. It is a multi-facet game. You would think that someone who has played the game knows that.

    The results of how well a player's play impacts his team's results shows up not in a vacuum but in advanced stats that take into account the results of most of the important facets of a player's game. Anyone who is anyone in baseball uses advanced stats. Basketball probably because it is a faster more fluid game is harder to quantify when it comes to non-box score items such as "deflected passes", "times that a player is out of position on a play" etc, etc. Having said that, significant progress has been made in the gathering of vital facets of the game into quantifiable numbers as computer technology has improved. However, today other than a a limited number of fans and writers it is primarily team management that uses advanced stats in analyzing players' performances.

    Bottom line is advanced stats reflect more than whether a player gets pushed around by bigger players but instead reflects the totality of their game and its impact on their team's on court results. That after all is what is important.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  10. #230
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    Liked most of what he said, except maybe for the fact that he doesn't feel any pressure for being drafted no.1.

  11. #231
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Now thats a shocker! Everyone on the team felt (is that a euphemism for knew?) for a couple of months that Bosh was going to leave? Why wasnt there a presser? How is it Doug Smith didnt report this thru his sources?

  12. #232
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    The whole concept of a player's natural position does not have near the meaning that is used to. Today there are are so many hybrid players that play multiple positions. In the old days players were pretty clearly identified as a 1 - 5 and matched up that way. Today the game has become a lot more fluid and many players have to play multiple positions. However, I will take it one step further and say that in some offenses positions in the classical sense are meaningless. For example in the Princeton, Motion and Triangle offenses the classic point guard responsibilities get distributed among various players.

    Lebron handled the ball more than anyone on the Cavs and I believe led the team in assists but he was not a Point Guard. So someone created the term Point Forward I believe when Bird played for Boston and Lebron is called a Point Forward. So what number is the classic position numbering system does that get?

    On defense players match up regardless of what their offensive responsibilities are.

    Bottom line I think that in today's game the idea of a "natural position" is unnatural. Players do what their offenses call for them to do at any given time and vice versa on defense.

    Yes the term "natural position is still used" but has in my opinion become an outdated meaningless phrase.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...-hybrid-player
    I don't know if I agree, I mean sure horford can play center but he gets beat up for his lack of size. Barg rebounding hurt because he doesn't play the center position the way it's suppose to be played, his game puts him out of position of getting lot of rebounds.

    What I do agree with you on is that there are offensive schemes that can be run which will allow a team to do away with the conventional point guard. I personally wish Toronto ran these schemes and didn't have to rely on these guards that are currently on the roster who can not play defense.

  13. #233
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    End of the third round in a twelve-team league seems a little high to me. Wasn't he going around the 70th pick last season?
    If you take him there you're drafting based on potential. Personally I don't like taking gambles in the first couple rounds and I also don't feel he's worth a 3rd round pick. Fourth round sounds right. He will be a FC and the flexibility can't be underrated.

    Quote Macc wrote: View Post
    Yeah, he was low 60's in my league if I remember correctly. But it seems fair, All his numbers (except FG%) should rise. 20pts, 8reb, 2.5ast, 1stl, 1.5blk?
    He's top 30 if he posts that. Not to mention he's going to go get you a couple 3pointers every game and shoot a good percentage from the line for a center.

  14. #234
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    NBA.com also has him at 250, but I think that is light. My guess is about 255-260.

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrea...ani/index.html
    Yeah, Basketball Reference must be using his rookie measurements...

  15. #235
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Bargnani does good interviews. He's a straight shooter.

  16. #236
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Bargnani does good interviews. He's a straight shooter.
    Was this a chat or an interview? Anyway I just thought that Bargnani came up with some pretty intelligent and well-thought out answers. I think that's one of the things I've always appreciated about him. He can be very frank during interviews and seems pretty well-spoken (I'm not talking about grammar.. just the way in which he presents himself and his personality in these types of interviews).
    your pal,
    ebrian

  17. #237
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    Bargni lack of rebounding has always been due to the fact that he plays outside. As Bargni's game becomes post up oriented then you will see an increase in rebounding for Bargni. Because Bargni plays outside it gives the other Forward or Center a better opportunity to rebound. Thats why Bosh's rebounding was so high.

  18. #238
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    David Anderson is this season's Rasho Nesterovic. Nothing to get excited about, or compare Andrea to.

  19. #239
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    I really enjoyed the interview. Was this interview done completely in English? If so Bargs has come a long way in that department!

  20. #240
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Just to clarify.

    My point in creating this thread was to see how Anderson stacked up statistically vs Bargnani and to see if there are any conclusions that one might draw from the numbers.

    What I neglected to do was to clarify the main conclusion.

    Based upon the numbers it seems to me that if the Raptors do not acquire another "Big" that Anderson will become part of the regular rotation.

    We shall see

    Is this good? It could definitely be better. Think Bargnani and Chandler

    Then again it could be worse - Think Bargnani and Rasho last season
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

    Memories some so sweet, indeed

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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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