View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #3541
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post

    2nd, if Winston's stats were proving something about a player you LIKED, you wouldn't be up in arms about this.

    Lets start by saying that I don't think AB is an ALL-STAR . Lately, he is not even playing on the level of a good starter on this league.

    But as far as Stats goes I have to give this to MultiPaul. I have seen so many times on this board, how useless starts by Buddah, Tim and Liston were used to promote Amir Johnson and Crush AB.

  2. #3542
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    Lets start by saying that I don't think AB is an ALL-STAR . Lately, he is not even playing on the level of a good starter on this league.

    But as far as Stats goes I have to give this to MultiPaul. I have seen so many times on this board, how useless starts by Buddah, Tim and Liston were used to promote Amir Johnson and Crush AB.
    here's the thing though...if you go through all the stats that relate to impact (essentially, the advanced ones), 90% of them would show amir as having an overall greater positive impact than bargnani. bargs leads him in raw stats like ppg, but that's more a factor of his usg rate & shot attempts.

    the counter-argument is that amir fouls too much & his on-court time is lessened, or that he's not as skilled as bargs (offensively) and therefore can't have an offense 'run through' him. i don't think there's really ever been much argument, but there are layers to this as well. why does amir foul so much? certainly, he commits 'silly' fouls, but he also commits a fair number of fouls in his role as a help defender. is bargs' lack of fouling indicative of good, solid defensive play, or a sign that he's often not even in a position to commit a foul as a help defender?

    as far as skill goes (on the offensive side), i've always felt that bargs is a skilled offensive player, but mainly because he has the ABILITY to stick a variety of shots from a number of places on the floor (for a big man), because he's unusually mobile (for a big man), and because he's an unusually effective ball-handler (for a big man). but all of those things come with the caveat 'for a big man.' in the grand scheme of things, although he's talented, that talent isn't so great that we can remove this caveat...all the things that he does that impress us (well, some people) so much are done in the capacity that they are good 'for a big man.' at the end of the day, he's actually quite an inefficient scorer, especially for a team's #1 option. i get the argument that there really aren't any other options available to the raptors in terms of go-to guys...but i also remember how happy people seemed to be that bosh was vacating the scene, because NOW there wouldn't be that one guy who dominates the ball on offense, that it would be a much more team-oriented approach, yada yada yada. i made this point a couple months ago, but the base for the offense is pretty much the same as it was with bosh, just much less efficient.

    so....yay us.
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  3. #3543
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    holy christ, how does a 93 page thread just magically appear without me noticing?

  4. #3544
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    I was thinking the same thing.
    Multipaul must have been BUSY.

  5. #3545
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    I thought the same thing as well. I think all the Bargnani threads got merged into one. Nice and tidy.

  6. #3546
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    thank god. now i can ignore just ONE thread.

  7. #3547
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Much so. I've been waiting since '97 for this. It's too bad it wasn't the Patriots butts they were kicking again though...

  8. #3548
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    Wow. 108 pages, this is insane. Bargnani is either the most popular, or least popular player on the team.

  9. #3549
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    All of the above. As soon as he learns how to rebound well and play defense I think the negativity will subside.

  10. #3550
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    All of the above. As soon as he learns how to rebound well and play defense I think the negativity will subside.
    I think both are unlikely, but maybe one day, he'll be decent at them. Or as a minimum, put in completel 100% effort.

  11. #3551
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    If he were average at both and still brought the big scoring punch that might be enough, yeah, no doubt. Effort is another tough perception for him to break. I don't think it's always that he lacks the effort it's just he's laid back in personality. Fans wanna see the fire. Like Kenyon Martin in his attitude that's two sizes too big.

  12. #3552
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Raptors Coaches: May I Have Your Attention Please....

    I am tired of watching Bargnani catch the ball straight leg and fire up a brick from the 3.

    You have video. I'm sure MLSE gives you lots of equipment to review games and even more equipment to edit said video.

    For the love of all that is sacred and pure, please put a compilation together of Bargnani's jumpers on the catch.

    When he catches in the basic knees bent/triple threat position and shoots, he is nearly can't miss. His shooting stroke is flawless.

    BUT when he catches straight legged and then bends to go in to his shot, it is dreadful.

    I'm suprised I have to tell the coaching staff this but here is what you do:

    1) PUt together video 100 shots and make him watch it.

    2) Then put misses together in a row.

    3) Then put makes together in a row.

    4) Then take him to the gym and practice catching the ball ready to shoot - no, no, no! no shots - just catch, triple threat. Get Leo to help show this. He is awesome at discussing the basics.... on second thought, don't get Leo, we do want Andrea to pay attention.

    5) Then go from there in to catch and shoot.

    6) Do this day and in and day out until it is habit.

    I am totally sounding like a pompus @ss but this is something that is really driving me crazy as the year progresses.

    A perfect example is the 3 he took at the start of the first quarter and compare it to the 3 with about a minute left in the 2nd quarter.

  13. #3553
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I am tired of watching Bargnani catch the ball straight leg and fire up a brick from the 3.

    You have video. I'm sure MLSE gives you lots of equipment to review games and even more equipment to edit said video.

    For the love of all that is sacred and pure, please put a compilation together of Bargnani's jumpers on the catch.

    When he catches in the basic knees bent/triple threat position and shoots, he is nearly can't miss. His shooting stroke is flawless.

    BUT when he catches straight legged and then bends to go in to his shot, it is dreadful.

    I'm suprised I have to tell the coaching staff this but here is what you do:

    1) PUt together video 100 shots and make him watch it.

    2) Then put misses together in a row.

    3) Then put makes together in a row.

    4) Then take him to the gym and practice catching the ball ready to shoot - no, no, no! no shots - just catch, triple threat. Get Leo to help show this. He is awesome at discussing the basics.... on second thought, don't get Leo, we do want Andrea to pay attention.

    5) Then go from there in to catch and shoot.

    6) Do this day and in and day out until it is habit.

    I am totally sounding like a pompus @ss but this is something that is really driving me crazy as the year progresses.

    A perfect example is the 3 he took at the start of the first quarter and compare it to the 3 with about a minute left in the 2nd quarter.
    im sorry whaaaatttttt ????

  14. #3554
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    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    im sorry whaaaatttttt ????
    Basic basketball fundamental is to catch in a triple threat position/stance - i.e. you can shoot, drive, or pass. To do this, your knees must be bent, feet under shoulders square, and hands in shooting position. Bargnani sometimes catches with knees bent and sometimes catches with legs straight. When he catch with legs straight and shoot - awful. When he catch with legs bent and shoot - awesome.

  15. #3555
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Basic basketball fundamental is to catch in a triple threat position/stance - i.e. you can shoot, drive, or pass. To do this, your knees must be bent, feet under shoulders square, and hands in shooting position. Bargnani sometimes catches with knees bent and sometimes catches with legs straight. When he catch with legs straight and shoot - awful. When he catch with legs bent and shoot - awesome.
    Legs straight. When you see him do that, you know it's a miss.

  16. #3556
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default ...15th...

    Hollinger is ranking Bargnani 15th among International players in the NBA. That's one behind Jose Calderon, two ahead of Leandro Barbosa and three ahead of fellow countryman Danilo Gallinari.

    15 Andrea Bargnani, TOR
    Source: ESPN.com

  17. #3557
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    Legs straight. When you see him do that, you know it's a miss.
    Yup - every single time.

    It is such an obvious and correctable flaw. I really do wonder if anyone has ever pointed it out to him.

  18. #3558
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Yup - every single time.

    It is such an obvious and correctable flaw. I really do wonder if anyone has ever pointed it out to him.
    Usually when he's been missing a couple of shots, he doesn't feel as confident and calm to actually bend his knees. I don't know, but whenever he goes straight up, you know it's going to hit the rim real hard. Amir and Ed should watch his legs, and pounce for the offensive rebound.

  19. #3559
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    there's a two page bargs hating thread in the forum that is both not unique at all and completely uninteresting.. how has it not been moved into here?

  20. #3560
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    there's a two page bargs hating thread in the forum that is both not unique at all and completely uninteresting.. how has it not been moved into here?
    I'm not sure but I thought I had an original thread regarding the coaching and his shooting form but it got bumped here.

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