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  • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    That sentence my friend, proves my point all along that your hate makes you unqualify to analyz Raptors.

    The fact that you are willing to give a pass to BC for all his mistakes and... all well documented over the years in RR, his rlationship with AB and the whole Sam Saga and ... proves my point that logic has no place in your judgment right now when it comes to AB.
    When the hell have I ever given a pass to Colangelo? Just because I don't want the guy fired doesn't mean I give him a pass. I've criticized his moves plenty of times, but, overall, I think he's done a half decent enough job that I'm willing to see what he does with the current situation. My demanding him trading Bargnani is obviously aimed at him. And if Bargnani isn't traded within a year, well, I don't know what I will do.

    Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    The fact that you gave a pass to Jay and all his shortcommings in Player management and ... All his bad play calling and ... Just proves my point further.
    I've been very critical of Triano lately. Where the hell have you been?

    Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    Thank you for your above post because I could have not done a better job myself proving that you are Bias.
    Because I make a player accountable for himself? Yes, I am biased in that regard. Quite frankly, why aren't you? Why do you not feel a person should be held accountable for his own actions. You seem to want to blame everyone else EXCEPT Bargnani for his shortcomings.

    Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    And the icing on the cake is that you THINK One player is the ENGINE of the Whole team That my friend is just GOLD, I tell you, GOLD

    Anyway, I proved my point and I think I wasted enough time disscussing this with you.

    There are delusional people that think we have not landed on the moon.
    There are delusional people that think Elvis is still alive.
    There are delusionla people who think 911 was an insider job and ...

    It does not matter what you tell them, they will insist on their idea and I think it is the same with you when you come and say:

    AB is the Engine for Toronto Raptors .....

    Best of Luck Pal , but I promiss you that AB is not going any where till BC is in Charge here.
    I don't know exactly what point you have proven, except that you don't like people picking on Bargnani. My point is that Bargnani's game is so fatally flawed that it hurts the development of the team and limits what it can do in the future. He needs shots to be effective, but he's most effective when taking a lot of shots. Unfortunately, he's not effective when playing a lot of minutes because he's such a liability on defense and on the boards.

    The fact that nothing you say seems to actually debate the facts, but simply tries to distract from the real argument, shows me that you actually DON"T have a real argument.

    I agree that Colangelo has not done a great job. Exhibit #1, he hasn't traded Bargnani.

    I agree Triano hasn't done a great job. Exhibit #1, he allows Bargnani to play heavy minutes despite showing little effort outside of shooting.

    I agree Colangelo and Triano are at fault for allowing an atmosphere that condones sub-par defensive effort.

    I've never disagreed with those points.

    Unfortunately not one of those points changes the fact that Bargnani is a poor defensive player and bad rebounder and does not hold himself accountable for that. I don't want players on my team that don't hold themselves accountable for such basic things. Why do you?
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    • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post

      As far as developing Amir He is 23 , I give you that but he has been in the league fo 5 years so he is prety close to his ceiling and is quite develope. The guy at its best is a 3rd player off the bench in a good team.
      Amiar is as good as he's gonna get, but if Horace Grant can start on multiple championship teams, Amir can definitely start at PF on a good team.

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      • Brasky wrote: View Post
        Amiar is as good as he's gonna get, but if Horace Grant can start on multiple championship teams, Amir can definitely start at PF on a good team.
        Plus AC Green, plus Otis Thorpe, plus Udonis Haslem, plus Samaki Walker....

        Big men need to defend and rebound, and not be a liability on the offensive end. Amir is a good rebounder and defender and is an incredibly efficient offensive player. Amir might, right now, start for Orlando, Miami, Oklahoma, Denver, and possibly even San Antonio if he were put on those teams. All 50+ win teams this season.

        Amir is not a great player, to say the least, but he's one of the few legit players on the Raptors roster right now who actually consistently has a positive impact on the team. The fact that certain people want to criticize him (mostly in retaliation for criticizing of Bargnani, it seems) is rather dumbfounding.
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        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
          The D-day (decision day) is coming for Bargnani, no doubt. BC has admitted many mistakes in the past. If the days comes when he feels Bargnani is not part of the future or he can't win with him, Bargnani is gone. It would seem to me that given his salary he is not a number one option in BC's eyes. Unfortunately for Bargnani he is the number 1 option this year and he is taking a lot of slack because of it. Here is to hoping Bargnani gets a star to ride the coat tails of next year.
          i have seen almost every BC interview, and not once has he admitted anything.

          you're saying many times bc has admitted mistakes, can you provide a link or even just the date of any of them ?

          even for turk, bc said turk was out of shape and it was turk's fault it didnt work out in t.o.

          for bosh, bc said bosh checked out, which puts the blame on bosh.

          name one time, bc has admitted anything... it's always someone else's fault.

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          • karim_nasir wrote: View Post
            i have seen almost every BC interview, and not once has he admitted anything.

            you're saying many times bc has admitted mistakes, can you provide a link or even just the date of any of them ?

            even for turk, bc said turk was out of shape and it was turk's fault it didnt work out in t.o.

            for bosh, bc said bosh checked out, which puts the blame on bosh.

            name one time, bc has admitted anything... it's always someone else's fault.
            I don't have the time or desire to find any links, but I recall several times when Colangelo admitted making mistakes. Much more important, though, is that he generally realizes he has made a mistake and does what he can to correct it.
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            • Tim W. wrote: View Post
              I don't have the time or desire to find any links, but I recall several times when Colangelo admitted making mistakes. Much more important, though, is that he generally realizes he has made a mistake and does what he can to correct it.
              can you describe one, like what mistake was he talking about ?

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              • karim_nasir wrote: View Post
                can you describe one, like what mistake was he talking about ?
                He admitted that trading for O'Neal was a mistake, although I don't think it was as much a mistake as a gamble that didn't pay off. I also recall him admitting that signing Turkoglu was a mistake because he didn't fit in with the team. He heaped plenty of blame on Turkoglu, and rightfully so, but I'm pretty sure I remember him admitting that signing him was probably a mistake.

                Besides, it doesn't really matter what he admits to the press. I think far too much is written about what coaches, GMs and players say. It's why, for the most part, I don't pay attention to that. What matter is what they do, and Colangelo has consistently tried to rectify his mistakes.
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                • karim_nasir wrote: View Post
                  i have seen almost every BC interview, and not once has he admitted anything.

                  you're saying many times bc has admitted mistakes, can you provide a link or even just the date of any of them ?

                  even for turk, bc said turk was out of shape and it was turk's fault it didnt work out in t.o.

                  for bosh, bc said bosh checked out, which puts the blame on bosh.

                  name one time, bc has admitted anything... it's always someone else's fault.
                  Nicely Said.

                  Comment


                  • Clearly players who don't play enough minutes to qualify for a stat don't play enough minutes for a reason. Im sure if coaches valued rebounds as much as all you people around here seem to value them, then all these so called underqualfied centres with there unique and amazing rebounding abilities would get more floor time. Fortunatly, coaches realize rebounding is just one aspect of the game. With the exception of a few players such a Reggie Evans and Kevin Love most high rebound players are the result of players being at the right place to collect a rebound off a missed shot, which doesn't require much skill if u ask me. Now if there was a stat which seperated earned rebounds from unearned rebounds then I would think that rebounding stat would be more useful, furthermore if there was a stat for forced rebound which gives a player who is positioned inside the paint credit for forcing a missed shot, because in all likelyhood a player who forces a miss from this position is at a huge disadvante of actually getting the rebound himself, however one of his teams get rewarded for the freebies on the misses. You people are too caught up in mainstream stats, thankfully coaches see things from a different persepective.


                    Tim W. wrote: View Post
                    What you've done is simply looked at rpg, which doesn't take into consideration actual rebounding rate. Why? Probably because looking at rebounding rate hurts your argument. As WhatWhat has already detailed, Bargnani rebounds at a rate that is shockingly bad. The problem is if you simply look at his basic stats, it's not absolutely horrible (close, but not quite). The thing is that Bargnani plays 36 mpg because he plays on a team that has very little talent, overvalues his scoring and doesn't make him accountable for poor defensive play by sitting him, so he ends up playing 35 minutes per game. WHile Bargnani is the 17th highest rebounding center in rpg, none of the centers who played enough minutes to qualify played even 25 minutes per game. When you look at rebounds per 48 minutes, Bargnani is dead last in the league for centers who qualified.

                    Comment


                    • Yes, there are usually very good reasons why players don't play enough minutes. And, quite frankly, there are very good reasons why Bargnani should not be playing as many minutes as he does. The biggest reason he does get 35 mpg, however, instead of 25, is that he plays on a team with very little talent, and a coach who doesn't hold him accountable for bad defense and rebounding by sitting him more. Stick Bargnani on a better team, and his minutes would go down. Stick Bargnani on a good team, and his minutes go way down.

                      Yes, most fans get way too caught up in general stats, but the problem is that advanced stats make Bargnani look even worse. His scoring actually doesn't make him as good an offensive player as many think, and his defense may actually be worse that most people think. His rebounding, as well, is actually probably worse than most people realize.
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                      • You don't think Bargs is a bad rebounder huh? Then I have a challenge for you: next time you watch a Raptors game, just keep your eyes on him the entire game. Ignore everything going on except what he's doing and then come back here and tell me he's not a bad rebounder.

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                        • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                          Nicely Said.
                          What on earth does this have to do with Bargnani?

                          Your whole defense of Bargnani seems to be that Colangelo is a bad GM. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                          • Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                            You don't think Bargs is a bad rebounder huh? Then I have a challenge for you: next time you watch a Raptors game, just keep your eyes on him the entire game. Ignore everything going on except what he's doing and then come back here and tell me he's not a bad rebounder.
                            Oh, come on. Just because he made a bad argument, doesn't mean you have to punish the guy.
                            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                            • Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                              You don't think Bargs is a bad rebounder huh? Then I have a challenge for you: next time you watch a Raptors game, just keep your eyes on him the entire game. Ignore everything going on except what he's doing and then come back here and tell me he's not a bad rebounder.
                              No, No, No. I would try to avoid that if I'm supporting him, not a very wise decision. Side effects of doing so includes depression, anxiety of posting, and possible dislike of the player. You've been warned

                              Comment


                              • Raps fans always talk about tanking for a better draft pick, but the draft is a total crap-shoot. And as this season is indicative of, Raps fans are way tool reactionary to handle a rebuilding process without flying off the handle over a string of bad games.

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