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Fon Riego wrote: View PostHere, as you know, soccer is THE GAME, more than footbal there, but basketball players love the game as much as anywhere, have seen a lot of times, the Celtics-Lakers finals of the 80's as anybody anywhere, dreamt as mucha as anyone to c¡ould be one day the player that Bird or MJ was...but of course they are different: are normal people (almost all)...don't carry a gun to the lockroom...:\
Sometimes it's best to just ignore certain people, rather than play their games
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RecklessIndifference wrote: View PostDon't pigeonhole all of the 'U.S.' players. You are upset that people are grouping all 'euro' players into one mold, so your reaction is to do the same.
Sometimes it's best to just ignore certain people, rather than play their games
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If Bargni was paid like a franchise or marquee player then I would say fans should have beef. The fact is that bargni made 9 million last year almost half of what Bosh made. I can name 20 players who make more money and do far less then bargni.
Sirchilly what you write does show a sustained biased against international players and international systems. Every where in the world except for the US/canada develops their basketball players through a club system. If you haven't noticed that the rest of the world has caught up too the US. Just like Canada and hockey. The US still may have the best players and teams but that could change over the next 20-30 years as we do live in the information age. Only 15 years ago no one would have thought the US would ever lose a olympics after the dream teams came and dominated.
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Frankthetank wrote:*This post has been deleted*
in B.A. Baracus' words "i pity the fool"Last edited by James Ballswin (Realizar); Sun Aug 22, 2010, 01:13 AM.
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mj1s wrote: View Post"The writer defined it as a player on the level of Bosh, McGrady and Bosh. Probably a leader to some degree"
for one, i never thought mcgrady was a leader.
second, i guess if you put 2 bosh together you could have a marquee player.
as far as bargnani goes, i have seen glimpses of his ability in the past and i'm anxious to see how he has developed for the upcoming season...
"With his team needing a win to keep its hopes alive of reaching the EuroBasket group stage, Andrea Bargnani showed why he has carved a niche for himself in the NBA. The hulking center scored 24 points for Italy last night in its gritty 81-76 victory over Israel at Yad Eliahu in Tel Aviv. The most critical basket of the game came with 1:12 remaining, when the Italian was fortunate to handle a rebound that slipped out of the hands of Lior Eliyahu and Tal Burnstein, letting him waltz in for an easy deuce that put the game out of reach. "
source here.
By Eyal Gil
We have no one to fight like mad for every ball, somebody who will scratch, hit and strangle to get to it. No one is ready to sacrifice himself. There's no one to commit a foul.
And yet rather than play the one person who comes close to this description, Uri Kokia, coach Arik Shivek opted on Tuesday to keep him on the bench, even though Bargnani was totally outplaying David Bluthenthal and Lior Eliyahu.
Once Kokia entered the game, the scary 2.13m center stopped scoring, but it was too late.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...ntals-1.308885Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s
Memories some so sweet, indeed
Larger Photo of the avatar
“As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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People need nba.com to tell them this???? He can definitely turn into a really good player but i don't think he'll ever be a marquee player. Hope I'm wrong, but he will never be the #1 option on a good team. All star potential yes, marquee player no.
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tbihis wrote: View Post+1. guy says bargs has been inconsistent his whole career, when in fact his number increase every year.
in B.A. Baracus' word "i pity the fool"
However, most of the increase has been due to Bargnani's minutes per game going up each season.
On a 36 minute basis his scoring and rebounding numbers have increased very little since his rookie season.
Only about 3% a year in scoring and rebounding.
However, at least those numbers are going in the right direction even if at a snails pace.
He has improved at a better rate in his PER and WS/48.
However both still remain quite low relative to the league average for starting Centers and PFs
Bargnani's PER last season was about 15.6. This ranked him 26th among Centers. It would be a lot worse if he was listed as a PF; i.e. 35th. No, his efficiency on offense will not go up if he is moved to PF.
In WS/48 his number was about .072. The league average is .100. Bargnani has never equaled or exceeded or even come close to the league average in WS/48 in the four seasons that he has been in the NBA.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holli...3fposition%3dc
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...bargnan01.htmlAvatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s
Memories some so sweet, indeed
Larger Photo of the avatar
“As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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sleepz wrote: View PostI think the whole argument of "leadership" is overrated. Leadership menas nothing in the NBA if you have no talent. Talent wins and when you have talent 'leaders' guide the team to get the most out of that talent. The Raps had very little serious talent on this club last year (just 'potential' unproven youngsters and overrated players i.e Turks, Calderon, Bargnani) and have even less this year.
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Do The Raptors Win When Bargnani Takes Three-Point Shots?
Bargnani played in 80 games in 09-10.
When Bargnani made three or more 3FGs a game he averaged 21.1 ppg and the Raptors were 20 - 14.
In those 34 games he made 52% of his 5.0 3FGA per game.
When Bargnani made one or zero 3FGs in a game he averaged only 14.4 ppg and the Raptors were 19-27
In those 46 games he made 21% of his 3.4 3FGA per game
Conclusion:
When Bargnani was hot from beyond the arc he about took 5.0 3FGA a game and the Raptors played well.
When Bargnani was cool from beyond the arc he took 3.4 3FGA a game and the Raptors did not play well at all
The problem is that he only made more than 1 3FG in 34 of his 80 games.
Bargnani can not score unless he is hot from beyond the arc and he is way too inconsistent from beyond the arc for the Raptors to build their offense around.
============================================
Four or more 3FGM in a game
---------------------------------
3FGM--------4.4
3FGA--------6.0
3FG%-------73.3%
PPG---------28.8
Wins---------2
Losses-------3
Three -3FGM in a game
-----------------------------
3FGM--------3
3FGA--------6.0
3FG%-------50.0%
PPG---------19.0
Wins---------5
Losses-------3
Two -3FGM in a game
-----------------------------
3FGM--------2
3FGA--------4.38
3FG%-------45.7%
PPG---------20.2
Wins--------13
Losses-------8
One -3FGM in a game
-----------------------------
3FGM--------1
3FGA--------3.85
3FG%-------26.0%
PPG---------15.4
Wins--------14
Losses------19
Zero -3FGM in a game
-----------------------------
3FGM--------0
3FGA--------2.15
3FG%-------00.0%
PPG---------11.7
Wins--------5
Losses------8
Source:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/...AXy5Oq.5lTPaB4Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s
Memories some so sweet, indeed
Larger Photo of the avatar
“As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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To me, a marquee player is simply a player that fans would pay to see. Someone whose name you could put on the marquee to attract fans. Basically someone with name recognition. The Raptors have no one on the team that really fits that description at the moment. Bargnani may be a marquee player in Italy, but not in North America. Not by a long shot. How many fans are going to buy a ticket simply because Bargnani is playing? That's not a shot at him. I'm not really sure Bosh was either. Had he been, the Raptors most certainly would have been a better draw on the road than they were. I do think he was the face of the franchise, but someone fans paid tickets to go see? I don't think so.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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I like the stats but I might disagree with the conclusion.
It seems if he shoots more we have more success. He will be succesful (offensively) If he stays confident in his shot (which is crucial with any player).
I am not confident he can shoulder the work load for our whole team, but I am still confident he can bring something to the table if we play as a 'team'.
I think that's the part everyone is forgetting. They are saying it's going to Andrea OR the YGZ, Davis OR Andrea. What about Andrea AND the YGZ or Andrea AND Davis.
For too long we have gotten caught up in the building around a 'star' player mode. I think our only chance for success (especially this year) is if everyone plays their role.
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