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  • maybe if miami looses quickly in the playoffs lebron will ask to be traded and then we can trade him for bargnani

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    • Hassan wrote: View Post
      colangelo is just a very dumb GM, every single thing he says ruins something somewhere
      Every time BC holds a press conference, somewhere a Euro gets a contract.

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      • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
        90% of the posters have painted the wrong picture in my opinion. Because of this fairly or unfairly Bargnani has been constantly critisized and it has gotten to the point where those same 90% of posters want him traded. Because this was such a horrible year for the team and because the critics discount his offense (which would be just as easy to praise), his defenders me included have tried to think of other ways he can improve to accomodate the rest of you, who have these lofty expecations. Looking back, I don't feel I need to defend Bargnani as much as I have. He has surpassed many expecations in my eyes and until someone can prove that he didn't meet expecations in relation to the team expecations and his preformance from pervious years taking into account the talent level around him and the circumstnces mentioned in my thread then i just dont feel the need to prove anything.

        Yes he was the 1 pick of 2006, but never had to have #1 pick responsibilties until this year, which happened to be a rebuild year with very raw talent around him. If being a top 15 scorer in a rebuild year with little talent around you is disapointing to you your expecations must be extremly high lool.
        DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
        maybe your just in deniall when you look at that scoring leaderboard and see bargnani ahead of players like bosh
        You're putting WAY, WAY, WAY too much emphasis on scoring. Bargnani scored 21 ppg because he was on a crappy team without a lot of other scoring options. You think Bosh couldn't have scored more if he wasn't on Miami? You think Paul Pierce or Ray Allen or Kevin Garnett couldn't have scored more if they were given more shots on a bad team? Or Carlos Boozer or Joe Johnson or Jamaal Crawford or Josh Smith or Chauncey Billups or Al Harrington or Lamar Odom or Andrew Bynum or Vince Carter or Aaron Brooks or Manu Ginobili or Tony Parker or Jason Terry or Caron Butler or Shawn Marion or David West or Chris Paul or Carl Landry or Richard Jefferson or more than a dozen other guys in the league who could easily score 20 or more ppg if they were given as many shots as Bargnani took. When good players are on good teams they usually subjugate their scoring for the betterment of the team and do other things. The one dimensional players usually end up either player a smaller role or no role at all.

        It also seems you're trying to explain away the criticism of Bargnani by saying our expectations of him are simply too high. Again, you're not getting it. You think adequate defense and rebounding is expecting too much? I'm pretty sure most of us expect that from ANY big man. I know I do. Most of us would love to see him score less, as long as his defense and rebounding improved. If he scored 15 ppg with even average defense and rebounding I'd cease my criticism.

        You think our expectations are too high if we believe you can't win with a big man who is a very poor rebounder and defender? That's not expectations. That's history and experience.

        You have to give up this "but he was top 15 scoring" argument because it really isn't much of an argument. Corey Maggette has been in the top 15 in scoring several times, but because that's the only thing he does well, he's not going to help your team win, much. Ask Milwaukee. Same goes for Monta Ellis and GOlden State. Or even Marcus Thornton and Sacramento. On New Orleans, for a coach that demanded defense, he languished on the bench. On a bad team where he could take 17 shots a game he was able to score 21 ppg. Sound familiar?
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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        • like jack armstrong said he can do these things and we've seen him do it at this point it's mental he just doesn't think rebounding/defense really is all that important.

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          • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
            maybe your just in deniall when you look at that scoring leaderboard and see bargnani ahead of players like bosh
            It's weakass, kindergarten arguments like these which take away any credibility that Bargnani defenders may have.

            And Bargnani isn't good on offense. He's slightly above mediocre. If I were to rate his offense on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd be generous and give him a 7.
            Last edited by nubreed000; Wed Apr 27, 2011, 12:54 PM.

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            • Bargnani friking 7 feet tall, how are you a terrible rebounder I understand he's a bad help defender probably because he lacks movement, etc. but c'mon now at 7 feet tall there is possibly NO reason why he isn't averaging minimum 7 rebounds especially with the amount of minutes he receieves.

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              • If the Raps finally take off the "kid gloves" with Bargnani they're hypocrites because Sam Mitchell tried to handle Bargnani that way and they swiftly fired him. I'd love to hear Mitchell talk about this being several years removed from it now.
                Last edited by Brandon; Wed Apr 27, 2011, 04:37 PM.

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                • KingRaptors wrote: View Post
                  Bargnani friking 7 feet tall, how are you a terrible rebounder I understand he's a bad help defender probably because he lacks movement, etc. but c'mon now at 7 feet tall there is possibly NO reason why he isn't averaging minimum 7 rebounds especially with the amount of minutes he receieves.
                  That is what I've been trying to say all year. What a joke! Thank you for posting this.

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                  • Draft Kanter or Val and Trade him. This is the last time I'm commenting on this thread till draft day.
                    "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                    -Churchill

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                    • Brandon wrote: View Post
                      If the Raps finally take off the "kid gloves" with Bargnani they're hypocrites because Sam Mitchell tried to handle Bargnani that way and they swiftly fired him. I'd love to hear Mitchell talk about this being several years removed from it now.
                      I wouldn't exactly call them hypocrites. It simply means that they may feel they were mistaken, or that at the time it was the right move, but now things have changed. Plus, Mitchell was JUST fired because of how he handled Bargnani. It was certainly a main reason, but not the only one. Besides, no one can dispute that Bargnani was better under Triano than Mitchell.
                      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                      Follow me on Twitter.

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                      • Bargnani is a good player but he doesnt have the desire to be one of the greats. players like demar, amir, and ed and bayless dedicate themselves to the game and dont stop traiing and pacticing until they are the best.

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                        • I personally believe bargnani can be an effective 6th man off the bench with an ability to be a instant scorer. Its just whether we feel 10 million a season is warranted for your 1st guy off the bench especially in the NBA that we are heading into with reference to the new CBA. If the choice is to trade him now or later, you trade him NOW. Assuming the lottery balls put us in third position in the draft maybe using Andrea in a trade with possibly Minnesota, swap picks and give us Darko, we draft Kyrie. This upgrades us at pg and brings a more defensive minded centre. If my memory serves me correctly darko is a lefty. Darko and Eddy D would be a pretty good scrappy, defensive frontline for our team, with 2 dynamic gaurds (kyrie and DD).

                          Just my random thoughts.

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                          • K06 wrote: View Post
                            I personally believe bargnani can be an effective 6th man off the bench with an ability to be a instant scorer. Its just whether we feel 10 million a season is warranted for your 1st guy off the bench especially in the NBA that we are heading into with reference to the new CBA. If the choice is to trade him now or later, you trade him NOW. Assuming the lottery balls put us in third position in the draft maybe using Andrea in a trade with possibly Minnesota, swap picks and give us Darko, we draft Kyrie. This upgrades us at pg and brings a more defensive minded centre. If my memory serves me correctly darko is a lefty. Darko and Eddy D would be a pretty good scrappy, defensive frontline for our team, with 2 dynamic gaurds (kyrie and DD).

                            Just my random thoughts.
                            Darco's a bitch... harsh words but too true. i cant remember who they were playing but another center was posting up darko and he literally gave up it was just sad. he just stepped back and let the guy dunk it. tried finding it on youtube but itsa no go. not a chance were taking a loser like darko, dudes pathetic

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                            • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                              I wouldn't exactly call them hypocrites. It simply means that they may feel they were mistaken, or that at the time it was the right move, but now things have changed. Plus, Mitchell was JUST fired because of how he handled Bargnani. It was certainly a main reason, but not the only one. Besides, no one can dispute that Bargnani was better under Triano than Mitchell.
                              He was given more playing time. That's about it. His rookie year (advanced) stats are virtually the same as every year since. The only thing he's learned under Triano is he can do whatever he wants and there are no consequences.

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                              • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                                maybe your just in deniall when you look at that scoring leaderboard and see bargnani ahead of players like bosh
                                Like few guys wrote among scoring leaders were Corey,Monta,Marcus and so what?In the end of the season wins is what counts not ppg with lousy effectiveness ...I don't care about Bosh.This year he has nothing to do with our team.Bosh is history-get over him.By the way so is Vince and Hedo.I hate it when crowd boos those guys when they play against the raptors...very stupid move.I even think sometimes those boos make Carter want to play better and eventually beat us.Has happened in the overtime game 2 years ago with buzzer-beater 3 and buzzer beater dunk(sad face).I'm not saying you are one of those I meant that in general.You've probably laid your arguments many times about Bargnani but except his scoring I haven't seen anything that can logically convince me that he is lazy underachiever who doesn't care much about wining games for us.If I was a season ticket holder I'd be VERY disgusted to watch him NOT try on the defensive end.If Bargnani played average defense and was more effective on offense the Raptors could have been a lot better this season and the only excuse would have been the injuries.

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