View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #6801
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I don't think the amnesty clause had anything to do with it. Believe me, if Andrea was amnesty-ed, he not only would have received all his money from Toronto for the duration of the contract, some team out there would have given him a bigger contract than he's receiving now.

    Attribute it to proper coaching and more of an effort being put forth by Bargnani.
    I was going to write everything you just did ... so now I won't and just repeat what you said.

    I don't think the amnesty clause had anything to do with it. Believe me, if Andrea was amnesty-ed, he not only would have received all his money from Toronto for the duration of the contract, some team out there would have given him a bigger contract than he's receiving now.

    Attribute it to proper coaching and more of an effort being put forth by Bargnani.
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  2. #6802
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The amnesty clause has nothing to do with it. Bargnani gets paid his full contract no matter what if he were to be cut via the amnesty clause. In fact, he would make more money if he were made a amnesty clause casualty because someone else would give him a new contract on top of the Raptors' money.

  3. #6803
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I think someone was wildly jumping to conclusions here. Being amnestied is not a bad thing for the player. It's just a good thing for the team.

  4. #6804
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I agree with some of the posts above. Bargnani didn't have anything to be afraid of because he was getting paid regardless (whether amnestied or not).

    Unless you meant that he loves Toronto so much, that the thought of playing in a different city scared him.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  5. #6805
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Unless you meant that he loves Toronto so much, that the thought of playing in a different city scared him.
    Hahahah
    Well he is going through the motions of becoming a Canadian Citizen.

    Knowing Bargnani's penchant for Laziness, this could just be a case of him not wanting to lose months of Hard Work ..
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  6. #6806
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Hahahah
    Well he is going through the motions of becoming a Canadian Citizen.

    Knowing Bargnani's penchant for Laziness, this could just be a case of him not wanting to lose months of Hard Work ..
    I would imagine it is more of about shielding his income from Italian taxes and making travelling between the two countries easier.

  7. #6807
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The amnesty clause has nothing to do with it. Bargnani gets paid his full contract no matter what if he were to be cut via the amnesty clause. In fact, he would make more money if he were made a amnesty clause casualty because someone else would give him a new contract on top of the Raptors' money.
    pretty sure that's not how this amnesty clause works, in that a player is never going to earn more than what he's owed on the contract from which he's being amnestied. if a player (say, billups) is amnestied, the team that amnesties him is on the hook for all the remaining $, UNLESS he's signed by another team (either via the auction process, or afterwards as a FA if no auction bids are placed). when an amnestied player is signed by another team, whatever that team bids is taken off of what the amnestying team owes him. in billups' case, his salary for this year (just over $2M) comes off what he was owed by the knicks; knicks pay him the difference. so, he gets all of what he's owed, but not more.

    in bargs' case, you'd have to assume that if he were amnestied, there would be a number of teams interested in bidding on him, and the bids would likely actually be quite high (probably in the $5-8M/yr range)...leaving TO on the hook for just the difference...which is the ONLY reason anyone should ever suggest that bargs was even being considered a candidate (IMO, he never was).
    Last edited by yertu damkule; Mon Jan 9th, 2012 at 02:22 PM.
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  8. #6808
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I would imagine it is more of about shielding his income from Italian taxes and making travelling between the two countries easier.
    i'm not sure there's really any relevant 'benefit,' per se, to andrea becoming a CDN citizen. maybe less hassle, but it's not like he has to worry about the nit-picky day-to-day minutaie like a normal, commoner would (that's what handlers, assistants, team reps, agents, posses, lackeys & homies are for).

    income tax is based upon the laws of (and paid to) the country in which the income is earned; he'd have a CDN residence & a work visa, and pay income tax on his income to either the CDN or US gov't. he would only pay taxes to the italian gov't for property or income earned while in italy, would he not?
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  9. #6809
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    i'm not sure there's really any relevant 'benefit,' per se, to andrea becoming a CDN citizen. maybe less hassle, but it's not like he has to worry about the nit-picky day-to-day minutaie like a normal, commoner would (that's what handlers, assistants, team reps, agents, posses, lackeys & homies are for).

    income tax is based upon the laws of (and paid to) the country in which the income is earned; he'd have a CDN residence & a work visa, and pay income tax on his income to either the CDN or US gov't. he would only pay taxes to the italian gov't for property or income earned while in italy, would he not?
    Most western countries have a tax agreement in place that if one citizen earns money in the other country then the other does not tax as much at home..... or something like that.

    To be honest I don't know but I feel very confident in saying that there is no way in hell Bargnani does not pay any Italian taxes.

    Given the ongoing European debt crisis and austerity measures being enacted through the region, I believe Bargnani is putting his ducks in a row to ensure he is not crippled by future taxes on the rich in Italy. Just my opinion and I very well could be wrong.

  10. #6810
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I don't think the amnesty clause had anything to do with it. Believe me, if Andrea was amnesty-ed, he not only would have received all his money from Toronto for the duration of the contract, some team out there would have given him a bigger contract than he's receiving now.

    Attribute it to proper coaching and more of an effort being put forth by Bargnani.
    Good point for sure. Jay could not get anyone to work and DC seems to be a very good motivator.
    But I can't reconcile such a HUGE difference in effort being solely attributed to Coaching... maybe I am wrong

    Also I agree that he would have been picked up by any number of teams.

    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I think someone was wildly jumping to conclusions here. Being amnestied is not a bad thing for the player. It's just a good thing for the team.
    Dont underestimate the embarrassment factor in a league filled with so much ego.

    SEE Chauncey: http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssp...48484/33784047
    Last edited by charlz; Mon Jan 9th, 2012 at 03:08 PM.
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  11. #6811
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    Gilbert Arenas and Rashard Lewis would like to say something about being overpaid.
    rashard lewis never deserved the amount of money he got. but, when gil was given that contract he was one of the best players in the league.

    Bargnani was given all this money on potential, after not showing much for 3 years, he was given that much money, is ridiculous.

    btw, most overpayed player not in league is big country. haha
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  12. #6812
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    rashard lewis never deserved the amount of money he got. but, when gil was given that contract he was one of the best players in the league.

    Rashard put up 23pts, 7rbs, 46 FG% and 40 3p% before signing with Orlando.
    Not bad if you ask me.


    Now one could argue that NO ONE deserves the money that Rashard signed for, but he certainly did earn himself a very hefty Pay Raise after being VERY consistent in Improving his numbers Year-over-Year.
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  13. #6813
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    pretty sure that's not how this amnesty clause works, in that a player is never going to earn more than what he's owed on the contract from which he's being amnestied. if a player (say, billups) is amnestied, the team that amnesties him is on the hook for all the remaining $, UNLESS he's signed by another team (either via the auction process, or afterwards as a FA if no auction bids are placed). when an amnestied player is signed by another team, whatever that team bids is taken off of what the amnestying team owes him. in billups' case, his salary for this year (just over $2M) comes off what he was owed by the knicks; knicks pay him the difference. so, he gets all of what he's owed, but not more.

    in bargs' case, you'd have to assume that if he were amnestied, there would be a number of teams interested in bidding on him, and the bids would likely actually be quite high (probably in the $5-8M/yr range)...leaving TO on the hook for just the difference...which is the ONLY reason anyone should ever suggest that bargs was even being considered a candidate (IMO, he never was).
    I think if an amnestied player goes unclaimed in the waiver type amnesty process, he becomes a FA and the original team still pays the full contracted salary, and the player get's any new salary as a bonus. It doesn't really matter in ABs case, because many teams would have put in a claim on him.

  14. #6814
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Rashard put up 23pts, 7rbs, 46 FG% and 40 3p% before signing with Orlando.
    Not bad if you ask me.


    Now one could argue that NO ONE deserves the money that Rashard signed for, but he certainly did earn himself a very hefty Pay Raise after being VERY consistent in Improving his numbers Year-over-Year.
    your right. it's just that I don't like rashard lewis.
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  15. #6815
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Dont attribute Bargs sudden improvement of play to him being moved over to PF.

    ... and yes it is so much better than before. The guy actually cares and hustles out there something we all knew he could do, but would not.

    Thank the Amnest clause - I know people dont believe it but Bargs was on a short list of players in Toronto to be dumped, in a different year and a different phase of rebuilding he may have been.
    Andrea Bargnani (42 mill over 4 years)
    11-12 $9,000,000
    12-13 $10,000,000
    13-14 $11,000,000
    14-15 $12,000,000

    Bargs must have read the numerous articles over the summer which ripped him and the ROI of his salary.



    If I were BC I would hang on to amnesty until next summer to keep him honest, and I would still try and move him for a true center or PG - Ed Davis is a true PF and will flourish if given minutes with 1/8th the salary... I like Bargs play of late but I remain sceptical .... lets see how it pans out.

    Others have already stated that being amnestied still pays the player his full contract and the signing team would reduce the Raptors obligations by whatever they paid Bargnani. There was mention that it is a benefit to the club...what benefit would the Raptors hope to get from amnesty with Bargs without anything in return? Bargs is an easily tradeable asset so why would anyone amnsety him for nothing and possibly lose money? Guys like Arenas were amnestied because he stinks and his contract is huge and the Magic hope someone picks him up and eases their financial burden while opening cap space to make Howard happier. Billups was amestied strictly to clear cap space. Raptors are not in a position to have to or want to do that let alone with an asset like Bargnani.

  16. #6816
    Raptors Republic Rookie Killingjoke's Avatar
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    Getting your cash and not playing? Id welcome it. Course Im a very lazy person, wish I could of been McGrady and Marbury when they got exiled from their team getting over 20 million. Unreal. Anyways no team would give him a bigger contract, thats just stupid. It would be a plus for him if it happened. He already has a lot of pressure and scruting from the fans. If he went to another team he'd be where he should be, a very solid sixth man.

  17. #6817
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Killingjoke wrote: View Post
    Getting your cash and not playing? Id welcome it. Course Im a very lazy person, wish I could of been McGrady and Marbury when they got exiled from their team getting over 20 million. Unreal. Anyways no team would give him a bigger contract, thats just stupid. It would be a plus for him if it happened. He already has a lot of pressure and scruting from the fans. If he went to another team he'd be where he should be, a very solid sixth man.
    That is a fair statement in past seasons. This year, however, he is a top 20 (maybe a little higher) player in the league.

  18. #6818
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    I used to love rashard Lewis. He's a wet 3 pt shooter

  19. #6819
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    I think if an amnestied player goes unclaimed in the waiver type amnesty process, he becomes a FA and the original team still pays the full contracted salary, and the player get's any new salary as a bonus. It doesn't really matter in ABs case, because many teams would have put in a claim on him.
    yeah, that may be, but i thought i read something larry coon wrote that the process remained the same with respect to who pays what for an amnestied player...that passing through the auction process unclaimed didn't change the fact that the team amnestying the player does get some degree of financial relief. the only difference, as far as i know, is that once an amnestied player passes through the auction unclaimed, he becomes a 'true' FA & can choose who he signs with. if the length of the deal differs from the contract in which he was amnestied from, i believe the portion that the amnestying team is responsible for is pro-rated.

    holy shit.
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  20. #6820
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Most western countries have a tax agreement in place that if one citizen earns money in the other country then the other does not tax as much at home..... or something like that.

    To be honest I don't know but I feel very confident in saying that there is no way in hell Bargnani does not pay any Italian taxes.

    Given the ongoing European debt crisis and austerity measures being enacted through the region, I believe Bargnani is putting his ducks in a row to ensure he is not crippled by future taxes on the rich in Italy. Just my opinion and I very well could be wrong.
    i'm sure that is how it works, but players only 'earn' money during the season, when they're residing in the US (or in bargs' case, canada). i'm sure he is paying some tax in italy, but i'd question how much is based on his NBA salary...more likely simply taxes as a resident. i mean, if (as a CDN citizen) i work & live in FLA for 7 months a year, and come home for 5, what (income) taxes am i paying in Canada? all the income i've earned has been in the states. if i own property here, then i'm paying property taxes, and of course, contributing sales tax on items purchased, etc...honestly, i really don't know.

    but i do see why he'd want to be sure he's protecting himself. that continent's in some twubba...
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