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  • ceez wrote: View Post
    I get enough of it from my wife
    hahahaha same here! i mean from my own wife. Not yours. That would just be wrong. hhahaha

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    • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
      Well besides Multipaul, I'm not sure anyone in the entire Forum has ever consistently backed Bargnani. Haha

      I support him, and always have, but I'm not sure there is anyone around these parts who could turn around and say "I told you so", and not be lying to themselves. Everyone has had doubts about the guy, and that is understandable.

      I have high hopes he puts those doubts to rest and starts playing like we expect him to; however I will not be surprised if he doesn't.
      My exact same sentiments!!! Does this make us fanboys or trolls?

      hahaha

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      • tbihis wrote: View Post
        My exact same sentiments!!! Does this make us fanboys or trolls?

        hahaha
        Hahah, I do believe it does, yes.

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        • Tim W. wrote: View Post
          I hear you. I get enough of it from your wife, as well.
          Behave!
          @sweatpantsjer

          Comment


          • Amongst my friends im THE biggest Bargnani troll, the only way i can defend myself against their ridicule is to hype him up haha and ive been waiting to prove them wrong for a while now..
            However i have a bet with my mate $20 that Bargs will be in one of the All NBA teams! (i'd had a few ok)
            Here in New Zealand, everyones a cliched Miami , Bulls or Lakers fan, so to be aRaptors fan you cop it alot haha, so i WILL be one of the ones to say 'I told you so' when the time comes!

            In the mean time, ill continue to unecessarily hype up Bargnani to false expectations...for now, hes gonna surprise us

            Comment


            • YelaRoth wrote: View Post
              Amongst my friends im THE biggest Bargnani troll, the only way i can defend myself against their ridicule is to hype him up haha and ive been waiting to prove them wrong for a while now..
              However i have a bet with my mate $20 that Bargs will be in one of the All NBA teams! (i'd had a few ok)
              Here in New Zealand, everyones a cliched Miami , Bulls or Lakers fan, so to be aRaptors fan you cop it alot haha, so i WILL be one of the ones to say 'I told you so' when the time comes!

              In the mean time, ill continue to unecessarily hype up Bargnani to false expectations...for now, hes gonna surprise us
              I was a big Bargnani supporter/defender until last year. I finally gave up on him.

              With that said, I'd love him to finally 'get it'. If he could play average defense and get average rebounds he would be a top player in the league.

              If, if, if, if, if...... IF.

              Notice that is 5 if's and a sixth upcoming?

              Comment


              • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                My problem with him doing this is that, because of his personality, there's a good chance he simply wouldn't be able to sustain it. Then it further hinders the development of a team unsure of what to do with him. And by that time either Davis or Amir might have been traded away.
                Agreed BC has to figure out what he's doing but I don't see Amir's development being hindered. What he's shown is what I think we're gonna see not sure he has another gear or two. Now Davis on the other hand could be affected no question. I'm sure Casey will play Davis 30+ a night so he should get his fair shake. But as we've seen should and does are two completely different things with the organization.....Only time will tell.

                Comment


                • Love that this thread has cracked 200 pages.

                  Anyway, was rooting around basketballreference for absolutely no reason, and came up with a question (or series of questions).

                  1. Is Andrea Bargnani actually any better than Charlie Villanueva? Go check out their careers, they're actually strikingly similar. Villanueva actually has a marginal edge in most of the advanced stat categories.

                  2. Have other NBA GM's realized this? If Colangelo called up Dumars and said "hey look I'll give you Bargnani and take Charlie Villanueva off your hands", what would Dumars do?

                  3. As a Raptor fan how would you feel about this trade? Villanueva is basically the same guy, no defense, lots of perimeter shooting, frustratingly skilled, only less Italian and less hairy.

                  The benefit is that Villanueva is owed 31 million over the next 4 seasons, vs the 50 million over the next 5 for Bargnani. I guess Dumars might not want to take on the extra money, but if he doesn't what does that say about the trade market for Bargnani if we can't even get a guy who's widely regarded as an overpaid bench player for an also ran?

                  Personally I would do this in a heartbeat. I'm out on Bargnani, and I think it's a good idea to move him before the rest of the league figures it out and we're sitting around in 2015 asking how that white dude on the bench is making 11.5 mil.

                  Fun Fact: ShamSports.com's description of Villanueva's contract includes the following gem "contains performance bonuses currently listed as 'unlikely'."
                  Last edited by LamarVannoy; Fri Dec 2, 2011, 01:41 AM. Reason: hilarity

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                  • LamarVannoy wrote: View Post
                    Love that this thread has cracked 200 pages.

                    Anyway, was rooting around basketballreference for absolutely no reason, and came up with a question (or series of questions).

                    1. Is Andrea Bargnani actually any better than Charlie Villanueva? Go check out their careers, they're actually strikingly similar. Villanueva actually has a marginal edge in most of the advanced stat categories.

                    2. Have other NBA GM's realized this? If Colangelo called up Dumars and said "hey look I'll give you Bargnani and take Charlie Villanueva off your hands", what would Dumars do?

                    3. As a Raptor fan how would you feel about this trade? Villanueva is basically the same guy, no defense, lots of perimeter shooting, frustratingly skilled, only less Italian and less hairy.

                    The benefit is that Villanueva is owed 31 million over the next 4 seasons, vs the 50 million over the next 5 for Bargnani. I guess Dumars might not want to take on the extra money, but if he doesn't what does that say about the trade market for Bargnani if we can't even get a guy who's widely regarded as an overpaid bench player for an also ran?

                    Personally I would do this in a heartbeat. I'm out on Bargnani, and I think it's a good idea to move him before the rest of the league figures it out and we're sitting around in 2015 asking how that white dude on the bench is making 11.5 mil.

                    Fun Fact: ShamSports.com's description of Villanueva's contract includes the following gem "contains performance bonuses currently listed as 'unlikely'."
                    I actually have been comparing the two for years. In fact, before the Raptors drafted Bargnani, Villanueva was my target of choice on the Raptors. He's actually the reason I came up with the fga/fta ratio as a way of determining whether a player has the potential to become a consistent top scorer. Many of the arguments I've had about Bargnani are the same ones I had about Villaneuva. Villaneuva is a better rebounder than Bargnani and is actually pretty decent. Bargnani is a better scorer, though. Both are poor defenders, though, and have "motivation problems" which is why I've never wanted anything to do with either one.
                    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                    • Villanueva has a favourable contract to Bargnani but I can't get excited about the prospect of CV back in a Raptors uniform. It's more of the same thing and the Raptors are deepest at that PF position.

                      Comment


                      • The difference in contracts is 1 year, and $17 million. This trade wouldn't make any difference on the court though.

                        The other scenario is using the amnesty on Bargnani. Would you rather have Villenueva, or an amnestied Bargnani?

                        Comment


                        • The case for one more year...... again

                          By Dan Levine

                          With the NBA on its way back, the local media landscape actually includes some Raptors-related content.

                          And sure, there are free agents to discuss and new CBA rules to digest, but it’s quickly become apparent that Bryan Colangelo has no plans to spend much coin in the near future (Eric Koreen, National Post):

                          “Let’s just say to go out and spend money [immediately] just to spend money would be probably swimming against the current idea of what the plan is all about,” Colangelo said.”

                          “The plan is to acquire the right pieces, the correct pieces to keep adding to this young nucleus that we have or to put championship pieces together.”

                          Regardless of what you think of that strategy/sentiment, it means that much of the spotlight will fall on the development of current players and new head coach Dwane Casey. Jonas Valanciunas is still a year away, and wins will ultimately be less important than a sense of direction and individual progression.

                          Some of the more important players to follow will be DeMar DeRozan, Jerryd Bayless, Ed Davis and Amir Johnson. Davis and Johnson could battle for minutes at the power forward spot, while Bayless will look to prove he can handle the starting point guard position. DeRozan is up for an extension at the end of the season and 2012 will be an important year for him.

                          Still, none of these players present the quagmire that is Andrea Bargnani.

                          Entering his sixth season, Bargnani seemingly presents as many question marks as he did on draft day. Inconsistent defense and questionable effort are hallmarks of his game, but still, Bargnani has the ability to score at an elite level for a big man. And so, the Raptors continue to look for ways to win with him in the lineup, despite countless frustrating moments along the way.

                          Many fans want Bargnani gone now. Others wanted him gone yesterday, or three seasons ago. Through it all, we often heard that each season was Bargnani’s “now or never” campaign, only to see him return to his starting role despite disappointing results. But 2011/2012 appears to actually, really be Bargnani’s last chance to prove himself in Toronto.

                          As Tim Chisolm writes:

                          “One of the reasons that the Raptors hired Dwane Casey as their head coach was so that he could try to hide Andrea Bargnani on defence the same way that he hid Dirk Nowitzki in Dallas. If Bargnani can be so hidden, then his place in Toronto’s future may be cemented. If he cannot be, then the Raptors need to divest themselves of his services. They have to see him play under Casey, though, to know one way or another.


                          So why the urgency? Because no player on the roster requires as much compensating for as Bargnani; and if Colangelo is to make roster alterations to continue this rebuilding process, he needs to know if Bargnani is a piece worth compensating for anymore or not. This season was meant to be a freebie of sorts for Casey and Colangelo; a year where everyone knew losing was inevitable but they could tinker with their roster makeup before getting a windfall of cap space, a potentially dynamite draft pick in a loaded draft, and the arrival of the centre of the future, Jonas Valanciunas. After next summer, the expectations are going to heat up, and they can’t afford to continue assessing Bargnani in that environment. By next summer they need to know – one way or another – what they are doing with him, and they need this season to figure out what the answer to that question is.

                          Chisolm nails this one right on the head. With the Raps expected to completely bottom out this season (if they hadn’t already), there is a mostly pressure-free environment to develop players. Bargnani is out of excuses at this point, and it will be interesting to see whether he can improve under coach Casey, or whether fans will be subjected to more of the same. If Bargnani can really be hidden on defense, it will make it much easier to appreciate his offensive contributions. On the other hand, it may be impossible to properly contend with a defender as putrid as Bargs.

                          Take this next link with a grain of salt, but Ryan Wolstat of the Sun reports that Bargnani has been working hard on his game during the lockout, including recent sessions in Toronto with personal trainers. As Chris Rock would say, “Want a cookie?” This should be expected from Bargnani… but it’s still nice to see after years of laziness.

                          Source


                          The best case scenario will probably be Bargnani having a stellar individual year as the Raptors are brutal and he fetches some assets at the trade deadline or on draft day.


                          I'm torn. In one breath I can see Bargnani shocking everyone (well, maybe not Tim lol). But in the other breath I can see Bargnani continuing to be, well, Bargnani.


                          In the end I can see either way leaving Toronto in a good position moving forward to build a true contender.

                          Comment


                          • The worry is that Bargnani doesn't improve (much) under Casey, and lowers his trade value to the point that Colangelo doesn't pull the trigger on any future trades.

                            Comment


                            • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                              The worry is that Bargnani doesn't improve (much) under Casey, and lowers his trade value to the point that Colangelo doesn't pull the trigger on any future trades.
                              Some rational thinking is needed when thinking about Bargnani's trade value and Colangelo's ability to make a trade.


                              Think about Turkoglu. Think about how awful he played. Think about how out of shape he was. Think about how difficult he was. Think about he was 31 in the summer of 2010. Think about the scathing remarks from Turkoglu in early June 2010.

                              Now realize Turkoglu's remaining 4 years and over $40M was traded for Barbosa who was a cheaper and shorter contract as well as a better player.


                              While Bargnani has his flaws he is nowhere near the bad contract or fading talent Turkoglu is and was.

                              If Turkoglu can be traded for value, Bargnani will most definitely return value.

                              Comment


                              • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                Source


                                The best case scenario will probably be Bargnani having a stellar individual year as the Raptors are brutal and he fetches some assets at the trade deadline or on draft day.


                                I'm torn. In one breath I can see Bargnani shocking everyone (well, maybe not Tim lol). But in the other breath I can see Bargnani continuing to be, well, Bargnani.


                                In the end I can see either way leaving Toronto in a good position moving forward to build a true contender.
                                Well the season is here and he is too...so we wait. I figure by feb-Mar we shall all (at least most of us) have an opinion whether Casey and possibly a true centre was able to make a difference/uplift his game. Truly his last chance here.

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