View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #8701
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    If JL3 keeps coming big like he has kinda hard to part with him lol, but he is a definition of streaky shooter and Nate has attitude problems hes a headcase. If Boozer wasnt so much goddam money in a heartbeat Id say go for it but if he was cheap Bulls wouldnt be moving him lol pick your poison. Everything in this deal isnt really an answer for anything....
    Talent equations:

    Boozer>Bargnani
    Robinson>Lucas

    Robinson might be a headcase but he has played some damn good ball this year - and that was before looking at Chr1st1anL's post 344. Robinson would be a large upgrade at backup PG. Lucas has been very hot of late but Robinson is no slouch from deep either.
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  2. #8702
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    If JL3 keeps coming big like he has kinda hard to part with him lol, but he is a definition of streaky shooter and Nate has attitude problems hes a headcase. If Boozer wasnt so much goddam money in a heartbeat Id say go for it but if he was cheap Bulls wouldnt be moving him lol pick your poison. Everything in this deal isnt really an answer for anything....
    Agreed. I mean, Boozer is an upgrade, but the contract will limit our cap, and we're still going to be looking for a back-up guard.

    EDIT* Robinson would become the back-up guard, but no 3rd stringer, plus our point guards are score first.

  3. #8703
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Agreed. I mean, Boozer is an upgrade, but the contract will limit our cap, and we're still going to be looking for a back-up guard.
    I think we'd wait until next year to find a backup PG...and just run with Nate for the final 29 games.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  4. #8704
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I think we'd wait until next year to find a backup PG...and just run with Nate for the final 29 games.
    Never know, Nate might be that guy. The talent is there, the head is the issue of course.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  5. #8705
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Never know, Nate might be that guy. The talent is there, the head is the issue of course.
    Nate hasn't had that problem this year, because he's playing under Thibodeau. Casey is sort of near that type of coach, so, we'll see. No doubt Robinson will get quite a bit of freedom on the floor.

  6. #8706
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Utah Jazz: Boozer returns, with good health, good numbers
    Former Utah power forward has been a rock for Chicago with Derrick Rose out.



    The Bulls arrive as one of the surprise teams in the NBA. They are fourth in the Eastern Conference despite the fact former MVP Derrick Rose has not played this season because of a knee injury.

    Enter Boozer.

    After struggling for most of his first two seasons in Chicago — so much so that there were rumors the Bulls wanted to trade him — Boozer has put together his best season for them.

    He averages 15.7 points and 9.6 rebounds. More significantly, he played in 45 of Chicago’s first 48 games.

    In January, coach Tom Thibodeau told the Chicago Tribune that Boozer deserved to join two other Bulls — Joakim Noah and Luol Deng — in the All-Star Game.

    "These things are always tough because there is limited space and deserving players," Thibodeau said. "But Carlos has been unbelievable, so I think he’s deserving."

    Noah agreed.


    "I wouldn’t be in this position if it wasn’t for Carlos especially," he said. "He demands so much attention because of how good he is offensively. I’m able to get a lot of easy baskets because of Carlos. ... I appreciate playing with him. He works really, really hard."

    For the last two weeks, Boozer has been bothered by a sore hamstring. He missed games at Milwaukee, Brooklyn and Atlanta but returned for Monday’s 111-101 loss at Indiana. Against the Pacers, he finished with 10 points and five rebounds in 23 minutes.

    "You’ve got to be smart and careful about it," Boozer told ESPNChicago.com. "I’m going to be smart and careful about it."

    Of course, Boozer’s injury-plagued past is why his legacy in Utah is tarnished — at least in the minds of many Jazz fans.

    During six seasons with the Jazz, Boozer earned two All-Star berths, played on the U.S. Olympic team and helped Utah reach the 2007 Western Conference finals.

    But those injuries ...

    In Utah, Boozer missed 138 of 492 regular-season games. He played as many as 74 games only three times. In the other three seasons, he played 51, 33 and 37 games.

    Still, Tyrone Corbin remains a Boozer fan, just as Jerry Sloan was when he coached the Jazz.

    "Great guy, great teammate, great guy to work with," Corbin said. "I spent a lot of time working with him. ... Just a great human being. We enjoyed the time we spent together."

    Asked about Boozer’s critics in Utah, Corbin shook his head.

    "I don’t know if the criticism was justified," he said. "But if you’re hurt, you’re hurt. What can you do? And I know he was hurt and always trying his hardest to get back.

    "Knowing Booz — he didn’t want to miss games. He wanted to be out there with his teammates. And it hurt him more than anyone when he couldn’t be out there helping his team."


    Corbin recalled one incident when Boozer tried to prematurely return from a hamstring injury.

    "I was working out with him," he said, "... and he tweaked it again. The guy was hurt. So I don’t question his character — whether he wanted to play. I know he was beat up."

    Injuries aside, Boozer averaged 19.3 points and 10.5 rebounds in 354 games with the Jazz, establishing himself as a top-10 player in franchise history.

    "Tremendous success during the time he was here," Corbin said. "People talk about the games he was out because he was hurt. But the games he played — when he was healthy — he was a tremendous asset for us."

    Paul Millsap is the only player remaining on the Jazz’s active roster who was Boozer’s teammate.

    "I remember he was a great player for us — an All-Star player," Millsap said. "... I have great memories of him. We made it to the Western Conference finals with him that one year. So a lot of memories."

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55...tml.csp?page=1
    Boozer>>>>>>>Bargnani

    Oh yeah, and so much for all those horrible teammate comments, lack of motivation/effort.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Feb 15th, 2013 at 03:29 PM.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  7. #8707
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Agreed. I mean, Boozer is an upgrade, but the contract will limit our cap, and we're still going to be looking for a back-up guard.

    EDIT* Robinson would become the back-up guard, but no 3rd stringer, plus our point guards are score first.
    I for one am tired of waiting man. Fuck the cap, lets get players that can play and start winning.

    Nate has averaged close to 8 asts per game since he started playing heavy minutes with Chicago, and thats not counting passes that dont directly count towards the scoreboard. As a backup, 15-20mins per game, he's been averaging close to 5.

    Now that Lowry is picking up steam, i wouldnt mind having Nate as a backup. With those limited minutes you can control his shots and hero ball tendencies. Plus he's a good defender who throws his body around and can chase quick PGs.

  8. #8708
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    with the way the team is going maybe score first is the type of guard we need?

    So If im reading this right we take on the Boozer money and roll with this group into next season finally rid of Bargnani and trade Boozer next February who should be having a solid year with us and we get something long term by then? Im assuming Nate will be gone by Summer.. and we have the pg locked up for years to come Lowry/young prospect*/Vet* Something about Nate Robinson a Raptor doesnt sound right to me.

  9. #8709
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    with the way the team is going maybe score first is the type of guard we need?

    So If im reading this right we take on the Boozer money and roll with this group into next season finally rid of Bargnani and trade Boozer next February who should be having a solid year with us and we get something long term by then? Im assuming Nate will be gone by Summer.. and we have the pg locked up for years to come Lowry/young prospect*/Vet* Something about Nate Robinson a Raptor doesnt sound right to me.
    Get Bulls 1st rd pick and draft Trey Burke..... yeah boyyyyy!

    Win-Win-Win!
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  10. #8710
    Raptors Republic Rookie GoldenBaller's Avatar
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    This trade possibility has both pros and cons. So I personally really don't care if it happens, however I feel like we can get a better transaction throughout the off-season. Whatever happens I guess.

  11. #8711
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    with the way the team is going maybe score first is the type of guard we need?

    So If im reading this right we take on the Boozer money and roll with this group into next season finally rid of Bargnani and trade Boozer next February who should be having a solid year with us and we get something long term by then? Im assuming Nate will be gone by Summer.. and we have the pg locked up for years to come Lowry/young prospect*/Vet* Something about Nate Robinson a Raptor doesnt sound right to me.
    I dont really know why people hate score first PGs, frankly, i dont label them score first because theyre not trying to score first 100% of the time. Shouldnt it matter who takes the shot as long as the shot gets in the hole? Isnt that the objective of the game?

  12. #8712
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    I would do it. We'd have to do it now tho, we need a couple of days for Boozer and Nate to get some practice in with the team. IF we are going to pull the trigger that is.

  13. #8713
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    The main driver behind such a deal, from the Bulls side, would be the avoidance of paying the luxury tax this season. The Bulls currently sit about $3.7 million over the tax threshold and a Boozer and Robinson swap for Bargnani and Lucus III would save them a little over $4 million and get them under out from under a tax bill they do not want to pay. The Bulls, under the ownership of Jerry Reinsdorf, have long avoided paying the tax even though they’re one of the most profitable teams in the NBA and reside in a major market.
    This is not a money deal.

    The deal, though, would also be a sacrifice of talent. Though Bargnani has an intriguing offensive skill-set to pair with Rose (whenever he returns), he’s also no where near the rebounder that Boozer is and even less the defender (which is saying something). And while a Boozer move would open up more playing time for Taj Gibson, it’s not like head coach Tom Thibodeau has had any qualms about pulling Boozer in favor of Gibson and his better defense down the stretch of close games.

    http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...ver-they-want/
    Raps add talent.

    The bold is a good point. Replace Gibson's name with Amir.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  14. #8714
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Do it!!!

    On a different note, IM GOING TO THE HALL OF FAME!!! Woohoo!!!!

  15. #8715
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The last 4-5 seasons is not enough to get you to see the significant negative impact Bargnani has had on the Raptors? Commentators, who are paid by team ownership, calling him out doesn't spell it out? The GM calling him out doesn't spell it out? Teammates pissed off with his one dimensional, ineffective play is not spelling it out?
    You're still basing this move on getting rid of Bargnani. That's ludicrous, IMO. The Toronto Raptors do not NEED Carlos Boozer to be a more successful and talented team. They need something, but it doesn't have to be Carlos Boozer. There are much better ways to annually spend 15M a year on an old, declining PF.

    As for stats, read my sig for my view on that.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  16. #8716
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    I still wouldn't do it. I'd keep Bargnani.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

  17. #8717
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    I dont really know why people hate score first PGs, frankly, i dont label them score first because theyre not trying to score first 100% of the time. Shouldnt it matter who takes the shot as long as the shot gets in the hole? Isnt that the objective of the game?
    Exactly which is why I dont hate them, a guy like Calderon made the Ras suffer so much cause opposing defenders could cheat off him cause he isnt much of an offensive threat (he never penetrates) (no Homo) If we want to be up tempo we need someone to carry on what Lowry starts after the tip.

  18. #8718
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    You're still basing this move on getting rid of Bargnani. That's ludicrous, IMO. The Toronto Raptors do not NEED Carlos Boozer to be a more successful and talented team. They need something, but it doesn't have to be Carlos Boozer. There are much better ways to annually spend 15M a year on an old, declining PF.

    As for stats, read my sig for my view on that.
    Can you elaborate on what that "something" is?

    And can you elaborate on what you mean by "old"? KG is 37 and still playing. Nash is 38 still playing. Kobe, Kidd, Pierce, Allen, still playing heavy minutes and are a lot older than Boozer.

    Even if you dont use stats, you can clearly see that the Raps are in dire need of a rebounder and a bulky body to block the lanes. And Boozer has those qualities. And is available to acquire.

    Whats the issue? Cap space? Its just 2 years.

  19. #8719
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post

    The bold is a good point. Replace Gibson's name with Amir.
    This is one of the things that bugs me though. It's an easy move to swallow now because of the talent upgrade, but then you're left with a guy you're paying 15 million sit out the end of close games. In the end, we get basically all the same issues (at least on D, where he may even be worse as a man defender) as Bargnani, just a more efficient scorer and rebounder. I get your reasoning, because you compare Boozer to Bargnani so it's an upgrade. But I can't help but compare Boozer to other options(that I hope are there now or would be in the summer). I keep hoping another deal is out there...hopefully Milwaukee decides to blow it up. I would wait until the offseason to revisit this trade....but I hope BC at the very least has the patience to wait til the end of this trade season, since it really seems Chicago's not got any other options. And like we both agree on, he should really try to get a pick off them...really, they have no bargaining power, and as a cheapskate team, chances are they will end up trading that pick rather than add guaranteed money next season.

  20. #8720
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    This is one of the things that bugs me though. It's an easy move to swallow now because of the talent upgrade, but then you're left with a guy you're paying 15 million sit out the end of close games. In the end, we get basically all the same issues as Bargnani, just a more efficient scorer and rebounder. I get your reasoning, because you compare Boozer to Bargnani so it's an upgrade. But I can't help but compare Boozer to other options(that I hope are there now or would be in the summer). I keep hoping another deal is out there...hopefully Milwaukee decides to blow it up. I would wait until the offseason to revisit this trade....but I hope BC at the very least has the patience to wait til the end of this trade season, since it really seems Chicago's not got any other options. And like we both agree on, he should really try to get a pick off them...really, they have no bargaining power, and as a cheapskate team, chances are they will end up trading that pick rather than add guaranteed money next season.
    Im a little uneasy with that too, but how many close games are they really going to have that they would need boozer down the stretch?? If they had boozer, theyd probably aim to wrap the game sooner than later.

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