View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    8 6.50%
  • B

    47 38.21%
  • C

    29 23.58%
  • D

    18 14.63%
  • F

    21 17.07%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #8801
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote FoxMachine wrote: View Post
    wow people are still going hard on this thread.. agree to disagree
    Yeah, the desire to #tradeBargnani is just too much for me. Plus it is such a no-brainer for owners looking to improve the on court product.


    New stat porn for today:

    Boozer traded to Toronto would put him #1 on the team in Defensive Rating for this season at 100. Gay is #1 at 103 (small sample of course) and Amir is #2 at 104.

    Boozer traded to Toronto would put him #1 on the team in Defensive Win Shares for this season at 2.6. Current #1 is Amir at 1.7.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2013.html
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2013.html


    I can only hope Toronto is holding out for a pick.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  2. #8802
    Raptors Republic All-Star stretch's Avatar
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    Bargnani for anybody with a pulse, NOT TAKING A BAD CONTRACT in return.

  3. #8803
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    Bargnani for anybody with a pulse, NOT TAKING A BAD CONTRACT in return.
    Sadly the Raptors won't get a good contract in exchange for a bad contract. Even Gay is a bad contract.

    All the Raptors can hope for is someone better than Bargnani - which is not overly difficult to pull off.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  4. #8804
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Yeah, the desire to #tradeBargnani is just too much for me. Plus it is such a no-brainer for owners looking to improve the on court product.

    New stat porn for today:

    Boozer traded to Toronto would put him #1 on the team in Defensive Rating for this season at 100. Gay is #1 at 103 (small sample of course) and Amir is #2 at 104.

    Boozer traded to Toronto would put him #1 on the team in Defensive Win Shares for this season at 2.6. Current #1 is Amir at 1.7.
    While I can understand your desire to get rid of Bargnani, it saddens me to see you comparing players Defensive Ratings across teams this way.

  5. #8805
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Either way, something has to take place between now and Feb. 21st. If they found a new home for the Ikea monkey, I'm sure BC can find a new home for Andrea.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  6. #8806
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Sadly the Raptors won't get a good contract in exchange for a bad contract. Even Gay is a bad contract.

    All the Raptors can hope for is someone better than Bargnani - which is not overly difficult to pull off.
    Which might be a negative, because we'd have to take in players not good enough to get us over the hump - Wright, Hawes - good players steadily declining on big contracts - Boozer, Gasol, Gordon - or players who you don't know about, whether they will re-sign or even be a contributor for the long-term - Ilyasova, Millsap.

    Obviously there are positives there, and they most likely would be solid for our team, but with the above mentioned, it seems to really outweigh some other factors.

  7. #8807
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Chicago can most definitely afford Boozer. Top 3 in profit and franchise value. Ownership is just cheap. I'd be pissed if I were a Bulls fan.
    Let me re-phrase that.

    ...because they don't want to be able to afford Boozer.

  8. #8808
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Have you seen the last 2 games with 18 and 12 minutes? It can and will get worse I am afraid.
    Sure, it can always get worse. It probably won't though. The only way it could get worse is if he plays like crap and Casey keeps him on the floor. Seeing him get pulled last game after two poor defensive sequences in a row was fantastic - Casey did not tolerate any bull-shit lack of effort on the defensive end.

    I'm past believing that Bargnani will put it all together and become a good defensive player. However, when he is playing at his best, he has significantly more value than right now. I don't think any of the players whose names we've seen in the media would bring much to the team, or, if they would the financial cost would be too high.

    Ben Gordon - nope sorry, DeRozan, Ross, Fields.
    Boozer - not with that contract. Amir is playing great. We possibly need an upgrade at PF, but I don't think Boozer is the guy.
    Hawes - lol. Personal opinion, but I've never really liked him. I'd prefer to continue to develop Valanciunas and spell him off with Gray and Amir at the 5 occasionally (ie with Gay at 4).

    As long as Bargnani is on a tight leash, I'm happy. He is being held accountable for his play. Much as many folks would like to deny it, if he keeps coming off the bench there are going to be games when he's feeling it and he will light up the other team's second unit. Bargnani hot is a top 20 offensive player - going up against scrubs it would be a massacre. Pipe dream would be for him to settle into this role. He won't. Realistically, he gets hot every once in awhile and becomes a more consistent threat. This brings his value back up and then we can trade him .

    He doesn't have to go before the trade deadline as long as he isn't causing any harm. I'd say right now he isn't.

  9. #8809
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    New stat porn for today:

    Boozer traded to Toronto would put him #1 on the team in Defensive Rating for this season at 100. Gay is #1 at 103 (small sample of course) and Amir is #2 at 104
    Comical...is the only respectful way to describe what you did there. Using your method of comparison Varejao(109) would be the Raptors 6th "best" defender, only 1 point better than Bargnani(110).

    http://www.82games.com/1213/1213CLE1.HTM
    http://www.82games.com/1213/1213TOR1.HTM

  10. #8810
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote bobbybutler wrote: View Post
    Comical...is the only respectful way to describe what you did there. Using your method of comparison Varejao(109) would be the Raptors 6th "best" defender, only 1 point better than Bargnani(110).

    http://www.82games.com/1213/1213CLE1.HTM
    http://www.82games.com/1213/1213TOR1.HTM
    Yeah, not my greatest work.

    Still better than the argument of comparing 2 guys off court production across two different teams.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  11. #8811
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    None of Gordon, Boozer, or Hawes are a perfect fit for Toronto, true. But Colangelo now has about four players he can call around about. "Not interested in Bargnani? Well, are you interested in any of these other guys I could flip to you?" I've always said that Bargnani's market is determined not by his play at any given moment - at this point everyone knows who he is, and a hot streak or cold streak won't change that - but by the number of teams interested in making a deal. Sometimes, selling high doesn't mean selling when a player is playing well, it means selling when there are a lot of other teams desperate to make a deal. This is especially true of players with a long history of streaky play.

    If there are between 3 to 5 teams willing to make a deal for Bargnani (even if that deal is the other team's own overpaid or scrap-heap guys), that's about as active a market as Colangelo is ever going to find. He needs to spend the next few days turning over absolutely every rock looking for every ounce of value he can get back, anywhere in the league. I really do believe the time is now.

  12. #8812
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Ric Bucher's thoughts on the two most likely players to be traded: Josh Smith and ANDREA BARGNANI.

    As we enter the final days before the NBA trade deadline, the two most notable names expected to be moved are Josh
    Smith and Andrea Bargnani, according to league executives.

    ....

    As for Bargnani, it's simply a matter of both Andrea and the Raptors needing a fresh start without the other. The Bobcats' rumor makes sense from the standpoint that the franchise would be hard-pressed to land a talent of Bargnani's level on the free-agent market.
    http://sulia.com/channel/san-antonio...source=twitter
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  13. #8813
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Ric Bucher's thoughts on the two most likely players to be traded: Josh Smith and ANDREA BARGNANI.

    http://sulia.com/channel/san-antonio...source=twitter
    Meh, I do think Bargs gets dealt...I assume he means the Bobcats' rumor makes sense for the Bobcats...?? It is probably the worst rumor I've seen from the Raps perspective. I think BC is just shopping around, maybe even seeing if he can turn some of the offers into new scenarios like multi-team deals.

  14. #8814
    Raptors Republic Rookie GoldenBaller's Avatar
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    How about Andrea Bargnani for John Smith ;P hehehe, if only it were that easy...

  15. #8815
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Why would Bobcats want AB when they have BJ Mullens?

  16. #8816
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Why would Bobcats want AB when they have BJ Mullens?
    That is what I ask myself too.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  17. #8817
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Meh, I do think Bargs gets dealt...I assume he means the Bobcats' rumor makes sense for the Bobcats...?? It is probably the worst rumor I've seen from the Raps perspective. I think BC is just shopping around, maybe even seeing if he can turn some of the offers into new scenarios like multi-team deals.
    Maybe the Cats take on Kleiza as well?

    Plus one less year of dead contract?

    Personally, any deal with Charlotte better have one of Detroit's or Portland's first round picks coming back.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  18. #8818
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is what I ask myself too.
    Just checked his stats. I guess his having just a bad year than AB. I guess that says how bad they want Gordon out. Also their is doubt that AB has a higher skill level.

  19. #8819
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    When will the Bargnani nightmare be over I check everyday hoping to hear hes gone for a 1st round pick....

  20. #8820
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    @ Matt52:

    My bad, I did misinterpret. If I'm reading correctly now, you meant Chicago has more garbage time in games. Of course... but how is that relevant? I have already accepted that Boozer is an upgrade over Bargnani. Will he contribute to Toronto being more competitive? Only if the Raptors insist on giving Bargnani significant minutes. But that's not conceding anything since there is a third option which I already mentioned.

    Oh, that's impressive. So instead of seventh, he's been upgraded to essentially their worst starter and somehow, this is a point in his favour. Even if he were on the Raptors, there are players that should get playing time ahead of Boozer. I hope you realize you're advocating trading the worst player on the Raptors making $10 million a year for a bit player making $15 million a year. Neither player is really significant at all in the grand scheme of things, but one makes a more significant amount of money than the other. In a vacuum, of course I'd rather have Boozer than Bargnani. Nobody has really argued that one for one, Boozer is not a better player. But when neither player should really be seeing significant minutes on the floor, how does that help at all? You're acting like anybody wants to hold onto Bargnani; they (and I) would just rather not have a more expensive outcast instead.

    Just because Bargnani makes eight figures does not mean the Raptors are obligated to give him time on the court. If he's hurting the team, logically, he should be seeing no floor time. If Boozer is a below average contributor, plug in an average contributor - and this is the key - that is already on the Raptors. No need to pay an extra $4+ million to bring one in.

    And lol. Who's comparing "2 guys off court production across two different teams"? For someone who says facts are key, you sure do like to misrepresent and twist them. All I've said is Boozer is a consistently significant detriment defensively (yes, much like Bargnani), while not improving teams enough on offence to make up for it on both the Jazz and the Bulls.
    Last edited by TRX; Mon Feb 18th, 2013 at 01:03 AM.

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