View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #9361
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    One other option is to use the stretch provision to buy out Kleiza, dropping his salary down to 1.53 million for the next three years, which gives you some room below the tax threshold for now, and yet still gives you the flexibility to use the amnesty provision on Bargnani next summer if things drag on and no trade emerges. Any advantage to amnestying Bargnani only really comes next summer when we have other expirings and additional flexibility, so I don't see a benefit to amnestying him this summer.
    Amnesty for contracts signed before CBa.

    Stretch for contracts after.

    Kleiza cannot be stretched.

  2. #9362
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Amnesty for contracts signed before CBa.

    Stretch for contracts after.

    Kleiza cannot be stretched.
    Ah, damnit, looks like you're right. I misread the FAQ. So we could still negotiate a buyout with him, but there's no way to adjust the cap hit except by using the amnesty.

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  4. #9363
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    The correct option is sit tight. Bargnani's value is at an all time low. If you try to trade him, you'll get next to nothing. If you amnesty him, the next team that signs him will sign him for next to nothing (which means MLSE will be paying the major portion of his salary for the next two years).

    You sit tight and wait. You don't have to play him much, or at all. At worst he becomes an expiring contract which is much more valuable than him right now. The whole "We've waited 7 years" argument doesn't apply here because now, the expectations are zero, and all we're waiting for is some trade value.
    This is what I voted for. "If you amnesty him, the next team that signs him will sign him for next to nothing (which means MLSE will be paying the major portion of his salary for the next two years)"

    I don't see Bargs as poison if he comes off the bench. He could provide some utility.

  5. #9364
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    This is what I voted for. "If you amnesty him, the next team that signs him will sign him for next to nothing (which means MLSE will be paying the major portion of his salary for the next two years)"

    I don't see Bargs as poison if he comes off the bench. He could provide some utility.
    The Raptors play even better when he is injured. Bargnani is more futility than utility.

  6. #9365
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    Does this make sense for either team?
    http://<br /> http://espn.go.com/nba...radeId=brzgcte
    In this deal I would HOPE to get back our first rounder from OKC and perhaps give them an "option" to swap first rounder once in next say 3 years (top 5 to top 10 protected).
    WRT above suggestions Sacramento (ONLY if Thompson & Jimmer were included) makes sense;
    Washington (Bargnani for Okafor);
    Bargnani for Wallace -No way;
    Bargnani for Amare -No way;
    Sacramento is not too crazy about Evans, so Evans S/T, Jimmer for Bargnani & Ross? Why would Sacramento do this? You are asking logic from a team that gave up (and gave away) 5th overall pick after what 30 games?
    There was some talk about Minnesota: Williams & 1 of guards (their choice) for Bargnani? They dont want Bargnani. Include LA & Gasol.
    Biedrins & first for Bargnani?
    In the end I would hate to amnesty him or trade him for a always shitty contract (either Gordon, 1 lousy, 1 injured, Wallace). Have him come off the bench; If his plays improves (he must have some bloody pride) -then you might get something later.
    Last edited by Mapko; Sat May 11th, 2013 at 01:57 AM.

  7. #9366
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    Ive went over this thread and i gotta say....there is only 1 option. the amnesty is going to be used on kleiza which means that bargs is not going to get amnestied, and I think this option is pretty dumb to use on him. As far as the trades go....every trade that was posted I am completely against. I dont want hayes or jimmer, or gerald wallace (omg- look at his contract) novak and camby would do nothing in Toronto. I am not defending bargs, I thought we should of traded after he had that great year when bosh left. But right now I would keep him on the squad. He knows and the system, he knows the players, and I am confident he is going to work in the off season to prevent another nightmare season. He had by far the worst season of his career last year and I am willing to give him a chance next year. His stock could get higher by the trade deadline, and worst case scenario we keep him until his contract is expiring or try to trade him at the deadline. both bargs and landry expire on the same year so we could package them together. I think everybody is making a deal just to get him out of town and nobody cares what we get back. I understand the team played better without him on the floor but he still needs to be viewed has an asset, and you just dont give assests away in this league.

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  9. #9367
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    This is what I voted for. "If you amnesty him, the next team that signs him will sign him for next to nothing (which means MLSE will be paying the major portion of his salary for the next two years)"

    I don't see Bargs as poison if he comes off the bench. He could provide some utility.
    I don't believe he's useful to use anymore, even if he does play well.

    Like I said in my first post, he is clearly not part of our long-term plan, so why give valuable minutes to him instead of JV, Amir or Ross?
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  10. #9368
    Raptors Republic Rookie feet85's Avatar
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    3 Way Trade with the Bobcats and T'Wolves, Bobcats get: Andrea, Raptors get: Derrick Williams and Luke T'Wolves get: AA and Ben Gordon, Why the bobcats do the trade: They really need scoring from their bigs and they want to trade Ben Gordon badly, Why the Wolves do the trade: They get 2 spacing and scoring from their wings which they need desperately and lineup that consists of rubio, Ben Gordon, AK47, K-Love and Pek is better than what they had last season, why thee raptors do the trade: The get rid of Bargs and they get that backup pass first pg we need we get a prospect big that can hopefully give us production like Eddy D did. It's a win-win-win for all teams involved
    #BringBackUzoh

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  12. #9369
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    I don't believe he's useful to use anymore, even if he does play well.

    Like I said in my first post, he is clearly not part of our long-term plan, so why give valuable minutes to him instead of JV, Amir or Ross?
    We have seen Bargs come into a game and hit three 3 pointers in three minutes. Those times occurred when he was relaxed, and pretty much unconscious. Coming off the bench to do that, as opposed to being counted on to produce 15 - 20 points a night, and doing it against another teams bench players would be a useful contribution. If he only went out when JV and Fields were on the floor, providing good help defense, he could actually help win some games.

    The trick would be to use him in circumstances where he would help more than he would hurt. Playing against second tier PF's, and supported by useful help defenders might be the circumstances I am talking about. Just throwing it out there. My preference is to see him traded, but not to trade him just for the sake of trading. If any trade hurts more than it helps, then keep him, and put him in a role where he might be of some use.

    We have seen numerous players leave the Raps and become useful contributors because they found themselves in situations where they were not expected to do more than they were capable of. In retrospect, Bargs should probably have been drafted 12th, in which case he might have become a reliable 6th or 7th man, and maybe found his way into a starting role after being forced to work for minutes.

  13. #9370
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    We have seen Bargs come into a game and hit three 3 pointers in three minutes. Those times occurred when he was relaxed, and pretty much unconscious. Coming off the bench to do that, as opposed to being counted on to produce 15 - 20 points a night, and doing it against another teams bench players would be a useful contribution. If he only went out when JV and Fields were on the floor, providing good help defense, he could actually help win some games.

    The trick would be to use him in circumstances where he would help more than he would hurt. Playing against second tier PF's, and supported by useful help defenders might be the circumstances I am talking about. Just throwing it out there. My preference is to see him traded, but not to trade him just for the sake of trading. If any trade hurts more than it helps, then keep him, and put him in a role where he might be of some use.

    We have seen numerous players leave the Raps and become useful contributors because they found themselves in situations where they were not expected to do more than they were capable of. In retrospect, Bargs should probably have been drafted 12th, in which case he might have become a reliable 6th or 7th man, and maybe found his way into a starting role after being forced to work for minutes.
    I thought the assumption that Bargnani could be a scorer off the bench was more or less resolved with his terrible performance this year. It coincides with his terrible perfomance off the bench in his first 2 years in the league. Its possible he could fall into that role, but more than likely he will be who he's always been, an inefficient jump shooter who doesn't rebound or defend, just in a limited role instead.

    As for players leaving Toronto and being contributors elsewhere. That ofcourse may happen to Bargnani aswell, but I'm not sure why it matters. If he's not performing here he is offering nothing to this team, so not moving him because he may perform elsewhere is just cutting off your nose to spite your face. On top of that, alot of the guys who were moved and have offered value elsewhere, were quality players while here. Reggie, Jarret Jack, Bayless just to name a few... all were effective players here. Doing the same thing on their respective teams that they were doing here. Some Toronto fans thought they were underperforming or underproducing, but really it was the GM and his inability to collect talent and build a team that was the problem.

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  15. #9371
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    Quote geo wrote: View Post
    Ive went over this thread and i gotta say....there is only 1 option. the amnesty is going to be used on kleiza which means that bargs is not going to get amnestied, and I think this option is pretty dumb to use on him. As far as the trades go....every trade that was posted I am completely against. I dont want hayes or jimmer, or gerald wallace (omg- look at his contract) novak and camby would do nothing in Toronto. I am not defending bargs, I thought we should of traded after he had that great year when bosh left. But right now I would keep him on the squad. He knows and the system, he knows the players, and I am confident he is going to work in the off season to prevent another nightmare season. He had by far the worst season of his career last year and I am willing to give him a chance next year. His stock could get higher by the trade deadline, and worst case scenario we keep him until his contract is expiring or try to trade him at the deadline. both bargs and landry expire on the same year so we could package them together. I think everybody is making a deal just to get him out of town and nobody cares what we get back. I understand the team played better without him on the floor but he still needs to be viewed has an asset, and you just dont give assets away in this league.
    I agree 100%. Make a trade IFF and only iff it makes sense. At least we know what we have with Bargs -Usually a decent shooter/scorer, decent 1 on 1 defender & very poor rebounder & help defender. Almost a perfect 6th man.
    Now, if he "picks it up", say by trade deadline, you can always make a deal. If not next year he is an expiring deal.
    Trading him for, for instance Ty Thomas -guy was NEVER any good. Why?
    Eric Gordon -often injured, what is the point (IMO Demar is a better OVERALL player now and will give you 2500-3000 minutes per season);
    D Williams (Minnie), Jason Thompson, are at least young players who have a chance of getting better.
    WRT Boozer -an interesting scenario. Great season and a so-so playoffs AGAIN (poor D). Would Bulls be desperate & take Bargs AND KLeza to unload Booz? Prob not.
    Gasol for Bargs and (Fields or ?)? Is that the best LA can do? They have to make a change.

  16. #9372
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    ...Reggie, Jarret Jack, Bayless just to name a few... all were effective players here. Doing the same thing on their respective teams that they were doing here....
    Haven't checked the stats, but to my eye, all those players improved their games by playing within their roles when they moved. They may not have had the opportunity in TO when they were here, or they may have been still learning their roles.

  17. #9373
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Haven't checked the stats, but to my eye, all those players improved their games by playing within their roles when they moved. They may not have had the opportunity in TO when they were here, or they may have been still learning their roles.
    Jack & Bayless both continue to excel in coming off the bench (same as in To). Unfortunately both wanted to be starters (not so good at it). One or both will cash in on their success with good contract & possibly a starters job. Good luck to new teams.
    Does Darren Collison ring a bell? Same scenario. Why aren't there more Manu Ginobilis? Good enough to start for ANY teams, but content doing whatever takes to win a game.
    AS for Reggie: He was a decent compliment to Bargs in To (one rebounds & no scoring, other -scores & couldn't/wouldn't rebound). In his last season in To, while Reggie was healthy, this actually worked decent (a lot of other peaces missing).
    Another name: Marco Belinelli -not a clue why it did not work in To & in Chicago he is good.

  18. #9374
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    Default bargnani for Perkins and our draft pick

    Quote Mapko wrote: View Post
    Does this make sense for either team?
    http://<br /> http://espn.go.com/nb...radeId=brzgcte
    In this deal I would HOPE to get back our first rounder from OKC and perhaps give them an "option" to swap first rounder once in next say 3 years (top 5 to top 10 protected).
    WRT above suggestions Sacramento (ONLY if Thompson & Jimmer were included) makes sense;
    Washington (Bargnani for Okafor);
    Bargnani for Wallace -No way;
    Bargnani for Amare -No way;
    Sacramento is not too crazy about Evans, so Evans S/T, Jimmer for Bargnani & Ross? Why would Sacramento do this? You are asking logic from a team that gave up (and gave away) 5th overall pick after what 30 games?
    There was some talk about Minnesota: Williams & 1 of guards (their choice) for Bargnani? They dont want Bargnani. Include LA & Gasol.
    Biedrins & first for Bargnani?
    In the end I would hate to amnesty him or trade him for a always shitty contract (either Gordon, 1 lousy, 1 injured, Wallace). Have him come off the bench; If his plays improves (he must have some bloody pride) -then you might get something later.
    Please see http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bdccz8t (sorry can't read the trade mapko put up). Give up Bargnani for Perkins and Horton plus our draft pick. This works because Perkins is useless to OKC and because Bargnani is a better defender than Perkins. Bargnani has more potential to OKC than any potential draft pick.

  19. #9375
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Haven't checked the stats, but to my eye, all those players improved their games by playing within their roles when they moved. They may not have had the opportunity in TO when they were here, or they may have been still learning their roles.
    Their numbers are actually very similar in Toronto compared to their respective teams right now. (one exception being Jack's 13 games - whats the deal with this number as a sample size anyways? - in the season he was traded 2010/11)

    Bayless:

    2010/11 - 16.1pts 4.0rbs 6.4asts 1.0stls 2.9tovs .479eFG% .545 ts% 14.8PER .065WS/48
    2011/12 - 18.0pts 3.4rbs 6.0asts 1.2stls 2.7tovs .504eFG% .561 ts% 17.7PER .139WS/48
    2012/13 - 14.1pts 3.6rbs 5.4asts 1.2stls 2.4tovs .476eFG% .514 ts% 13.5PER .108WS/48

    Jack

    2009/10 - 14.9pts 3.6rbs 6.6asts 1.0stls 2.6tovs .542eFG% .599 ts% 16.3PER .102WS/48
    2012/13 - 15.7pts 3.7rbs 6.7asts 0.9stls 2.4tovs .499eFG% .542 ts% 15.9PER .115WS/48


    Marco Belinelli -not a clue why it did not work in To & in Chicago he is good
    from a statistical stand point, this is Marco's worst year since his rookie season.

    Perhaps this explains the discrepency - its all perception.

    They are on playoff teams, and therefore they are seen as 'better' players. When really they just have better teammates that help them win more games rather than teammates that (arguably) help lose games......

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  21. #9376
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Their numbers are actually very similar in Toronto compared to their respective teams right now. (one exception being Jack's 13 games - whats the deal with this number as a sample size anyways? - in the season he was traded 2010/11)

    Bayless:

    2010/11 - 16.1pts 4.0rbs 6.4asts 1.0stls 2.9tovs .479eFG% .545 ts% 14.8PER .065WS/48
    2011/12 - 18.0pts 3.4rbs 6.0asts 1.2stls 2.7tovs .504eFG% .561 ts% 17.7PER .139WS/48
    2012/13 - 14.1pts 3.6rbs 5.4asts 1.2stls 2.4tovs .476eFG% .514 ts% 13.5PER .108WS/48

    Jack

    2009/10 - 14.9pts 3.6rbs 6.6asts 1.0stls 2.6tovs .542eFG% .599 ts% 16.3PER .102WS/48
    2012/13 - 15.7pts 3.7rbs 6.7asts 0.9stls 2.4tovs .499eFG% .542 ts% 15.9PER .115WS/48




    from a statistical stand point, this is Marco's worst year since his rookie season.

    Perhaps this explains the discrepency - its all perception.

    They are on playoff teams, and therefore they are seen as 'better' players. When really they just have better teammates that help them win more games rather than teammates that (arguably) help lose games......

    Well there you go. So much for the "eye test."

  22. #9377
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    I think Bargnani will bounce back and revive his career but not here in Toronto. It'll be nice to wait until he starts playing better(which he's very much capable of) but considering what's happened with him lately, it most probably won't happen here. The longer he's hung on to, the worse it'll get for both Bargnani and the Raps. The most sensible thing to do IMO is despite his falling stock, trade him for the best possible return.

    A couple of ideas:

    1) Toronto/Utah
    Jonas V and Bargnani for E Kanter and P Millsap(S & T).

    2) Toronto/Detroit
    Bargnani and 2nd rounder for R Stuckey(back up PG) and V Kravtsov.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  23. #9378
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    Default Bargnani needs to go.

    Hey guys. i know my first post got me in some hot water, but this needs to happen. Bargs doesn't fit in our new plans, and he needs a fresh start. I'd like to after a back-up guy with some salary and a 1st rounder, but who needs a PF who can attack in the paint, make smart defensive choices, pass the ball and rebound?

  24. #9379
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    Stuckey is awful I want no part of him in Tdot hes not a PG either hes a small 2 that cant shoot. Mentioning JV in trades is blasphemy.

  25. #9380
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Stuckey is awful I want no part of him in Tdot hes not a PG either hes a small 2 that cant shoot. Mentioning JV in trades is blasphemy.
    But he is also an expiring contract this year and better than any other option Toronto has at backup PG.

    I would trade Bargnani for Stuckey in a heart beat.
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