View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #9441
    Raptors Republic Rookie symbot's Avatar
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    Great thread.

    I voted 'keep'.

    Barg's trade value is at an all time low right now. The solution is to bring him off the bench and play him 15-20 minutes per night against bigs that he can defend 1 on 1 and when he presents match-up problems for the other team. When Bargs is on the floor the rule must be "NEVER DOUBLE TEAM AND GO UNDER ALL SCREENS" so he never has to rotate and he rarely has to help. This defensive philosophy might work against some 2nd units.

  2. #9442
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    The logical choice for the amnesty clause is Kleiza. Unless management knows for a fact that they can't get back anything of value, they should not amnesty Bargnani for nothing.

  3. #9443
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default "All roads lead to Rome"

    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    Carlos Boozer fits perfectly in this mold, especially because he addresses some of our issues such as lack of inside scoring, rebounding, toughness, and leadership.
    He's never seemed all that tough when guarding the interior paint. If anything he plays soft defense. You know what, he would fit in fine.

    All kidding aside, Boozer would be an upgrade but there isn't much future there. Cutting Bargnani now or trading for Boozer will lead to the same end result in a couple years. Until we get there it will be an easier product to swallow though.

    If the Bulls did this trade it would be because they see something long term in Bargnani that we don't...

    Quote Michel G wrote: View Post
    The logical choice for the amnesty clause is Kleiza. Unless management knows for a fact that they can't get back anything of value, they should not amnesty Bargnani for nothing.
    Maybe. The Raptors will still pay him regardless. He's only owed $4.6M in an expiring year. It might be worth more to them to sit him down if they have no use, wait until the trade deadline and then market his $4.6M as an expiring contract to teams looking for added flexibility for the 2014 FA period. Who knows, maybe the Raptors go get back a pick or some young prospects if they tossed in some cash as well. They won't be players next year in FA; Bargnani's $12M, Derozan's $9.5M and Landry's $8.5M have seen to that.

  4. #9444
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I think Boozer will still be on the table. Looking at www.shamsports.com, the Bulls appear to be about $4M over the cap this year. They have never once ever paid luxury tax before.

    Without any options picked up for next year, they already have a payroll of $77.9M and even if the luxury tax goes up to $5M, they would be above the cap. So they could be hit with the repeater tax.

    The Bulls have the amnesty clause at their disposal but I'm not sure if they would be willing to just amnesty Boozer without getting any kind of asset for him (one can argue that Bargnani is not an asset, but others may feel differently in the league). Outside of Boozer who can they amnesty that would get them below the luxury tax and still have a competitive team? I believe their only amnesty candidates are Noah, Boozer, Deng, and Korver, and I don't think the Bulls would be willing to amnesty any one of those other guys.

    I do think if the next Toronto GM pursued this deal it would be done. But I'm not sure if the Toronto brass would want Boozer on the team, as then they'd be dipping into luxury tax, and is that worth it for a team just scrambling to make it into the playoffs?
    Hoopshype has different numbers with Rip Hamilton on a team option for next year. http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

    Maybe they still move Boozer, but the idea he is replaced by a soft player when the Bulls have developed a harder edge now doesn't fit.

  5. #9445
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Those in favor of not being caught empty handed

    Between "trade him now" and "trade him later", it's almost a dead heat.

  6. #9446
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Hoopshype has different numbers with Rip Hamilton on a team option for next year. http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

    Maybe they still move Boozer, but the idea he is replaced by a soft player when the Bulls have developed a harder edge now doesn't fit.
    My understanding is team option with $1m guaranteed.

  7. #9447
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I merged two threads due to redundancy.

  8. #9448
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Starting points

    If they trade him, here are a couple starting points to build around in a trade:

    Toronto/Charlotte
    Bargnani for Thomas and Haywood

    Toronto/Detroit
    Bargnani for Charlie V and Kravtsov

    Toronto/Washington
    Bargnani & Gray for Okafor

    Toronto/Minnesota
    Bargnani for Kirilenko

    I purposely targeted lotto teams. They're probably more willing to roll the dice on Bargnani rebounding (both figuratively and literally).

    If they could land a guy like Okafor or AK47(assuming he picks up the option) that would be a good short term upgrade. Neither guy fits perfectly with what they currently have but neither does Bargnani. At least these two guys offer up help to deficiencies.

  9. #9449
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    All kidding aside, Boozer would be an upgrade but there isn't much future there. Cutting Bargnani now or trading for Boozer will lead to the same end result in a couple years. Until we get there it will be an easier product to swallow though.

    If the Bulls did this trade it would be because they see something long term in Bargnani that we don't...
    Considering the team's roster build and the contracts of the players, the future is the eventual expiring contract in 2015/2016 (correct me if mistaken) when the other guys like Fields, Gay, etc. eventually expire. That's about $43 million off the books with just those 3 expiring.

  10. #9450
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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    Considering the team's roster build and the contracts of the players, the future is the eventual expiring contract in 2015/2016 (correct me if mistaken) when the other guys like Fields, Gay, etc. eventually expire. That's about $43 million off the books with just those 3 expiring.
    To elaborate, when the likely peak of this team comes around in 2015/2016, this team will be able to evaluate whether or not Gay, and co. is deserving to be re-signed, and if this team has had any continuity and success when that time comes around. So, either this team goes into a full rebuild with hopefully a lottery pick, major financial cap flexibility, and young assets/players on the roster i.e. Acy, Valanciunas, Ross.

  11. #9451
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    Considering the team's roster build and the contracts of the players, the future is the eventual expiring contract in 2015/2016 (correct me if mistaken) when the other guys like Fields, Gay, etc. eventually expire. That's about $43 million off the books with just those 3 expiring.
    They didn't pull that Gay trade as a short term option. He should be viewed as a long term core player regardless of what his contract looks like right now. It's clear he's a really good player and the next GM should see that.

    My point with Boozer is that there is no debating he's a short term stop gap. What they need to be doing is adding guys they see fitting in long term. You can't build a strong cohesiveness with mass turnover ever 1-2 years. It's a crazy, stupid setup in Toronto. It's been like this for far too long. There should be more of an emphasis on finding the Jose Calderon's, the guys who can adapt to change, the good human beings who put the team first, who make sacrifices at times.

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  13. #9452
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Did you watch the Bulls in the playoffs? And if you did, do you really think that the Bulls are moving Boozer for Andrea? WE think Andrea is soft. Bargnani isn't tough enough to sit on the Chicago bench in street clothes. These playoffs completely changed the style of the Bulls. They may like Andrea, but he is no longer a fit there.
    What I saw was a few very good games in first round, and mostly non existent in 2nd.
    Many a times he was on bench in crucial situations near the end due to poor D.
    I firmly believe that deal is on the table if we want it.

  14. #9453
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    theres a new primo commercial without andrea.
    oh thank god

  15. #9454
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    Now that Colangelo is gone. I think amnestying AB is now pretty realistic. I would do it if they can't get anything in return for him.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

  16. #9455
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    Quote Mapko wrote: View Post
    What I saw was a few very good games in first round, and mostly non existent in 2nd.
    Many a times he was on bench in crucial situations near the end due to poor D.
    I firmly believe that deal is on the table if we want it.
    And why would a physical team want Bargnani? Didn't I already explain this in another reply? Why do I have to restate myself? Will Boozer be traded? Maybe. Will they want a player who is completely counter to the type of basketball they are trying to play? Unlikely.

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  18. #9456
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    They didn't pull that Gay trade as a short term option. He should be viewed as a long term core player regardless of what his contract looks like right now. It's clear he's a really good player and the next GM should see that.

    My point with Boozer is that there is no debating he's a short term stop gap. What they need to be doing is adding guys they see fitting in long term. You can't build a strong cohesiveness with mass turnover ever 1-2 years. It's a crazy, stupid setup in Toronto. It's been like this for far too long. There should be more of an emphasis on finding the Jose Calderon's, the guys who can adapt to change, the good human beings who put the team first, who make sacrifices at times.
    You can't have it both ways though. What team is going to take Bargnani's corpse off the Raptors' hands AND give you back a core piece that you can pencil into the rotation for the next 5-6 years as well?
    The reality is the return on him is practically guaranteed to be something less than desirable, whether you define it as a stop-gap, a player that needs a "change of scenery", or some other team's unwanted trash.

  19. #9457
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Colangelo still believe in Bargnani
    http://translate.google.com/translat...-bargnani.html
    Toronto Raptors 'Club Director General lost Bryan Colangelo said not to change anything you have done before relating to the striker of the Italian Andrea Bargnani , and still believe it.
    Nevertheless, a few days for the Raptors lost the post of head of Colangelo said further believing in Italian.

    From now on, the club president of the interim successor Colangelo said that if he could turn back time, in terms of Bargnani, would not change anything.
    "We had the opportunity to exchange Bargnani before, but could not control the injury aspect. This season, he suffered several serious injuries, but Andrea is still valuable as a basketball player, "- said Colangelo.
    Used google translator, lazy but understandable.


    Well this just makes me feel that Tim did the right move... BC was still planning with Bargnani included in his plans...
    #FREE

  20. #9458
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote RandomGuy wrote: View Post
    Colangelo still believe in Bargnani
    http://translate.google.com/translat...-bargnani.html

    Used google translator, lazy but understandable.


    Well this just makes me feel that Tim did the right move... BC was still planning with Bargnani included in his plans...

    No worries about the translation as these quotes came from Tuesday's media conference call. Colangelo also went on to say that a change of scenery would benefit both Bargnani and the Raptors.

    Colangelo's never been one to publicly admit his mistakes.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  21. #9459
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    Well but in this specific case it would rather increase his reputation. Well at least now I understand what Tim meant by saying that organization need fresh, non personal approach and view to the whole situation.
    #FREE

  22. #9460
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    Andrea Banana needs to go, that is all.
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

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