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  • Nick wrote: View Post
    Didn't say he hated him. I agree with his last segment also, but I think the Raps in general had bad team defence and not just Bargs. He can fill it up with the Best big men in the league, with CB4 gone now, the team dynamics are going to change immensely. Its not even bball knowledge, its just general logic that Bargs is going to have a better year. Thats why I don't get why people are writing him off without seeing what the new Raps product looks like. I agree with Buddahfan, his defence (especially one on one) has gotten better every year. I saw him stand and block Dwight Howard last year when he was trying to cram it. It was a clean block. Of course he wasn't doing this all the time, but how many other centres around the league have the potential (strength) to stand block Howard? He's still got lots of room to grow, but this is the perfect situation for him. Defensive big men aren't a rarity, but to have a centre with a pure stroke like Bargs is.
    I guess it's human nature, to criticize... HAHA. Well I just don't get why people think it's HIS fault that he was number one pick and was handed 10 million a year for the next 5 years. But he is crucial for our team, and I even wrote a few long ass posts, and I mean long, about how he might not be the best player but he is the most important, at the moment.

    Comment


    • Tim W. wrote: View Post
      I'm not actually a big fan of Bosh and don't have any love for the Heat. And I do have one question, if Bargnani was traded away, would YOU still be Raptor fan?
      That would never happen.....would it?

      Comment


      • Nick wrote: View Post
        Didn't say he hated him. I agree with his last segment also, but I think the Raps in general had bad team defence and not just Bargs. He can fill it up with the Best big men in the league, with CB4 gone now, the team dynamics are going to change immensely. Its not even bball knowledge, its just general logic that Bargs is going to have a better year. Thats why I don't get why people are writing him off without seeing what the new Raps product looks like. I agree with Buddahfan, his defence (especially one on one) has gotten better every year. I saw him stand and block Dwight Howard last year when he was trying to cram it. It was a clean block. Of course he wasn't doing this all the time, but how many other centres around the league have the potential (strength) to stand block Howard? He's still got lots of room to grow, but this is the perfect situation for him. Defensive big men aren't a rarity, but to have a centre with a pure stroke like Bargs is.
        I have four problems with Bargnani's offense

        1. He doesn't get to the foul line nearly often enough.
        2. He takes to many long shots when the Raptors offense is not properly located/positioned leading to a lot of easy run outs by their opponents when Bargnani misses.
        3. As I recall from last season he is strictly a right handed player. Hell, even Johnson used his left handed dribble to take his man off the dribble for a basket. Maybe Bargnani needs to practice some of those every high school kid does it basketball drills.
        4. I think his three point shooting percentage is too low for someone that takes as many three ball shots as Bargnani does. I would like to see him up his percentage closer to 40% on his threes if he is going to continue to take that many three ball shots in a game. Being tall is no excuse. If you can't make them at a high rate don't take so many of them. He doesn't need to take that many to spread the floor. In fact if he took less of them per game but was more accurate he would spread the floor even more than he does now.
        Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

        Memories some so sweet, indeed

        Larger Photo of the avatar



        “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
        Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

        Comment


        • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
          I have four problems with Bargnani's offense

          1. He doesn't get to the foul line nearly often enough.
          2. He takes to many long shots when the Raptors offense is not properly located/positioned leading to a lot of easy run outs by their opponents when Bargnani misses.
          3. As I recall from last season he is strictly a right handed player. Hell, even Johnson used his left handed dribble to take his man off the dribble for a basket. Maybe Bargnani needs to practice some of those every high school kid does it basketball drills.
          4. I think his three point shooting percentage is too low for someone that takes as many three ball shots as Bargnani does. I would like to see him up his percentage closer to 40% on his threes if he is going to continue to take that many three ball shots in a game. Being tall is no excuse. If you can't make them at a high rate don't take so many of them. He doesn't need to take that many to spread the floor. In fact if he took less of them per game but was more accurate he would spread the floor even more than he does now.
          5. Why doesn't he run past his defenders more often. He did it quite a few times in the season. And on one-on-one situations he should take advantage of his size/speed. He can get passed the defender and nearly everytime he did it he got a sick dunk and a huge cheer.

          6. He does his pump-fake jab step run one foot shoot mid range jumper waay too much. It was effective the first time he did it. Now it's 1/3.

          But I could make a huge list of his positives. LOL. My first post EVER on this forum was a post that took up nearly half of the page. HAHAHA. About Bargnani of course

          Comment


          • JoePanini wrote: View Post
            I guess it's human nature, to criticize... HAHA. Well I just don't get why people think it's HIS fault that he was number one pick and was handed 10 million a year for the next 5 years. But he is crucial for our team, and I even wrote a few long ass posts, and I mean long, about how he might not be the best player but he is the most important, at the moment.
            I understand where I am. This is a public forum where everybody is allowed their own opinions, I'm totally cool with that. I guess it just might not be for me. I can't wrap my head around why Raptors fans dislike the best player on their own team?! I wish I knew how to create your own thread, because I really would like to know "Why do people dislike Bargs?" I NEVER heard any of these criticisms until Bosh was gone, and all of a sudden Bargs is the scapegoat..? If he has a solid year, these guys who wanted him gone are going to look really dumb, because they are unable to rise above the main stream pereception and evaluate Andrea for themselves.

            Comment


            • Nick wrote: View Post
              I understand where I am. This is a public forum where everybody is allowed their own opinions, I'm totally cool with that. I guess it just might not be for me. I can't wrap my head around why Raptors fans dislike the best player on their own team?! I wish I knew how to create your own thread, because I really would like to know "Why do people dislike Bargs?" I NEVER heard any of these criticisms until Bosh was gone, and all of a sudden Bargs is the scapegoat..? If he has a solid year, these guys who wanted him gone are going to look really dumb, because they are unable to rise above the main stream pereception and evaluate Andrea for themselves.
              I'll help you create your own thread LOL You go on Everything Raptors. Then top left corner there is a blue button which says start new thread or something. But yeah, I just hope he plays well and Raps play well.

              Comment


              • Nick wrote: View Post
                I understand where I am. This is a public forum where everybody is allowed their own opinions, I'm totally cool with that. I guess it just might not be for me. I can't wrap my head around why Raptors fans dislike the best player on their own team?! I wish I knew how to create your own thread, because I really would like to know "Why do people dislike Bargs?" I NEVER heard any of these criticisms until Bosh was gone, and all of a sudden Bargs is the scapegoat..? If he has a solid year, these guys who wanted him gone are going to look really dumb, because they are unable to rise above the main stream pereception and evaluate Andrea for themselves.
                I just don't think that Bargnani is the best player on the team.

                Who do I think is?
                Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                Memories some so sweet, indeed

                Larger Photo of the avatar



                “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                Comment


                • JoePanini wrote: View Post
                  I'll help you create your own thread LOL You go on Everything Raptors. Then top left corner there is a blue button which says start new thread or something. But yeah, I just hope he plays well and Raps play well.
                  Haha thanks buddy, appreciate it!.. With all of the criticisms you guys listed, I think allot of them had to do with the presence of CB4 being their number one guy on the depth chart. Its hard to have your top two guys on the depth chart be your PF and C, as want the ball majority of the time to be in the hands of your top depth chart guys. This is why all successful teams have a top guy as a guard (Ideally PG) and a top guy as a big man. I think now that Bargs is the go to big guy he will utilize the paint more, because he has to in order to establish the inside presence that will be necessary to win.

                  Comment


                  • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                    I just don't think that Bargnani is the best player on the team.

                    Who do I think is?
                    At the moment I think you think our best player is Kleiza.

                    Comment


                    • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                      I just don't think that Bargnani is the best player on the team.

                      Who do I think is?
                      Kleiza or Amir. You always post up stats of Amir, I think you might have a thing for him HAHA LOL

                      Comment


                      • Nick wrote: View Post
                        At the moment I think you think our best player is Kleiza.
                        100%. Might be best scorer, one of the best rebounders, best overall player, has great experience, is a natural leader on the court, has won ALOT with national team and Olympiakos, and was pretty decent in Denver. Has a good range, big and strong, he is just better than everyone else.

                        Comment


                        • Nick wrote: View Post
                          There's no way you would be saying that had he stayed in Memphis. We both know that Gasols name would never, ever be in the conversation of a defensive big man if he didn't go to L.A. Memphis traded him for a bag of mixed nuts because he wasn't known as a premier big man around the league. What happened? Due to "good coaching" Gasol has become the best pf in the league. I would agree that most players in the league have the potential to play good defense, the two reason this potential is never met:

                          1) Coaching
                          2) Bad attitude
                          Try not to say what I would say, please. When Gasol was in Memphis, I actually had discussion with people about trading for Gasol. The ONLY reason I didn't like it was because I didn't feel he was a center and the Raptors had just drafted Bosh. Gasol lead Memphis to 50, 49 and 45 wins and were a half decent defensive team, in part because of Gasol. As for coaching, he had Hubie Brown and Mike Fratello as his coach in Memphis, two very good coaches who know a thing or two about teaching defense.

                          I realize that saying that Gasol was actually a pretty good defender while in Memphis doesn't help your argument, but it is, in fact, the truth.
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                          Follow me on Twitter.

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                          • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            Try not to say what I would say, please. When Gasol was in Memphis, I actually had discussion with people about trading for Gasol. The ONLY reason I didn't like it was because I didn't feel he was a center and the Raptors had just drafted Bosh. Gasol lead Memphis to 50, 49 and 45 wins and were a half decent defensive team, in part because of Gasol. As for coaching, he had Hubie Brown and Mike Fratello as his coach in Memphis, two very good coaches who know a thing or two about teaching defense.

                            I realize that saying that Gasol was actually a pretty good defender while in Memphis doesn't help your argument, but it is, in fact, the truth.
                            Lead them there with his offence though. And because they were a shitty defensive team, they would go on to getting swept in every game. You can escape and slip your way into the play-offs through good offence in the regular season, but once in the post season, defence is a little bit more important. Even with 50 wins, going 0-12 isn't too great...

                            Comment


                            • Nick wrote: View Post
                              Haha thanks buddy, appreciate it!.. With all of the criticisms you guys listed, I think allot of them had to do with the presence of CB4 being their number one guy on the depth chart. Its hard to have your top two guys on the depth chart be your PF and C, as want the ball majority of the time to be in the hands of your top depth chart guys. This is why all successful teams have a top guy as a guard (Ideally PG) and a top guy as a big man. I think now that Bargs is the go to big guy he will utilize the paint more, because he has to in order to establish the inside presence that will be necessary to win.
                              No problem HAHA. I think all we need to do is see how it goes this year. Everyone ranting about Bargnani this summer has lead nowhere, and it never will. Even if Bargs sucks this year, what will that make you, one out of many guys who thought he would suck, maybe they should get a prize and one hour of primetime on ESPN explaining to the world how he knew that Bargs was gonna suck. What we say, all this "heated argument" about Bargs is pointless, eventhough it's interesting to see people's views. But what we say does not affect what the board does...

                              Comment


                              • Nick wrote: View Post
                                Didn't say he hated him. I agree with his last segment also, but I think the Raps in general had bad team defence and not just Bargs. He can fill it up with the Best big men in the league, with CB4 gone now, the team dynamics are going to change immensely. Its not even bball knowledge, its just general logic that Bargs is going to have a better year. Thats why I don't get why people are writing him off without seeing what the new Raps product looks like. I agree with Buddahfan, his defence (especially one on one) has gotten better every year. I saw him stand and block Dwight Howard last year when he was trying to cram it. It was a clean block. Of course he wasn't doing this all the time, but how many other centres around the league have the potential (strength) to stand block Howard? He's still got lots of room to grow, but this is the perfect situation for him. Defensive big men aren't a rarity, but to have a centre with a pure stroke like Bargs is.
                                This is exactly what I have been talking about. You remember this one play where Bargnani did something great. Bargnani specializes in this. And post defense has never been Bargnani's problem, has it. It was pretty good when he came into the league. Better than I thought it would be. The problem comes when either someone else has the ball or his man turns and faces the basket. In four years, this has not improved at all.

                                And no one is writing him off. I've said, in fact, that I wouldn't be shocked if he becomes the highest scoring center in the league next season. I certainly think he'll get the shot attempts to be, at least early in the season.

                                And REALLY GOOD defensive big men ARE a rarity. The Raptors have had one in their entire existence. That should tell you something. What other big men are there like Joakim Noah, who can actually change the flow of the game with his defense? He's far more valuable than a big man who can shoot but do very little else well.

                                As for guys 6'10 and taller with a pure stroke in the NBA: Okur, Antawn Jamison, Troy Murphy, Rashard Lewis, Channing Frye, Vladimir Radmanovic and, of course, Dirk, and that's just off the top of my head. Learning how to shoot the 3 well is much easier to do than to learn how to play really good defense. There are far more examples of players who couldn't shoot, but learn to, than bad defensive players who become good ones. There's a reason for that.
                                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                                Follow me on Twitter.

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