View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #7621
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    wow... Minnesota at 9-5?!?!
    Without Love and Rubio, thats IMPRESSIVE.

  2. #7622
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    twolves are really deep, plus AK47 is having a hell of a year. boy was i wrong about him.
    @jerboat

  3. #7623
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Bargs for AK47? Pwease?!

  4. #7624
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Default I agree with Matt52

    I agree with Matt52....i defended Bargnani for over 6 years.....I even felt proud of his 13 game stretch of semi brilliance.....BUT.... I think its time to lessen his role as the top option on this team.

    I Truly believe we will need to make 1 of 2 decisions with BARGS.....

    1) Play him as a lethal 6 man that comes in and puts pressure on the defence with his offence (a la Ginobli for the Spurs Jason Terry did for Dallas, JR SMith did in Denver, or Harden did for OKC)

    2) or Trade him

    When Lowry returns....I would prefer to keep him as a 6th man. Let's be honest, Andrea is a really BAD help defender and rebounder. This is especially important at the beginning and end of games....most GOOD teams wouldn't start such a bad defender or rebonder.....especially when you have an equally bad defender in JOSE and an improving defender (but not good) in Demar.

    I personally would have a guy like ED start.... (hear me out)......he does all the little things like box out, block shots, grab rebounds and sets picks......ED led the team in rebounding last year...... he averages 4.8 rebounds per game in ONLY 14 minutes this year..... Andrea averages 4.4 rebounds per game in 34 minutes this year!!! ED needs more minutes! He's not garbage - he's a serviceable big man with barely any chance to prove himself (and led the team in an important category when he did get some burn - he also got bigger and worked on his shot)

    Rebounds are VERY IMPORTANT (Do I have to explain why?)

    *Bargs plays very well with AMIR and JOSE - this is a no brainer!* Keep BARGS for the weapon we know that he is......we're just not using him right!

    P.S.

    With Ed and JV in the starting rotation we would get sooooo many second chance points....the offence would run through Lowry and Demar as per usual.

    Dont Trade AB just yet.....lets first use him in his rightful role.... Ginobli makes more $$$ than Andrea does he and has no issues coming off the bench, maybe AB wont care as long as we win.

  5. #7625
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I found this in our basket news portal. It's in Lithuanian though, was surprised I couldn't find it in other portals, so I'm not sure about credibility, although it's number 1 source of news.

    Gasol for AB7 and Calderon:
    http://www.basketnews.lt/news-55762-...u-raptors.html

    Lakers' negotiating exchanges with Raptors
    Jonas Valanciunas may lose a place in the Toronto Raptors' starting lineup of five. It was occupied by the Los Angeles Lakers' Pau Gasol moved.

    Season started badly the Lakers are looking for ways to enhance the composition. Los Angeles Club offers Raptors exchange - give Gasol for Andrea Bargnani and Jose Manuel Calderon.

    Raptors looking for the stars around which to develop team play. 32-year-old Spaniard is probably the best player, the Toronto team is now able to get it.

    Raptors management goal - to attract a player, winning an average of 20 points and 10 rebounds.
    Used gtranslate to save time. IGNORE part with JV loosing starting 5 position. Author forgot Gasol is usually playing 4.
    Last edited by RandomGuy; Tue Nov 20th, 2012 at 11:55 AM.

  6. #7626
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote RandomGuy wrote: View Post
    I found this in our basket news portal. It's in Lithuanian though, was surprised I couldn't find it in other portals, so I'm not sure about credibility, although it's number 1 source of news.

    Gasol for AB7 and Calderon:
    http://www.basketnews.lt/news-55762-...u-raptors.html


    Used gtranslate to save time. IGNORE part with JV loosing starting 5 position. Author forgot Gasol is usually playing 4.
    http://sports.gather.com/viewArticle...81474981764902

    I wonder if this is the source?

    The source in this link is Bleacher Report.

    I would put little faith in this.
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  7. #7627
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Matt52 after careful consideration I'm now with you

  8. #7628
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    yea, looks kinda the same :/
    Lol, people up here also call Bargnani Macaroni Hilarious

  9. #7629
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote RandomGuy wrote: View Post
    I found this in our basket news portal. It's in Lithuanian though, was surprised I couldn't find it in other portals, so I'm not sure about credibility, although it's number 1 source of news.

    Gasol for AB7 and Calderon:
    http://www.basketnews.lt/news-55762-...u-raptors.html


    Used gtranslate to save time. IGNORE part with JV loosing starting 5 position. Author forgot Gasol is usually playing 4.
    It's funny, as much as I have supported Bargnani, I was playing around with ESPN's Trade Machine last week using this scenario as a starting point.

    Lakers
    - Calderon would be a fantastic backup (and insurance for Nash), who would fit in wonderfully on their stacked team
    - I actually think Bargnani would be a better fit with the Lakers now than Gasol. They have D12 down low at both ends (especially important as a defensive anchor), a pass-first PG who always makes his teammates better, a true dynamic #1 scorer in Bryant and a lock-down wing defender in MWP. Bargnani's outside-in game would seem to compliment that unit very well, providing outside shooting to spread the floor and a second post-up option. I think his underrated passing game could also flourish when surrounded by those finishers, plus his defense/rebounding wouldn't be nearly the problem next to D12 as it is in Toronto.
    - swapping Gasol for Bargnani would also save the Lakers a lot of money and allow their aging team to get younger, with a future front court of D12/Bargnani

    Toronto
    - I just don't think we need/want Gasol, so I think additional team(s) would be required to return anything of true long-term value for the Raptors.
    - one thought I had was Gasol to Houston, with young players/picks going to Memphis for Gay
    - another thought I had was Gasol to Atlanta, with Smith going to Toronto (though rumor is Atlanta said no to a straight-up Gasol-Smith trade)


    Could be an interesting starting point, but I assume it's likely just fantasy at this point

  10. #7630
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Gasol to Toronto can work and there might actually be some scenarios to make it happen without including Calderon:

    1) http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7lpjrha

    Lakers: Bargnani, Kleiza
    Toronto: Gasol

    2) After December 15th, anyone can be traded who signed as free agent.

    Lakers: Bargnani, Fields
    Toronto: Gasol

    D'Antoni reunion with Fields, Fields g/f would certainly enjoy LA for her career.

    3) After December 15th, any combination of Raptor players that total a minimum of $14M in salary going out.

    4) Numerous 3 team deals out there with main pieces Bargnani to LA and Gasol to Toronto.


    Gasol would certainly be a better fit on this team. It would give the team a low post scorer that has quite possibly never been here, another shot blocker, and play maker off the block.

    Keeping Calderon retains his Bird Rights and playing with a great friend and countryman could be appealing. Keeping Calderon as a backup on a $5M contract would be great.

    Raps would have full MLE to pursue a wing such as Dorrell Wright.

    Gasol is an expiring $19.3M contract in 2013-14.

    I do think #1 or #2 makes Toronto a playoff team.

    ADD: from a LAL perspective they also save $4.25 for every dollar shed in salary. So losing $5M saves them nearly $21.5M ($16.5M in luxury tax and $5M salary prorated).
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Nov 20th, 2012 at 02:39 PM.
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  11. #7631
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Why do we want a 32 yearold Gasol?

    Id rather keep Bargnani.....

  12. #7632
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    did bargs 45% shooting and 40 from 3 with his 7 boards cost us this game too? or was it more horrible 4th quarter defence and 25% as a team from 3?

    i hope he goes to another team with jose in some sort of package deal and does great.

  13. #7633
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Miekenstien, everyone out on the floor, including the coach, deserve the blame for such a fourth quarter collapse..

  14. #7634
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    so thats everyone other than JV, Ed, and Ross.

    its why we want them to play so bad

  15. #7635
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    i understand the overall issue. my point is when he shoots just 36% he is crucified win or lose. tonight he had an alright game. i will give you jv and maybe ross at the 3, expecially against a team like philly. i think he can guard their wings. but i don't think ed and jv can play together unless ross starts shoot 35+ from 3 consistently.

  16. #7636
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i understand the overall issue. my point is when he shoots just 36% he is crucified win or lose. tonight he had an alright game. i will give you jv and maybe ross at the 3, expecially against a team like philly. i think he can guard their wings. but i don't think ed and jv can play together unless ross starts shoot 35+ from 3 consistently.
    But did he have an alright game?

    That is where we differ.

    He had an alright game for Bargnani. He wasn't active on the glass by any stretch and a few rebounds bounced to him. But that is what we expect from Bargnani.

    He didn't take very many forced or ill advised shots. But that is what we expect from Bargnani so when he doesn't it is a pleasant surprise.

    21 shots for 22 points is hardly anything to be excited about but, again, that is what we expect from Bargnani.

    Bargnani had a ho-hum game. He didn't stand out. He certainly didn't take full advantage of his talent and physical tools with a slower or bigger matchup (depending on who was guarding). But that is what we expect from Bargnani.

    Sadly, expectations are likely the issue. So many, myself included, thought the stretch of games he showed as a player is who he should be every night. Sadly that is unrealistic, but that is what we expect from Bargnani due to his skills and talent. Because he is not a guy you can rely on nor is he a guy who can contribute in more ways than one the frustration will be ever present I believe.

    #tradeBargnani
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  17. #7637
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Why do we want a 32 yearold Gasol?

    Id rather keep Bargnani.....
    Because he immediately makes the team better and becomes a huge expiring contract next season.

    Ideally there would be a third team in the equation and the Raps could get a pick or young prospect (I keep dreaming of Motiejunas).

    As for 32 year old Gasol, why do fans want to keep a 31 year old Calderon? There is only a 9 month difference in age.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  18. #7638
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    RaptorsPR ‏@RaptorsPR
    I understand the frustration. No one likes to lose. "@VarandK: @RaptorsPR LOL man I feel for you, Jim. Lot's of mad fans."
    @RaptorsPR It is how the Raps are losing & the shift away from all that was accomplished last season. #tradeBargnani #freeRaptorFans
    A new day, a new reminder.
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  19. #7639
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    But did he have an alright game?

    That is where we differ.

    He had an alright game for Bargnani. He wasn't active on the glass by any stretch and a few rebounds bounced to him. But that is what we expect from Bargnani.

    He didn't take very many forced or ill advised shots. But that is what we expect from Bargnani so when he doesn't it is a pleasant surprise.

    21 shots for 22 points is hardly anything to be excited about but, again, that is what we expect from Bargnani.

    Bargnani had a ho-hum game. He didn't stand out. He certainly didn't take full advantage of his talent and physical tools with a slower or bigger matchup (depending on who was guarding). But that is what we expect from Bargnani.

    Sadly, expectations are likely the issue. So many, myself included, thought the stretch of games he showed as a player is who he should be every night. Sadly that is unrealistic, but that is what we expect from Bargnani due to his skills and talent. Because he is not a guy you can rely on nor is he a guy who can contribute in more ways than one the frustration will be ever present I believe.

    #tradeBargnani
    i would say that 45% for a jump shooter isn't a bad shooting game. looking at his shot chart, he did mix it up pretty well. would still like it to be either a 3 pt shot or within 10 feet of the basket.

    my only issue with bargs right now is how when he is having a particularly ineffective game that klieza isn't thrown in. we have another stretch 4. i would even go so far as starting klieza and see if he can have a hot night and then give him another one and make andrea earn it away.

    i don't want to trade bargs but i think it will be better for him and us. whatever happens the guy is 27 and worrying about his psyche is stupid.

  20. #7640
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    But did he have an alright game?

    That is where we differ.

    He had an alright game for Bargnani. He wasn't active on the glass by any stretch and a few rebounds bounced to him. But that is what we expect from Bargnani.

    He didn't take very many forced or ill advised shots. But that is what we expect from Bargnani so when he doesn't it is a pleasant surprise.

    21 shots for 22 points is hardly anything to be excited about but, again, that is what we expect from Bargnani.

    Bargnani had a ho-hum game. He didn't stand out. He certainly didn't take full advantage of his talent and physical tools with a slower or bigger matchup (depending on who was guarding). But that is what we expect from Bargnani.

    Sadly, expectations are likely the issue. So many, myself included, thought the stretch of games he showed as a player is who he should be every night. Sadly that is unrealistic, but that is what we expect from Bargnani due to his skills and talent. Because he is not a guy you can rely on nor is he a guy who can contribute in more ways than one the frustration will be ever present I believe.

    #tradeBargnani
    Absolutely they are.

    This organization expects Bargnani to be a significant core player leading to a successful team.

    Fans expect Bargnani to shoot inefficiently, defend poorly and hardly rebound - so when he shoots an average to poor efficiency and gets 7 whole rebounds (in 40 minutes no less). Thats 'alright'.

    Team has too high of expectations placed on him - fans too low.

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