View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #8261
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Seriously, if Chicago was that desperate to cut him, Toronto could just claim him for pennies and THEN trade/amnesty Bargnani.
    & that is what many teams around the NBA are prob. waiting for... why give up alot of talent for a guy who could be amnestied in the summer... Chi said today that they wont amnesty boozer but i think thats just a smoke screen, there trying to move him & if they said anything else theyd def not get any offers

  2. #8262
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Good take on the Bargnani/Boozer rumor from Tim Chisholm @ TSN...

    Link: http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=415515

  3. #8263
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    but it's a battle of opinion... nobody is ever right in a battle of opinion...
    I'm always right in a battle of opinions

  4. #8264
    Raptors Republic Starter matt's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    & that is what many teams around the NBA are prob. waiting for... why give up alot of talent for a guy who could be amnestied in the summer... Chi said today that they wont amnesty boozer but i think thats just a smoke screen, there trying to move him & if they said anything else theyd def not get any offers
    Who said were giving up talent? its Bargnani were talking about right?

  5. #8265
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Hopefully we can put the Boozer rumors to rest. I'm still fully open to trading Bargnani, but after sleeping on this one, I'm personally against trading Bargnani for Boozer (even if it did return Teague and/or a mid-late 1st round pick as well).

    Ideally, this indicates that there is still interest in Bargnani around the league and prompts teams to get their competitive offers into BC ASAP!
    I think it's a very unique situation though. I don't think you can get a player of Boozer's caliber for Bargnani unless that team is desperately trying to make a cost cutting move. Not unlike the Gay trade, except that Jose was an expiring contract and Ed was an intriguing young prospect. Andrea Bargnani is neither. As flawed (not to mention douche-y) as Boozer is, he's been consistent throughout his career and there just aren't a lot of guys out there like that who are available.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  6. #8266
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I think it's a very unique situation though. I don't think you can get a player of Boozer's caliber for Bargnani unless that team is desperately trying to make a cost cutting move. Not unlike the Gay trade, except that Jose was an expiring contract and Ed was an intriguing young prospect. Andrea Bargnani is neither. As flawed (not to mention douche-y) as Boozer is, he's been consistent throughout his career and there just aren't a lot of guys out there like that who are available.
    That's what I think too. If the Bulls offer us Boozer for Bargnani, I don't see why the hell in the world we should not accept it. Boozer can score and rebound, he's been an all star, he's been on winning teams and it's not like he was not playing good right now. And he just turned 31. We should accept this trade. I don't see what we could get better than Boozer. I know he got a huge contract... So what? What are we going to get anyway via free agency? Josh Smith? Al Jefferson? Yeah, you can dream folks. Also, Lowry won't ask for 20M$ a year when comes the time to re-sign him.

    Not only this trade would help the team, but it would finally officially end an era (Bosh, Calderon and Bargnani) and start a fresh, positive one.

  7. #8267
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I think it's a very unique situation though. I don't think you can get a player of Boozer's caliber for Bargnani unless that team is desperately trying to make a cost cutting move. Not unlike the Gay trade, except that Jose was an expiring contract and Ed was an intriguing young prospect. Andrea Bargnani is neither. As flawed (not to mention douche-y) as Boozer is, he's been consistent throughout his career and there just aren't a lot of guys out there like that who are available.
    I understand that, but for me there are a couple issues with this proposed deal that I'm not satisfied with. First, I've always felt that Boozer was overrated. Second, he's way older than Bargnani, he's paid way more money and I really don't think he's much better. Third, Chicago is more interested about saving money this season (as opposed to long-term savings, like Memphis), so not only does Toronto take on a bigger long-term financial burden, but it seems like Chicago isn't willing to let us match upfront salary, which will put an even bigger financial noose around the Raptors neck.

    As I said in an earlier post, if the Raps were able to dump Kleiza's salary and get a 1st round pick, that would be enough sweetener for me to consider it. However, the proposed trade of Bargnani/Lucas for Boozer/Robinson isn't worth it for me. I'd rather just keep Bargnani into the offseason and amnesty Kleiza.

  8. #8268
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    Just see it this way, we fleeced the Bulls back in the days when we give them Davis and JYD in exchange of Marshall and J.Rose and the rest is history, we made the playoff while Marshall had his career best of hitting 12 3-pointers. If we can flip Bargs + Fields + fillers (possibly Lucas or Anderson) for Boozer + Hinrich. Then that would be a good season trade for us. Boozer is on another level compare to Bargs, he shoots and rebounds, just his contract expires in two years but so what, if we can get at least two years of production out of Booz, then we are golden. Hinrich is the exact backup point guard we need, a good floor general in his early days.
    We never made the playoffs with Marshall and Rose.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  9. #8269
    Raptors Republic Rookie knowledgep's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    And this is why guys don't want to stay in Toronto.
    look at Bargnani's accomplishments as a player, should he stay? do fans not have a right as a paying consumer to express their opinion after several years of mediocrity?

  10. #8270
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    many people have been horrified by the visual picture of the rainforest crotch... what can i say.... i'm very liberal and lazy about the manscaping... and drink far too much

    i've backed out of this argument... not because i believe im wrong and conceding defeat, or that the pro-booing crowd is wrong... but it's a battle of opinion...

    nobody is ever right in a battle of opinion...

    all that is going to come of it is people making wild assumptions about the people they're arguing against just to prove their points...

    the pro-booing crowd is going to assume the anti-booing crowd are all poor kids who can't afford tickets and aren't investing their own hard earned money into the raptors, so they shouldn't complain...

    the anti-booing crowd is going to assume the pro-booers are a bunch of douche bags, who wouldn't give up their seat to an old lady on the subway because they paid their god damn $3 and have a right to sit down, and its not their responsibility that the chick decided to get old and crippled..

    and none of that is true... i know i have a credit card debt that refuses to go away because i keep dumping more money into the raps... and i know not everyone who supports booing is a dick...

    it isn't going to go anywhere positive...

    so shut up and talk about my partially visible pubes... it's a much more constructive discussion
    Very well put into perspective, and thanks for the added big chuckles.

  11. #8271
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I understand that, but for me there are a couple issues with this proposed deal that I'm not satisfied with. First, I've always felt that Boozer was overrated. Second, he's way older than Bargnani, he's paid way more money and I really don't think he's much better. Third, Chicago is more interested about saving money this season (as opposed to long-term savings, like Memphis), so not only does Toronto take on a bigger long-term financial burden, but it seems like Chicago isn't willing to let us match upfront salary, which will put an even bigger financial noose around the Raptors neck.

    As I said in an earlier post, if the Raps were able to dump Kleiza's salary and get a 1st round pick, that would be enough sweetener for me to consider it. However, the proposed trade of Bargnani/Lucas for Boozer/Robinson isn't worth it for me. I'd rather just keep Bargnani into the offseason and amnesty Kleiza.
    Personally for me Boozer would be a 10 to Bargnani's 3. Not that he's a 10/10 player.. I'm just using the 10 for ratio sakes.

    But I do understand if you see him as not a huge upgrade then yes it's a bad deal. Financially this is a bad trade for Toronto. I just think the talent coming in.. perhaps talent is a poor choice of words because Bargnani is very talented but just sucks in areas you want him to be good at. So I'd say in terms of non-$ value to the team, I think Boozer is waaaaaay better. And I think that outweighs the money factor.

    The other part is this. The Lowry trade, and the Gay trade signal a window in which we need to succeed. And as the team stands now, it will not. So another deal needs to be done here and the opportunity to do so will dwindle. Things happen, kind of like Gasol getting hurt, Bargnani could get hurt again. Things which are out of our control.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  12. #8272
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aph7nk5

    I'm not big on Boozer but if we take on his salary we should be able to take back a player of value as well. Above is a trade that would make us competitive today but also pick up a player for the future.

    Why Wolves do it:
    With a capable change of pace point guard in Barea capable of spelling Rubio they don't need to pay 4 million to Ridnour as they will need space to resign Pek. Amundson is unhappy with his current role and lack of PT. They get Anderson to help with 3 point shooting and can fill the void of Roy for remainder of season. Gray is just a big body on a reasonable deal to back up Pek.

    Why Bulls do it:
    Get out of Boozers gigantic contract. They add a big who can spread the floor for Rose when he's back and they already have great rebounding players in Noah, Gibson and Deng to compensate for Dre. Losing Butler hurts but it's the price for unloading that big of a deal. Fields can back up both wing positions.

    Why Raptors do it:
    Land much need post presence and upgrade at 4 position, add much needed capable back up PG, young defensive minded wing and an energy big better then Acy.

    Lowry/Ridnour/JL3
    Demar/Ross
    Gay/Butler/Kleiza
    Boozer/Amir/Amundson/Acy
    JV

    Center position is left weak but not as if it was a position of strength currently constructed. Amnesty Kleiza in the summer and look to sign a veteran center like Dalembert (best case scenario), Joel Anthony, Kurt Thomas or Collins.

  13. #8273
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I don't have access to a computer and refuse to use the trade machine with my iPhone, but someone work out a trade where Chicago gets Bargs and Demar while we get Boozer, Butler and a pick.

  14. #8274
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Personally for me Boozer would be a 10 to Bargnani's 3. Not that he's a 10/10 player.. I'm just using the 10 for ratio sakes.

    But I do understand if you see him as not a huge upgrade then yes it's a bad deal. Financially this is a bad trade for Toronto. I just think the talent coming in.. perhaps talent is a poor choice of words because Bargnani is very talented but just sucks in areas you want him to be good at. So I'd say in terms of non-$ value to the team, I think Boozer is waaaaaay better. And I think that outweighs the money factor.

    The other part is this. The Lowry trade, and the Gay trade signal a window in which we need to succeed. And as the team stands now, it will not. So another deal needs to be done here and the opportunity to do so will dwindle. Things happen, kind of like Gasol getting hurt, Bargnani could get hurt again. Things which are out of our control.
    Boozer could get hurt too, like how he is already battling a bum ham-string. Older, slower, more expensive and a bigger injury risk? No deal.

  15. #8275
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Personally for me Boozer would be a 10 to Bargnani's 3. Not that he's a 10/10 player.. I'm just using the 10 for ratio sakes.

    But I do understand if you see him as not a huge upgrade then yes it's a bad deal. Financially this is a bad trade for Toronto. I just think the talent coming in.. perhaps talent is a poor choice of words because Bargnani is very talented but just sucks in areas you want him to be good at. So I'd say in terms of non-$ value to the team, I think Boozer is waaaaaay better. And I think that outweighs the money factor.

    The other part is this. The Lowry trade, and the Gay trade signal a window in which we need to succeed. And as the team stands now, it will not. So another deal needs to be done here and the opportunity to do so will dwindle. Things happen, kind of like Gasol getting hurt, Bargnani could get hurt again. Things which are out of our control.
    With regards to the first bolded part, I suppose we'll never agree. I do agree that the Raps probably need a traditional starting PF, who relies more on post-ups and banging down low. However, I just don't like Boozer, despite the fact that he fits the desired style of play.

    As for the second part, I would argue that your point is more reason NOT to trade for Boozer. Gay and Lowry are both 26, meaning they will have a good 5-7 years in their prime, to grow with the team's young core. Boozer is 31, giving the team a much shorter window of opportunity to 'win now', with no chance he's part of the team's long-term core (I feel the same way about Gasol).

  16. #8276
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    BOO heinz57!

    BOOOOO!
    your pal,
    ebrian

  17. #8277
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    awful awful trade.
    You were one of the fans that didint like Rudy gay either. Apparently "his contract was to high". Boozer would be awesome for us!

    I can stand people complaining about the contract price. if Rogers wants to spend ... let em' spend. I just wqant a solid product on the court. I dont doubt that pau gasol was our first choice but when he went down we had to go to plan B.

  18. #8278
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    A week ago people wanted to trade Bargnani for a bag of chip... now they dont want boozer. Im all for the trade, just as I was for the Gay trade. We know how people around here changed their tune on the last trade after 1 game. I anticipate the fans the dislike the trade will completely flip their stance after a few games. Our fans are pretty clueless, they worry about spending dollars that they dont own. Some of our fans are like the Memphis grizzlies owners.

  19. #8279
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    A week ago people wanted to trade Bargnani for a bag of chip... now they dont want boozer. Im all for the trade, just as I was for the Gay trade. We know how people around here changed their tune on the last trade after 1 game. I anticipate the fans the dislike the trade will completely flip their stance after a few games. Our fans are pretty clueless, they worry about spending dollars that they dont own. Some of our fans are like the Memphis grizzlies owners.
    A bag of chips doesn't cost $16M per season each of the next 2 years.

    A bag of chips wouldn't make the Raptors a luxury tax paying team.

    A bag of chips wouldn't destroy the already limited financial flexibility of the franchise over the next 2.5 seasons.

    A bag of chips allows the Raps to make subsequent roster moves and still have all exceptions availble in the offseason.

  20. #8280
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    A week ago people wanted to trade Bargnani for a bag of chip... now they dont want boozer. Im all for the trade, just as I was for the Gay trade. We know how people around here changed their tune on the last trade after 1 game. I anticipate the fans the dislike the trade will completely flip their stance after a few games. Our fans are pretty clueless, they worry about spending dollars that they dont own. Some of our fans are like the Memphis grizzlies owners.
    i dont think anyone wanted a 15million dollar bag of chips! LOL my biggest concern with Boozer is his health, also unless we can dump some other ugly contracts we own its going to cripple our ability at add any other top talent.. & i dont think Boozer is anywere near Top Talent... he good not good enough

    seems CalgaryRapsFan beat me to it! LOL

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