View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #8401
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote MikeToronto wrote: View Post
    Why do you guys consider Ilyasova a small forward? With his ability to rebound and shoot, I can easily see him playing 4 on a regular basis, especially in today's NBA of smaller, more mobile front court players. Yes, he doesn't have a well-developed back-to-the-basket game, but what of it?
    I've wondered that too. Because of how swift on his feet he is, he causes lots of mismatches on offense especially at the 4 spot. Defensively, I have no concerns really. He's a solid one-on-one defender. I admit I want a low post scorer right now, but at what price? I'd rather Ersan's longer contract than Boozer's hefty one, and scoring isn't necessarily the issue at the moment rather than finding ways in closing out 4th quarters. Once Lowry and company mesh more with Gay, those late game deficiencies will hopefully be a thing of the past. We'll need Ersan's defense more than will need his offense down the road.

  2. #8402
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I would rather let AJ start than go after him. We already have way too many perimeter scoring.

  3. #8403
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    No thanks. I'd rather keep Bargnani than trade for Ilyasova.
    this is one of those times were id have to agree with keeping bargs.. Boozer deal is another BIG NO!.

  4. #8404
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I don't know much about Ilyasova outside of the fact he isn't having a very good season. He's a pretty great rebounder though isn't he?

  5. #8405
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Ridnour and D Williams is still on the table.

  6. #8406
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    ESPN lists him as a SF. That is why I think.

    Yahoo! lists him as a forward and in fantasy ball he is a SF/PF. RotoWorld has him as a forward.

    I think "Forward" is appropriate. As you mention the game is getting smaller and more mobile. Ilyasova rebounds like a PF and shoots like a SF. Honestly, I have not seen enough of his defense to make an informed opinion.

    For all the love Millsap gets (and I love him too), if you are looking at offensive/defensive ratings:

    Player/OffRtg/DefRtg

    Millsap/113/104
    Ilyasova/113/103


    I would be excited about Ilyasova. This is a guy who shoots near 50% on 3's over the last few months. That is Bargnani on steroids.... plus he rebounds so now we have Bargnani on 'roids and HGH.
    What about defensively?

  7. #8407
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Of all the Bargnani rumors, Gasol is the only one I'd consider, because of his skillset and contract. I really don't want Boozer (contract is too big for too long) or Ilyasova (too much of a forward tweener).

    One thing I like about Bargnani off the bench is that he can defend either the C or PF spot, allowing the Raps to run out big lineups, traditional lineups or small lineups. I don't think Ilyasova provides the same degree of lineup flexibility.
    Well the thing about Gasol is that his contract expires next year. So if he decides he doesn't to stay with the team, in pursuit of a better team that actually has a legit chance at the championship, then Gasol was basically only a 1.5 year rental. We would have to trade him for a PF and some solid role players next season since his expiring contract would be a good trade chip. The problem I have with trading Gasol next year (if we trade for him) is that we would break up any starting line-up chemistry that we would develop that season. If he decides to say, then all the better.

  8. #8408
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Ridnour and D Williams is still on the table.
    No it isn't. There are no rumors what so ever that the Wolves are even remotely interested in Bargnani, so enough with the Ridnour/Williams trades.

    "If you believe Toronto general manager Bryan Colangelo, multiple teams are keeping close tabs on Raptors forward Andrea Bargnani. Out since mid-December with a right elbow injury, he's expected back before the trade deadline. While Colangelo could be telling the truth, two league sources said they haven't heard the Wolves attached to such a scenario. One scoffed at the mere thought of Bargnani in Minnesota. The other didn't totally dismiss it. The former 2006 No. 1 overall pick has two years and $23 million left on his contract after this season"

    Link: http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/T...M_a_year020113

  9. #8409
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Wasnt saying it was reported just saying those guys are on the trading block.

  10. #8410
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Wasnt saying it was reported just saying those guys are on the trading block.
    Trading block =/= coming to Toronto. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Ridnour and Williams as a package is probably not coming to Toronto..

  11. #8411
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    What about defensively?
    I can't pretend to say I've seen him a lot. But I have seen him play us and be engaged and absolutely disrupt guys like Bargs and Ed. I don't know what that means, but I think it means that he can guard most modern PFs who can't just physically dominate you. I honestly believe that in terms of realism, Ilyasova is one of the absolute better options moving forward.

    A post player liek Gasol, or even a lesser one like Gortat or Pekovic, would help now, and alleviate pressure for JV. But after next season, we'd still be stuck need a stretch 4. I don't see how Bargs turns into one other than Ilyasova. Utah won't want him. Even in the offseason, Demar might not be nearly enough to sign and trade for Millsap, and we might not have other pieces Utah wants, or that we can afford to give up without compromising the roster.

    Ilyasova shoots lights out from 3, especially in spot up situations, which next to a C who projects to play in the low-mid post and a bunch of slashing wings is perfect. He doesn't need the ball in his hands. He can rebound like a PF, as Matt said, and shoot like a SF. He would give us crazy versatility. One small ball lineup could be JV, Amir, Ilyasova, Gay and Lowry. The SG would be a modest 6'8'', and SF a modest 6'10''.

  12. #8412
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    Ilyasova has a lot of length and is very good shooter ... i'd prefer giving him SF minutes than Alan Anderson using them to jack up ill-advised shots. If they threw in a pick it may be something to consider. That contract scares people away.

    Why not go after Phoenix's Gortat+Marshall for Bargnani? We get the physical presence we want in Gortat and a young promising pass-first backup point guard. Gortat has fallen out of place and wants out as well.

  13. #8413
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    Quote changv10 wrote: View Post
    Ilyasova has a lot of length and is very good shooter ... i'd prefer giving him SF minutes than Alan Anderson using them to jack up ill-advised shots. If they threw in a pick it may be something to consider. That contract scares people away.

    Why not go after Phoenix's Gortat+Marshall for Bargnani? We get the physical presence we want in Gortat and a young promising pass-first backup point guard. Gortat has fallen out of place and wants out as well.
    Well Gortat is mostly a center. Not a PF. I much rather not have Gortat taking precious minutes away from JV and he most seriously doesn't want to be a backup center to a rookie, so no thank you!

  14. #8414
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I would be excited about Ilyasova. This is a guy who shoots near 50% on 3's over the last few months. That is Bargnani on steroids.... plus he rebounds so now we have Bargnani on 'roids and HGH.
    that's what I came to say. Plus his contract is cheaper than bargs - granted it's two years longer but his last year is a Team Option -- so he could be trade bait for the last two years of his contract

  15. #8415
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Default Why Trade Bargnani

    I'll start off by giving the one big reason - for some - that Andrea should be traded, no questions asked.

    "I hate this guy with every living atom in my f*#king body."

    .

    Now ... as to why not:

    1) Potential as 6th man, and ability to fill in as the Starter. A further upside (regarding AB), is the potential to realize what it takes, in getting to the next level. Of course, being the Starting PF again would depend on a consistent set of stats to justify it. Otherwise, the 6th man role could suit him and the Raptors, very nicely.

    Note: The Italian team's Coach locked into this much earlier then the Raptors, and had success with it. His strategy was to have Andrea come in around the 6 minute mark, and then play him major minutes after that.

    2) Rudy Gay changes the dynamics of this team, including Demar, and especially Bargnani. AB's effectiveness turns from being the Go-To guy that attracted double teams, to the Go-To off the Bench. In the game against N.O., Andrea would have helped out the struggling Bench.

    3) Future Value. I know this sounds like a "potential" discussion, but there is value in Andrea. For a number of reasons.
    a) 6th man role - as explained above
    b) Amnesty will continue to be there, and can be used at the beginning of ANY season.
    c) Large enough contract that it can be used to acquire another large contract (as Raps did with Rudy). A player paid too much, but who ranks amongst the higher levels of talent [This has been the Lakers (and a few others) secret to success.

    .

  16. #8416
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I really think this would be a very underrated move....I think it would've been a good move before the Gay trade, and now I think it's an even better one.

    *one underrated thing: we'd give up a player we want to be rid of who's not in future plans and nothing else. we would have no money in the offseason anyway, so now we can use exceptions exactly for the types of players they're for...signing a backup PG, and possibly another big body, a 3rd 7 footer to go with JV and Gray, whether he's better or worse than Gray.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Feb 11th, 2013 at 04:31 PM.

  17. #8417
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    @RaptorsMR doing his best to scare Raptor fans everywhere.
    Scare some. Wonderment for others.

    .

  18. #8418
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I really think this would be a very underrated move....I think it would've been a good move before the Gay trade, and now I think it's an even better one.
    Ok....you guys are starting to sell me on Ilyasova (assuming he can handle the 4 full time).

    But have we analyzed this deal from Milwaukee's perspective? Why would they want Bargnani's contract...unless shedding a year of guaranteed cash means that much to them.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  19. #8419
    Raptors Republic Rookie MikeToronto's Avatar
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    Yep, Ilyasova can indeed be a very effective four in this league. And unless you believe wholeheartedly that this recent incarnation of Andrea Bargnani is here to stay, you grab that deal and run away with it. Perhaps even if you do, you run with it anyway.

  20. #8420
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    ESPN lists him as a SF. That is why I think.

    Yahoo! lists him as a forward and in fantasy ball he is a SF/PF. RotoWorld has him as a forward.

    I think "Forward" is appropriate. As you mention the game is getting smaller and more mobile. Ilyasova rebounds like a PF and shoots like a SF. Honestly, I have not seen enough of his defense to make an informed opinion.

    For all the love Millsap gets (and I love him too), if you are looking at offensive/defensive ratings:

    Player/OffRtg/DefRtg

    Millsap/113/104
    Ilyasova/113/103


    I would be excited about Ilyasova. This is a guy who shoots near 50% on 3's over the last few months. That is Bargnani on steroids.... plus he rebounds so now we have Bargnani on 'roids and HGH.
    I never realized how close Ilyasova is to Millsap in stats (including advanced stats). Really surprised me actually.

    I'm actually all for Ersan now. Would have said no before you pointed this out. He is excellent production for his contract. Millsap would be at least worth $11M and that's not even a given considering he's a free agent.

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